San Marino: The World’s Oldest Republic (2011) | Hacker News Reader

San Marino: The World’s Oldest Republic (2011)

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I'm curious if someone here is a bigger history nerd than me and might be able to help me out:

The claim that San Marino is the world's oldest Republic links to a Wikipedia list which cites 301 as its transition date to Republic, however digging deeper that seems to be the founding date of the settlement of San Marino, with the earliest date relating to a Republic I could find being 1243 (the establishment of the Captains Reagent as the heads of state).

Does anyone know more about the transition to republic? 1243 would still make it several centuries older than any other extant Republic, but significantly shorter lived than my personal favourite the Republic of Venice (697-1797, 1100 years of uninterrupted Republic).

Sounds like a good one for r/askhistorians.

San Marino is one of the most beautiful places in Europe. Forget about the article and google yourself some pictures taken from San Marino.

For some special nerd bonus, have a look at the Cosplay/Comic Conference: https://www.sanmarinocomics.com/

This fair is held in the San Marino castle and this is one of the most intriguing atmospheres I have every experienced, whether you like Cosplay or not. I accidentally ran into the event a couple of years ago.

Another bonus tip: San Marino is near Rimini as well as Venice. Party and culture meet again.

> San Marino is one of the most beautiful places in Europe.

there are a lot of beautiful places in Europe, it's a high bar, are you sure San Marino is the pinnacle?

> Forget about the article and google yourself some pictures taken from San Marino.

the article is saying something quite unique about a facet of San Marino that is interesting, and you're claiming that the pictures of San Marino are more important than that?

I dunno, not picking on you, but I wish HN could digest posts in the spirit in which they're offered up, instead of always switching to some narrow parochial view that is orthogonal, or diametrically oppposed,essentially saying "don't post what you're saying, post what we already know, it's better."

Isn't that exactly what your doing in this comment?

isn't what i'm exactly doing, I have no idea what you are talking about? I was critiquing a comment that said "completely ignore what this post says". If you don't like what a post says, then skip it and don't comment.

Saying "this historically important place on a geopolitical basis is very pretty, so forget the geopolitical aspects and just look at pictures of it" I think is a weak and worthless thing to say.

I'm not sure what you disagree with. Yes, I understand snowflakes not only don't like to be criticized, they can't stand to see somebody else criticized either. But where I stand, ignoring the substance of what somebody says and directing attention to something insubtantial is MORE DISPRESPECTFUL than saying to somebody's face "I don't like what you just said."

> this historically important place on a geopolitical

It’s not really that important, though. Never was, which might be the main reason it is the “world’s oldest republic”.

so, you're saying, OP shouldn't have posted this interesting piece of history, but rather people should look at pretty pictures of San Marino? Gotta say that's pretty vapid.

every place in Europe or one of its colonies which at some time took steps to break out of the traditional dynastic power structures was contributing to the advance of Western political philosophy and thought. But oooh, look at the pretty pictures!

"So-called practitioners of Analytical Philosophy are so busy continuously cleaning their glasses that they never wear them."

"The culinary creation on the dish was such a structural marvel of meanings that I refrained from eating it."

...Calls to experience.

(The poster never said that the article should not have been submitted. On the contrary, the poster "doubled down".)

Is there some reason you think most people would be incapable of both reading the article and looking at the “pretty” pictures?

> every place in Europe … which took steps to break out of the traditional dynastic power structures was contributing to the advance of Western political philosophy and thought

That is debatable and not all obvious. Care to somehow substantiate this claim?

You seem to have difficulties in understanding rhetoric: the spirit of the original post is clearly: "do not forget to get some direct enjoyment - it's worth it". Which again is not literal, so either you try and exercise some "understanding as approaching", or you will systematically miss in communication.

To some cultures enjoyment is paramount. It enriches you. It is nourishment.

The mandate towards the "«strongest plausible interpretation»" is in the guidelines: it comes implicitly with the exercise of communication, here it comes with a clause for heightened awareness.

Edit: more plainly: make sure (as a very general rule) you understood posts before reacting - and in case of doubt, ask.

> San Marino is one of the most beautiful places in Europe.

a tad overstated :)

> San Marino is near Rimini as well as Venice

San Marino is near Rimini, but NOT near Venice!

San Marino is "near" to Venice in the sense that Baltimore is "near" to New York. It's a fun place to visit, and its towers are striking, but I'd hardly call it the most beautiful place in the world: it is largely a kitchy land of tourist traps, factory outlets, and the "Museum of Torture".

Is that true for the entire country? The article seemed to imply that is how the historic town is and it's almost by design, so the rest of the country doesn't have that. I guess that stuff has spread everywhere in the interim?

There's a little bit of cute countryside on the back side of the mountain, but otherwise, yes, it's true for the entire country. Look, San Marino is barely 4 miles across.

Manhattan is only 3 miles across and you can find tons of stores and places that aren't just tourist tchotchkes. It sounds like it's wose than Andorra which from most descriptions is a giant parking lot with lots of duty free shopping.

The beauty and diversity of Europe is unbelievable. I wish I could travel more.

Confirmed: I know regions in which marvels are found municipality by municipality - meaning, you go in places with the most humble, unpromising names, random places on the map, and you get shocked by seeing monuments (and resources) you would not have expected. It's not just rhetoric. You do not need to go to "Matera" or "Mont St Michel": in some areas you can just pick a random village - or its outskirts - one may suspect could have been there "just to group some houses". "What is this tower doing here? That sanctuary - and in the middle of nowhere?!"

And founded by a Croatian... Wonderful..

Recent news is that San Marino and a Spanish real estate billionaire are teaming up to create a special economic zone [0]. (source is in Italian)

[0]: https://giornalesm.com/san-marino-david-oddone-stamane-sul-c...

The article seems interesting but too much chat about the present. The challenges from 300 ad to now and how can it survive. Why Italian not known for its kindness all these time (Axis …) tolerate. Is it part of UN (guess no putin yet if Italy)?

It is the history and politics we should talk more.

Pictures. We have lots of beautiful places and tourist places … I pass.

There hasn't been much of an "Italy" until about the time the USA got a second coast. And the warfare that lead to it happened mostly under the general banner of independence, so an already-independent republic failed to register as an enemy. The unification wasn't a goal, it was a sacrifice taken to have a better chance at independence.

San Marino is harmless, on the top of a giant rock which is almost impossible to conquer by force, and in a position of no strategic importance. So no one has ever been interested in grabbing it.

However, that does not mean that it is allowed to do whatever it wants. In the 50s, Italy surrounded it with tanks and forced a regime change when San Marino had started leaning dangerously towards the Soviet block.

Probably because of this precedent, recently San Marino has made a diplomatic U-turn with Russia: after decades of very good relationships (I personally saw Lavrov there once, shops have labels in Russian, etc) after the invasion of Ukraine it sided with the west and ended on the list of countries hostile to Russia.

Also, it was a black-listed tax haven which was tolerated by Italy until it went too far; then the Finance minister of Italy surrounded the republic with Guardia di Finanza (finance police)... San Marino has no access to the sea (despite being very near to it), no airport (besides a tiny airfield), and only borders with Italy, so it has very limited leeway.

And yes, it is a member of the UN (not of the EU though).

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