Ask HN: Sold a 1K item on eBay; chargeback occurred–eBay collections, now what? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Sold a 1K item on eBay; chargeback occurred–eBay collections, now what?

35 pointsnikkwong20 comments

I sold a MakerBot printer on ebay for $1,000. The printer was used, but was in almost new condition and worked flawlessly. I indicated it's condition as used. When the buyer received it, he instantly started sending me incendiary messages about how he was expecting a new printer (I didn't give him the original box, or things like that). The messages were borderline harassment with lots of expletives. For some context, this was one of the messages: "Bi*h I paid over 1k for this new not a used one. U fake a* broke little bi*h what a broke a* bi*h ur a f**g joke".

I politely let the buyer know he could return it, but didn't hear anything else from him. A few weeks later, I learned that he issued a chargeback with his CC company. I submitted evidence, including a screenshot of the original posting, as well as the messages, and my request for him to send the item back. I learned a week ago that the CC company approved the chargeback; and now eBay is telling me I owe them $1,000 or it will go to collections.

I feel like I've been scammed and I've lost my printer. I wonder if anyone has any advice for remedying this situation. I've read that I could go to arbitration over the chargeback, but I don't know if that will work with ebay's ecosystem and it seems like a pain.

Thanks for any advice.

The ebay terms of service force an arbitration procedure, however, the exception is if you go to small claims court. Most small-claims courts have an upper limit of something like $2,500, so your claim is under that. Send a certified letter with your details and state that if they do not reverse the chargeback, you will take the case to small claims court in your city. They will spend a lot more just replying to such a case than the value of it.

> You and eBay each agree that any and all disputes or claims that have arisen, or may arise, between you and eBay (or any related third parties) that relate in any way to or arise out of this or previous versions of the User Agreement, your use of or access to our Services, the actions of eBay or its agents, or any products or services sold, offered, or purchased through our Services shall be resolved exclusively through final and binding arbitration, rather than in court.

> Alternatively, you may assert your claims in small claims court, if your claims qualify and so long as the matter remains in such court and advances only on an individual (non-class, non-representative) basis.

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/member-behaviour-policies...

EDIT: If you happen to be in Michigan, hit me up, I am a lawyer and I enjoy helping with these sorts of things.

This actually seems like a viable solution. Thank you so much; I am going to pursue this. And gosh, wish I was in Michigan!

I assume eBay would write its terms of service to be in their own favor to the maximum extent possible. So why do you think they allowed an exception for small claims court?

Generally courts have looked down upon forcing arbitration for cases that are tiny, like small claims cases. Some courts might invalidate an arbitration clause if there is no small claims exception.

Would that language prevent appealing a small claims court decision in a higher court?

No. Once you're in a court, the case stays in court. You can't appeal a trial court decision to an arbitrator.

I think you already know you got scammed. The guy couldn't care if it was new printer or not. He was just scamming you and sending those messages just to test you and may be prove to their banks that you didn't give them what you promised.

We need someone to disrupt this monopoly that these banks have where most disputes are won by consumers and not business owners. We had a guy use our SAAS for 6+ months and then charged back everything because he claimed it was "defective product" as per Stripe and we lost that dispute. Funny he raised tons of support tickets in the meantime but right at 6 months decided to take it all back (He knew what he was doing because I believe you can go back upto 6 months usually for chargebacks).

Coming back to you, you absolutely were scammed. Question is: Does Ebay care ? My guess: Not.

I would be surprised if he actually sent his messages to his bank as evidence; as idk, I would think his behavior would be incriminating, and my responses would cast a positive light on me, but what do I know. It's frustrating to think that the bank would have seen those and sided with him still; and it's also frustrating to think that he alternatively didn't send the bank any evidence or messages at all and they still sided with him. These CC disputes are obviously so fallible.

No comment on the rest of the ecosystem, but eBay and PayPal are just as easy to scam from either side of the equation. The problem is less that they're biased toward consumers and more that they're willing and able to award damages with scant evidence.

EBay is also a monopoly, and so is Paypal.

I once sold an expensive piece of test equipment on eBay. Packed it carefully and shipped it across the country. A few weeks pass after delivery confirmation and then the buyer wants a refund - the equipment "arrived damaged".

When I get the unit back it's in a completely different box covered in Korean labelling and customs forms. Turns out the buyer was a US drop point for a South Korean equipment reseller and the item got trashed while being reshipped over the Pacific Ocean.

The buyer used eBay's policies to literally make it my fault and there was no way to convince them otherwise. It was a free insurance policy for them. I got a worthless machine back and lost the money.

I'll never sell anything expensive or large with them ever again. You can't win.

For fashion, the alternatives are places like RealReal where you ship to them and they authenticate and sell. The problem is that they take like a 40% cut and will lower your asking price if it does not sell after a certain amount of time.

I almost would pay for an authentication service I would bring the item to, to check the condition of the item and handle shipping. If Ebay provided these, it would help stop scammers.

I agree. This seems like something UPS or FedEx could offer through their chain of stores. A shipment would be delivered to the store and opened in front of the customer. Capture the whole thing on video.

Any damage is recorded right then and there, if the buyer walks away with the product then the purchase is complete.

I had many problems like this on ebay, people claiming they didn’t get the thing it was broken. These days I would just rather give something like that away to someone deserving than deal with the ebay/gumtree etc. crowd.

Standard advice, get a lawyer

Instructions unclear, bank balance now stuck in retainer.

I second the advice to get a lawyer. She was a victim of fraud.

This is my nightmare. I wouldn't ever give up but would hate wasting every moment while fighting it. Fuck these kinds of people.

It's going to be an uphill battle. eBay aggressively sides with the buyer. I had a similar thing happen where I had delivery confirmation and positive feedback from the buyers but they requested a refund from eBay about a month later.

Mine was only for $400 so I just let it go.

Do you have the tracking number of your shipped item?

Usually having the tracking number will be a sure way to fight it.

Provide all communications, shipping/tracking numbers and all comms to ebay and/or CC company.

Fight until the end.

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