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Comment by egberts1 | Hacker News Reader

Even WireGuard is also impacted on iOS.

The author of WireGuard lamented that certain network pathway must be preserved for existing Apple infrastructure before WireGuard app can be approved and made available by Apple App Store.

So, there is no easy way to catalogue what kind of cellular data traffic unless we magically ran a network capture (WireSHARK) at cell tower level or root our iOS phone.

I do do know for iOS phones that cellular data traffic is drastically different than LAN-based WiFi traffic.

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Man, it sure would be nice if you could just... install an app without Apple's permission. Sure seems like they aren't looking out for your privacy or safety, in this situation.

That would have no effect on the situation being described.

A side loaded app would still be beholden to the OS networking stack.

Who is “you”?

Multiply “you” by all possible “yous”, multiplied by downsides of “just install an app” not vetted, for those “yous”. What’s the net effect on total privacy or safety of all yous out there?

If “you” are here on HN, odds are you are a vanishingly small part of the venn diagram of yous that should inform an iPhone PdM’s thinking on this issue.

EXCEPT, of course, for the NPS (net promotor score) / influencer aspect of you. Because we’re still in an era where the IT person in a circle causes others to make choices. HN users still have a disproportionate voice in tech trend setting.

But, as that person, you also have a responsibility to advise in well considered ways that help the person being advised, not yourself. As engineers, our entire purpose is to pay a blood/sweat/tears price to make technology accessible and useful to non-engineers.

You know what to do. They don’t. This device is for them.

Well, Android has been successful for years now with a model where it is possible to sideload an APK on any device, but it's buried sufficiently deep that the people who shouldn't be using it can't find it.

Why not replicate that (IMO) success?

Because if I understand GP correctly, they are talking about the ability for devs and white hats to install software which enables debugging and logging so it becomes much easier to find stuff like this?

> Why not replicate that (IMO) success?

We have two models. People who like one can choose that. People who don’t can choose this. Sometimes solutions have multiple equilibria.

I agree. Apple should implement both models, and then you can choose for yourself. No downside!

> No downside!

Of course there is. Facebook and Oracle would immediately have some mandatory spyware you’d need to install. Curtailing developers’ freedom is a favourable choice for many consumers. Apple reflects that market pressure. (Android, its inverse.)

It's not like they don't already have that power, they can just force you to use an Android phone for work.

iOS has supported tcpdump for end users since...I can't remember, maybe iOS 4?

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/network/recording_...

I actually used that but its filter selection of packets is also unknown.

It said so in the article you commented on:

    iOS doesn’t let you record a packet trace directly.

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