Hacker News Reader

Hacker News

Comment by ok_dad | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

ok_dad

> It's just like teflon in basically every way.

Hopefully not in the bad ways? Is the "ceramic coating" proven to not be harmful?

View on HN

Ceramic itself is safe. Ultimately for a coating, the safety depends on what's underneath if/when it wears through.

Is it really ceramic or something they call "ceramic" that has other additives like a metamaterial?

In materials science "ceramic" means basically any inorganic, nonmetallic solid: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Fundamental_aspects_o.... This includes perfectly safe materials like alumina, mullite, and silicon nitride, as well as things you definitely do not want in your food like lead oxide, lead zirconate titanate, barium titanate, uranium oxide, and beryllia.

So it is not accurate to say, "Ceramic itself is safe".

(I have no idea what is used in the surfaces of "ceramic" pans but it is unlikely to be any of the substances I listed above; they all have high surface energy.)

Ceramics can be glazed with lead. It can also end up in ceramics that are used in cookware[1].

[1] https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/12/08/563808879/ca...

What bad ways? Teflon is not harmful. Teflon is not the same as PFAS, and Teflon cookware does not leech any PFAS into food. See my other reply: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32515717

And to answer your question, ceramics sometimes have heavy metals to get bright colors (cadmium mostly). Make sure to buy from a reputable manufacturer.

My Teflon pans are all slightly scratched. When they scratch some material comes loose and is removed from the pan.

Where is that material?

You ate it, and it won't hurt you in the slightest. Teflon is utterly inert in the body.

Thanks, I guess my point is more like: how do we know this new "ceramic" coating (if it is some metamaterial) is better than Teflon for the environment from the cradle to the grave? Are there worse risks we don't know about?

I would prefer to study and perfect our manufacturing and use of Teflon if there is no alternative to it that is much safer.

Teflon is certainly a perfluoroalkyl substance but it is perfectly safe as long as you aren't thermally decomposing it at temperatures that are too hot to cook at.

You probably know what you are talking about but the lack of research doesn't fill me with confidence [1]:

> However, at temperatures above 500°F (260°C), Teflon coatings on nonstick cookware start to break down, releasing toxic chemicals into the air. [...] Polymer fume fever consists of temporary, flu-like symptoms such as chills, fever, headache, and body aches. The onset occurs after 4–10 hours of exposure, and the condition usually resolves within 12–48 hours.

[1] https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/nonstick-cookware-safet...

Maybe you don't realize how hot 500F is - your oven maxes out at 450. At 500 everything in the plan is black charcoal. Any oil in the pan caught fire.

Think you mean smoking. Plenty of oils have flash points above 500F and a few have smoke points over 500

Turning my burner up to max my carbon steel wok has gotten up to 700. Before I knew better, I had an old non-stick wok and on the first use the coating came off at high temperatures. Never actually cooked in it, threw it out and went for the carbon steel instead.

Many ovens have their top temp at 550F. And when the broiler is on, it can go well above that (although in a smaller more focused area).

You keep repeating this "ovens don't go to 500F" claim all over the thread and it is just wrong. Looking at lowes.com, around half their oven inventory has a self cleaning option, requiring the oven to be able to get to that high temperature. Even a cheap electric oven will often have a self cleaning feature and a max temp above 500F.

What evidence do you have for this claim?

Reply on news.ycombinator.com