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Comment by AussieWog93 | Hacker News Reader

Really interesting to hear so many people having had experiences with Apple support.

I recently bought a 10 year-old iMac second hand from Cash Converters, which I promptly softbricked the day after purchase (bad Bootcamp install + firmware password).

I took it in to the Apple Store, and despite the fact that it was 10 years old and used, they contacted the engineers in Cupertino to get the firmware unlock key, reformatted it and updated it to the latest supported macOS, and didn't charge a cent for the service.

I was blown away and told people I knew about the experience. Apparently they did something similar for a friend's iPhone 6 a couple of years ago. Didn't charge a cent to service a 5 year-old smartphone.

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Both of your examples are software related. In my experience, anything hardware related Apple tends to shift the blame to the consumer. I wonder how much of their profits are based on repairs.

I think it's perhaps more random than that. Friend of mine had a problem with an older MBP. He took it in to get repaired, it was going to be a system board replacement, but since they didn't have that part handy they just sent him out with a brand new MBP with comparable (but slightly better) specs than his original.

For all the people complaining about Apple, they haven't screwed me over yet either, I've only had good experiences. All hardware, I haven't had a software issue I couldn't find the fix for on my own.

I assume your friend had Apple Care, in which case it would be expected to receive a replacement device if they cannot repair it or cannot repair it in a timely manner.

He did, but it was out of AppleCare too. The kicker was that the problem had begun to manifest while still within the three year window, so there was documented history. It was most of a year out of AppleCare when it failed the last time and they decided to cover it as goodwill.

In my experience when there are design flaws Apple won't move a finger until there are class action lawsuits.

And good luck if you're outside the US. Not sure how it is in other countries, but in Mexico Apple doesn't do repairs. It's all left to authorized third parties that really will only try to get as much money from you as possible or get you to buy a new device.

I know a couple of people that were denied repairs/replacements on the infamous butterfly keyboards because these repair centers said they couldn't reproduce the issue themselves. Most likely they didn't want to do the repairs because their margin was too low.

Anyone who's read my comments knows I don't usually have the patience to be charming or whatever. I had a battery start bulging with a polycarbonate MacBook and they just gave me a battery off the shelf no questions asked. There was some other underlying problem, and I eventually scrapped it. Its replacement eventually heated up the charging cable enough that the insulation browned and flaked away (computer side so it's not replaceable). I got a free replacement with zero hassle. Both were out of warranty.

Phone side, I had an OG iPhone SE and decided to get the battery replaced right towards the end of the free replacement period. The first/only appointment I could find was at the Emeryville store so I dropped the phone off. Unfortunately they had a runaway thermal event so the store got evacuated. I was told to come back later and pick up my phone. Eff that, I'm not sitting in traffic and paying for bridge toll for their mistake. It took a bit of persuasion, escalation, and a minor tantrum but they did FedEx my phone back to me. Eventually I dropped that and broke the screen. They couldn't fix it and they no longer sold the 64 GB version so I got a new 128 GB one off the shelf for the price of the repair ($130) without even asking. Or 32/64. Whatever.

So, yeah, Apple's been good to me with hardware stuff (with and without AppleCare). Clearly they're not making everyone whole. The problem as I see it is that Apple is relying almost entirely on the discretion of their retail staff instead of having a formal policy in place.

>The problem as I see it is that Apple is relying almost entirely on the discretion of their retail staff instead of having a formal policy in place.

So, I worked behind the genius Bar about a decade ago, and can tell you that at least as of then (say iPhone 3g through 6 era) this was definitely not the case. There’s a policy for everything.

The issue is that you’re an individual, dealing with another individual who is acting as the intermediary between you and an extraordinarily large and complex logistics and record-keeping system.

If you left feeling taken care of and treated fairly, from apple’s POV that’s a successful interaction. But the procedure for getting there may deliberately not be customer-facing; that doesn’t mean the procedure doesn’t exist.

I can answer questions if people are interested, with the caveat that my info is (thankfully) not fresh.

It definitely didn't seem like there was any policy in place to deal with shipping a customer's items from a store to their home. If there/are policies in place they certainly don't feel consistent – and that's a problem IMO. There was also a pretty big shift when Ahrendts "revamped" the stores in 2016. Apple stores morphed from a convenient place to buy stuff and get support to a place where you go so Apple can further monetize you.

To the sibling comment: I've seen much worse approaches to safety stuff at other companies. Go buy a used steering wheel with a potentially defective Takata airbag for a car. Now try to get that air bag replaced or verified safe.

Or go buy a Coway air purifier. Notice how the fan is off balance and there are a bunch of complaints about these things periodically exploding? Try to get Coway to fix or replace it… lol.

> It definitely didn't seem like there was any policy in place to deal with shipping a customer's items from a store to their home.

Sure there is, it’s “we don’t do that” (at least in my day, and I’d be shocked if that’s changed). It’s a good explanation for why things seemed ad hoc and improvised—because they were. Sounds like the tech & manager were way off the reservation.

At least at my store and in my day, that’s the kind of exception we tried really hard to avoid. You never want to set an expectation you’re not going to be able to meet consistently.

>There’s a policy for everything.

The other thing to mention is that regardless of policy, humans are humans.

If you're acting like a Karen to the guy behind the counter, they are going to give you the absolute bare minimum service. They know the policy, and they know exactly how it can be applied to make sure you have a shit day.

