Comment by ninefathom | Hacker News Reader

Comment by ninefathom | Hacker News Reader

I'm struggling to reconcile these two:

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/ford-f150-lightning-elect... -- "the towing range of the electric F-150 is dismal." (~100 miles)

https://www.theverge.com/23307298/ford-f-150-lightning-revie... -- "Happily, the F-150 Lightning is a terrific F-150 — and a terrific truck. If you can find one to buy for a reasonable price and you’ve got a handle on charging for how you’ll use it, it’s clearly a better choice than a gas-powered truck."

So... what exactly does The Verge think that a pickup truck is used for? Spoiler alert: if they think it's for running the kids to soccer practice, occasionally moving some plants or lawn furniture, showing off your bling around town, or coping with thinning hair and loss of libido at midlife, there are far better EV options. And for those who are going to argue that the 100-mile range isn't an issue, even if your time is worth nothing, try getting a truck towing a camper into a typical service station parking lot some time. Once every 5+ hours is plenty, thanks.

I'm all for EVs, and I'm certain they're the future of the automotive industry. I'm also certain that Ford has a long way to go before I'll even consider swapping my 35-year-old diesel F-250 HD for an electric hauling rig(1). Finally, based on the article, I'm fairly certain that the last thing the good editors at The Verge towed was a Radio Flyer.

(Note 1: for those breaking out in a rash, I use the F-250 about once a month and it runs WVO. The daily driver is something with a much smaller carbon footprint.)

> what exactly does The Verge think that a pickup truck is used for?

I think that The Verge has a better idea of what most F-150s are used for than you do. There are a whole lot of trucks out there that are never going to tow anything.

Why on earth would you think that? The Verge is a link farm at this point, and Nilay (IMO the party most responsible for The Verge’s precipitous slide into irrelevance) is routinely one of the most out-of-touch sanctimonious personalities in tech.

I am in 100% agreement with you about The Verge in general. I used to visit a lot and have completely stopped. It's garbage now. I only see their articles if they pop up on top of HN or Reddit.

But that doesn't mean they are always wrong about everything.

It's so frustrating. The new f150s are GIANT.

They look comical to me; like a monster truck, so freaking tall the proportions just look insane.

And most of the ones in Denver (which has a lot more people who actually go outdoors) don't look like they are used for anything except commuting.

I started driving again to get into the mountains more, and got an old tacoma.

The new ones are too big AND the dealer only had 4 doors with a mini bed!!! Just get an SUV....

And even my 2010 one looks big next to the generation before it. The old ones tow stuff just fine and it fills what I need: a ton of storage for climbing gear.

Searched around for electric tacoma info last night.

Looks like one might be coming 2024 (which i guess is sold 23?).

But it looks huge. One youtube reviewer of the render image said it looks more like a Tundra which are just insanely big.

I looked into the e f150. it would barely fit into my parking spot - not enough room to get bags in and out of door. Not even considering how to get an electric charger in there... In the near term I think I would have to use the whole foods.

I really really want an electric pickup, full bed, 2 doors - at a small size, light weight.

Sadly the range looks like a problem too.

Which would be better if they weren't so giant and heavy.

Hybrid sounds like only option unless they start to offer 400/450+ mile batteries.

At least until we build a ton of rapid chargers pretty far out.

Maybe someone can invent a jerry can of electricity!

> I'm also certain that Ford has a long way to go before I'll even consider swapping my 35-year-old diesel F-250 HD for an electric hauling rig(1)

It's not as if they're unaware of it. Their CEO even said that for some users, an electric truck won't work. From https://archive.ph/6Deq6:

> Farley emphasized that Ford plans to continue investing in gasoline-powered vehicles, noting that the Super Duty pickup trucks generate huge revenue for the company and battery technology isn't yet advanced enough to pivot.

> "If you're a Super Duty customer towing 10,000 pounds in Montana or on the north slope of Alaska," he said. "An electric vehicle is an awful solution, the batteries are too heavy."

Even with those statements, I think Ford is seriously sugarcoating the issue. It seems that the F-150 Lighting is basically a vanity vehicle at this point.

To be fair, that (vanity vehicle) is probably at least half of the F-150 market today anyway. I don't have a problem with Ford putting on a show to make money. But if The Verge is going to work in a Ford showroom, they should at least be up front about it.

The lightning is for mall crawling. It's not really a serious truck if you do legit truck stuff that involves travel aka blue collar workers that often travel to jobs.

Is it? I'm not in the demographic that would buy one, but it seems that for a contractor that doesn't tow tons of stuff or drive long distances it would work well, especially with the outlets.

Maybe I'm missing something but say a landscaper or a carpenter, wouldn't it work for them? What kind of scenarios would involve towing heavy loads?

I have a few specific examples in mind, but my brother does tile and he's often carrying a load of tile, a saw, etc 50-60 miles in traffic to jobs. Sometimes he hauls a trailer with even more gear for bigger jobs and with that trailer, you're looking at 1/3 the range of the battery which gives it about 100 miles which isn't really conducive to those long trips. Even if those jobs are only 2-3x a year, that truck is pretty DOA.

I'd say you'd probably get the same range for those guys who haul a lot of mowers, weedeaters, gas, etc. They have shorter ranges though so they may be fine.

Union jobs that go distances to factories carrying welders would struggle too. No one wants to think about range in the winter while you've got a crew of 5 people and a trailer.

I'm sure there are plenty of jobs that'll be fine, but I think the line is drawn if you have a crew + a trailer. It's just too risky.

Gotcha, makes sense. Thanks for sharing, it's good to see things from outside the SV bubble.

No worries, I'm aware that there are plenty of use cases for the truck, but for the people who actually use trucks, I don't think it makes a great one. The range for towing pretty much cuts the battery to 1/3 and that's just extremely limited unless you're a commute is 30 miles or so and you have a great charger at home. It takes a lot of flexibility if you have to run to home Depot to grab some extra wood or something too if you're really worried about your range. Diesel trucks can just go forever.

If it really gets 300+ miles per charge and gets back up to 80% in 41 minutes, then it should be fine for workers that are travelling less than 5 hours a day (or 10 hours if there is a charger near the job site...)

It gets 100 miles per charge if you're hauling a trailer is my point. The lightning gets 1/3 range when hauling. I say this as a EV owner. Constantly thinking about chargers is a huge pain in the ass and I promise you, many of these blue collar workers ain't going to want to deal with it.

Oh; that's lame.

I wish someone would just build an EV pickup truck. There have been DIY instructions since the lead acid days, since the frames already have ample space and load bearing capacity for the batteries.

My grandpa outfitted his LUV diesel to burn vegetable oil. I always thought that was an exciting way to build a more green vehicle. I personally think hydrogen is the way to go for "heavy" tow vehicles. Has great energy density and it burns green. I believe planes would work well on hydrogen as well.

Save you a google, WVO = waste vegetable oil.

I live in Texas and big trucks are super common. I drive a truck with a lift in Austin and haven't towed a thing.

Cut through all the marketing first.

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