Comment by joe_hills | Hacker News Reader

Comment by joe_hills | Hacker News Reader

I hope anyone who wants to pursue the arts doesn’t let pessimists like this discourage them from expressing themselves in the ways they love best.

I can say from experience that becoming a self-employed artist is possible, but not easy or quick.

My path was to find a full-time job that used different parts of my brain from my art. I used my limited free time to brainstorm, create, and publish whatever I could make time for to slowly build an audience for about a decade.

Eventually enough folks discovered my work (and found themselves jobs themselves that allowed them more discretionary income) that becoming a self-employed artist became feasible for me.

Over three-quarters of my revenue is direct audience support like tips or Patreon. I make enough for my kid to have opportunities my parents couldn’t afford for me—while determining my own schedule and being more available to her day-to-day than my dad could be either.

I acknowledge it’s a gamble to buy supplies and spend time to make something, publish it, and travel to meet your audience a few times a year. I admit I’m lucky it paid off for me. But it isn’t as near impossible as the author makes it out to be.

> I hope anyone who wants to pursue the arts doesn’t let pessimists like this discourage them

I would call it realism, not pessimism.

> I can say from experience that becoming a self-employed artist is possible, but not easy or quick.

Congratulation on making it, But that's the survivorship bias the article mentions. For every one like you, there are a thousand who did not make it, and will never make it. Should they stop trying because of this? Nope. But should they be aware of this and not bet their whole life on their art? Definitely yes.

There are far too many people living in the decision that they just need to make an attempt or hustle for a short while, and they will swim in money and fame. And too many of them invest their life, money and future into this. I know some of them, and have seen where it ends. Realism is not pessimism, it just keeps you away from the darkest parts of life by pointing at darker parts.

I think some of the best advice you can give folks who are looking to pursue arts as a full time career is 'don't do it'.

It's incredibly difficult, and not at all like arts as a hobby. I think it is terrible advice blindly telling folks to pursue arts because it makes it seem reasonably achievable, and sets people up to waste far too much of their time becoming miserable with real consequences for themselves and those around them.

If someone is discouraged by the "don't do it" advice that easily, then they were likely not going to be making it their full time employment.

And the folks who have the drive and determination to see their goals to the end that aren't going to be dissuaded by some random person on the internet or at a conference telling them they are going to fail.

Robin Williams had advice like that all the time, and along the same lines I really thing Cal Newport's 'So Good They Can't Ignore You' is incredibly beneficial to anyone at the beginning of a career path.

Or write you first few books, gain a following using social media, and then decide whether you want to make it a career based upon your previous success.

I know a person who makes upper 5 figures at her day job and makes about that much writing zombie romance novels (as in, the main character falls in love with a zombie) for online publication. Clearly, it's her niche, but it's also a hobby that she's been able to buy a house with.

I am active in non-professional theater, and a lot of people come through my group with the hope of becoming professionals.

My advice to them is that if there is anything else they can do, do it. Being a professional actor is miserable. The odds are it will fail entirely; most of the remainder will barely make subsistence.

Much of what I do is to provide a place for people to be genuinely creative in ways that they couldn't afford to if their living depended on it. We get to take artistic chances that please us. You don't get that if your livelihood depends on it.

A few people have taken my advice and concluded that they needed to do this. Some have had minor successes. Good for them. Others tried and discovered that indeed, it was not fun and not good for them, and they left. None, fortunately, are starving, convinced that persistence is the key to success because they read it on a motivational poster.

As a long time theatre professional, all theatre is non professional. Or rather, it's not a business, and therefore there's not an avenue to success.

All theatre, even (and especially) Broadway exists only because rich people funnel free money into it. Regionally as donors, and on Broadway as "investors" who almost never make a return.

It is a rich people's hobby and for those who do make a career out of it, it's lottery winning odds to be middling comfortable. One percent of one percent become well off.

You may also notice, as an audience member, that it is almost universally terrible entertainment. It just sort of shuffles on through the centuries with an occasional Hamilton and lots and lots of wealthy networking opportunities.

I read an interview with Francis Ford Coppola a while ago. He’s filthy rich.

He emphasized again and again he isn’t rich because of his movies. He made outside investments than turned out well.

He made it pretty clear any future movies he makes will he self-funded and at a loss.

So even Hollywood is at the mercy of donors.

Would love to see your art! Care to share it?

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