If you help them help you, they'll often go above and beyond to make sure you're looked after.

The simplest and most effective strategy I've found, both as a customer and a support rep, is to simply explain the problem you're experiencing at a physical level, keeping emotion and opinion out of it. Then cooperate with them and trust them to do their job.

Support people are almost biologically engineered to want to solve your problems, but do not appreciate being treated as a punching bag or emotional dumpster.

"My trackpad stopped working randomly, do you reckon we can fix this?" is far more likely to get a good response than "My trackpad is broken, I spent $1000 on this computer just 6 months ago! I can't believe you'd sell me such shit!"

I worked that job, and in my view it's part of being a professional to not let emotions interfere with the level of service provided.

Exactly this, even for things that might seem positive.

Every time you say to yourself “I like this guy, I’ll break the rules and hook him up” you’re setting the next tech up for a really bad day.

Batteries swelling and cables getting so hot they're discolouring is what we call "safety critical" issues in the electronics industry.

Basically it means they're early indications of problems that can cause injury (in both these cases fire). Most companies I know are extremely lenient with warranty for these types of issues. I worked in support for a manufacturer (not Apple) for a long time.

Who knows if it’s true but apple has publicly stated they lose money on repairs.

https://www.engadget.com/2019-11-21-apple-repair-costs.html

Well, repair is included in the hefty price tag. Anything else about this is just noise.

You've got really no way of knowing that for sure. Could just be a hefty price tag that doesn't include repairs.

I don't know why you're being downvoted, manufacturers include warranty costs in their cost bills to determine final sale price.

'We lose money on replacing the entire motherboard for 3 cents under cost whenever any minor thing goes wrong but make bank on refurbished computers with a single resistor that had gone bad which we get for free for some reason'

The fact is, Apple is generally one of the best support experiences you’re going to have today. But there are also 1,000,000,000+ iOS devices out there, millions of laptops, and a lot of customers. You’re going to have plenty of bad experiences at that scale

What? I have always said "you never leave an apple support experience with a smile. It is always with a belly ache or relief".

They are, at least in my part of the world, considered just above Italian car rentals.

Where do you live? Do you deal with apple support directly, or apple authorized service providers?

Sweden. I have tried both.

The best support i got was when the guy at the authorized service provider told me to take the business across the street since it was both faster and cheaper and the device was out of warranty anyway.

I got a new MacBook Pro 2 years ago whose screen got black lines after a few days of use, went to Apple support, they changed the screen and didn’t charge me a cent. The guy told me since there’s no physical damage, nothing would be charged

Eh. About 10 years ago I had one of the older white iMacs, I think like a 2008 model or thereabouts. After owning it around 5 years and no longer being under warranty, it had some motherboard problem I brought it in for anyway. The Apple Store Geniuses (?) tried fixing it a couple different ways but couldn't, so they replaced it with a similarly-specced current (at the time) model for free.

I had a Macbook pro gpu go bad a couple years outside the warranty of the laptop. They replaced the entire thing for me and also noticed a little dent in the case and swapped that out too, I essentially got a new (old) machine handed to me with my hard drive swapped to it.

They didn't charge me anything for that either.

I realize this is just anecdotal, though.

It's also worth noting he's in Australia, where sane consumer laws exist that Apple have to operate in. The staff here are pretty good.

IMO getting good customer service requires social engineering, whether it’s the Apple store or the cable company. Personally I’ve always been able to talk a Genius into replacing the device, even with a new one versus a returb; at no cost. Sucks that it’s a gamble who ends up assisting you, but my odds have been good.

Cash Converters is a pawnshop for those wondering.

Usually referred to as Crime Converters in Australia.

FWIW, there is a special command you can use to disable the apple unlock key for the firmware password. I don’t have it on hand

https://support.apple.com/guide/security/firmware-password-p...

> For users who want no one but themselves to remove their firmware password by software means, the -disable-reset-capability option has been added to the firmwarepasswd command-line tool in macOS 10.15. Before setting this option, users must acknowledge that if the password is forgotten and needs removal, the user must bear the cost of the logic board replacement necessary to achieve this.

I've owned macs for decades and every single time there's been a problem or defect, they have been gaslighting assholes the whole time. Things were particularly bad when the only way to get a laptop repaired was to ship it to their repair facility in Texas. Weeks of waiting, only to get the machine shipped back to you with a letter saying they found nothing wrong.

Apple is infamous for "secret" recalls that staff will never mention unless you specifically know about them in advance.

One example: I had a Retina MBP with the infamous antiglare-flaking problem, which Apple was sued over and initiated a secret warranty extension program for people who complained...but the settlement did not require notifying owners of said extension. I assumed they weren't doing repairs until I heard about the program second-hand...a year after they stopped doing it.

Sad thing is, in my experience, they're still one of the best when it comes to service lol.

Razer's support is underrated. They've easily been the best for any company I've had to deal with multi-thousand-dollar replacements/repairs for, and coincidentally they also serve a very similar niche to Apple (high-priced, high-performance, well-built laptops).

From my experience with them, as the guy who'd fix everyone's electronics back in uni, the build quality of Razer gear was unfortunately not so great!

A lot of chabuduo Chinese components in products that were priced at the high end of the market!

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