It's good that Apple, IBM and other tech companies are taking steps to prevent this sort of discrimination. It's a shame that Google seems be going in the opposite direction.
I’ve been here almost 20 years. This city used to be largely caste agnostic.
Now when I meet new people, especially outside the elite tech circles, they will casually mention their upper caste status (“As Brahmins, we don’t do xyz of course!”).
Even cars carrying caste stickers are more common.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modh
A lot of Vaishyas have been certifying themselves as Backward caste in order to obtain affirmative action privileges. Including the dominant caste in Gujarat, the Patels - with the Patidar movement.
Modis were added to OBC list in 2002. This is a subversion of affirmative action which was meant to help lower castes, not upper castes.
BJP is primarily composed of upper castes. Only performative functions like Presidency are granted to lower castes.
Heck, in my home state, Rajputs, former rulers, have been lobbying to get categorized as OBC because of the reservation benefits.
I do however take issue with bashing the government for every social justice issue du jour. It’s convenient but very distracting for all sides involved. For example GP here accuses the current government of caste intolerance. If you think about it though it doesn’t make much sense, given the Indian government’s nationalist agenda of uniting all Hindus and instilling in them pride for their culture etc. Sowing caste divisions would be the exact opposite of what they would want to do in this scenario.
The Manusmriti, for instance, has been referenced and quoted by several ministers and politicians. Yet no one has addressed the deep casteism in it.
The government doesn’t promote casteism - I agree with that. But promoting Hindu pride without addressing some of its issues eventually gets you casteism.
If you’re Indian, you know it too - the OBC category is just political hogwash (disclaimer: I’m from an OBC category)
I imagine that hypothetical Republicoin and Demacoin currencies would find strong support among the hard-core true believers of the respective groups for the same reasons.
Am I talking to a bot?
But the very lowest castes which were outside the traditional varna division (i.e. untouchables, known today as Dalits) basically got the short end of the stick with little if any benefit (the only silver lining I can think of is lack of competition for ritually impure jobs that no one else was willing to do).
It is morally repugnant and treating it as anything else is perhaps even more morally repugnant.
Wealthy whites are all too happy to brag about their privileges, while discriminating against poor whites to “atone” for that.
> Ironically it tends to be high caste Indians who push this stuff (perhaps because of higher education levels).
High caste Indian immigrants or their American children? I have trouble imagining someone raised outside of the American cultural context getting enthusiastic about DEI in that way.
What about in the EU? You don't think there are people there enthusiastically discussing DEI?
I was specifically talking about the performative white liberal guilt thing, which "high caste Indians who push this stuff" brought to mind.
It totally makes sense that lower-class/caste people would be pushing for equality, wherever they are.
Intersectionality is the idea that multiple identities intersect, and like the intersection in a Venn diagram, the overlap is a unique zone.
Put differently, Black people and Muslims may advocate in their own self interest, but otherwise believe whatever they believe. Ordinarily, such advocacy would seek to avoid issues that divide the community within itself. White people, by contrast, are not advocating on their own behalf, but on behalf of a variety of groups that are the object of their sympathy. Intersectionality uniquely reflects how such white people see the world.
And that BIPOC cultures have a history of third gender peoples? Two Spirit, fa'afafine, chibados, muxe, sipniq, etc.
To say these things only exist because of white liberal sexuality is patently absurd.
LatinX is a good example that clearly illustrates the power dynamic. Although it was coined by a Puerto Rican, it is unpopular among Spanish-speaking Americans. If Spanish speaking Americans took a vote, they wouldn’t call themselves “LatinX.” The term has become a prominent label because it appeals to white people.
Third genders actually illustrate how “BIPOC cultures” view gender very differently from white people. Bangladesh, where I’m from, recognizes a third gender. But it isn’t associated with ideas of gender and gender roles being fluid, as it is in white societies. It instead functions to separate sexual minorities from everyone else in a society that is intensely gendered and heteronormative.
The Wikipedia article on third genders actually contains a disclaimer reminding white people not to project their own concepts of gender and sexuality onto superficially similar concepts in other cultures.
Agreed on Latinx vs the more pronounceable latin@/latinao.
BIPOC is similar: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/01/us/terminology-language-p... (“In a national poll conducted by Ipsos for The New York Times, more than twice as many white Democrats said they felt ‘very favorably’ toward ‘BIPOC’ as Americans who identify as any of the nonwhite racial categories it encompasses.”)
It’s important for white people not to confuse their personal experiences with individual “BIPOC” as proxies for “BIPOC” communities: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/28/us/politics/elizabeth-war.... These folks are often activists who align with white power to overcome the majority opinion within their community.
There probably are but: 1) I understand it's often thought of as an Americanism there, and 2) Europe doesn't have the same history, which would make its ground less fertile for it (white people are aboriginal there, and I understand there's little to no history of domestic radicalized slavery, etc.).
The Picts would like to have a word with you.
Would they? All the pictures that come up on an image search are of white people with tattoos.
> Just a few months ago in June, Google, whose CEO Sundar Pichai has Indian roots, cancelled a talk on caste discrimination where Dalit rights activist Thenmozhi Soundararajan was supposed to give a presentation. The talk was organised by Google employee Tanuja Gupta.
It’s not the opposite but probably what GP was referring to.
Google is taking the issue more seriously, but in an evil direction rather than a good one.
People with these beliefs don't belong anywhere in society where they can oppress others. Just as white people who think blacks are beneath them do not belong in any setting where they can affect a black person.
I mean, discovering a new form of discrimination, which only Indians can perform? And none of your fellow managers have ever heard of this stuff? And you don't know WTF a caste is?
And I doubt the accused is telling HR "yeah, I discriminate on caste, got a problem with that?" - they might instead be saying "some of his behaviour towards me has made me uncomfortable, I don't want to complain formally I just think everyone would be happier if we were on different projects"
I can see why a person might decide that's not a minefield they're equipped to navigate, and pass the issue over to HR.
And anyone who resists that principle is a co-conspirator in caste-based oppression and should leave as well.
How do you "force not to discriminate"? How is this currently enforced in companies?
The GP said: > there is no question that a person who refuses to work with coworkers based on lower caste does not belong in any workplace with lower caste workers
Which I read as separate castes if they will discriminate. That’s like saying separate race or gender if someone will discriminate. That’s currently not how it works for other protected classes.
Groups gonna group... it's good to see there's some pushback on the bullshit.