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Comment by legitster | Hacker News Reader

I still don't understand the appeal of aluminum/glass construction. I couldn't think of a worse set of materials to make a laptop out of.

For comparison, nearly every other ultrabook manufacturer has moved onto magnesium or carbon fiber for chassis construction. Both materials are much physically stronger, lighter, and (most importantly, imho) offer more intrinsic shock protection.

I know people enjoy the "luxury" look and feel of a Macbook and criticize other manufacturers for using composite materials. But I don't think most people understand that for other manufacturers, moving to aluminum unibody construction at this point would probably be a cost-saving measure.

Apple does not offer a single product that is MIL-SPEC tested, despite nearly every other manufacturer having some or all of their product line submitted to standardized endurance testing.

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There's an ongoing joke in the military, MIL-SPEC just means it's a piece of crap that's going to break pretty soon. From an engineering point of view, I'd like to believe that using all MIL-SPEC components which are rated to last longer and in harsher environments would amount to a more reliable product. But maybe a product is more than the sum of its parts, and it's possible a company can build a more reliable product despite not using MIL-SPEC components or obtaining that certification. Just something to think about.

> There's an ongoing joke in the military, MIL-SPEC just means it's a piece of crap that's going to break pretty soon.

Yeah well, my M1 MacBook Air just friggin' screen-died overnight ten days ago. On the other hand my military grade LG Gram is still working fine after years and years.

I can hold the LG Gram's screen with both hands and start distorting it and it keeps working flawlessly: the screen is very flexible. That's how it was demo'ed to me and that's how I always demo it to people.

That and it's lighter than a M1 MacBook Air (yup).

It doesn't have a retina display. But it still works.

I think Apple screwed up big times and I think these M1 laptops would never have passed any MIL-SPEC. They're brittle little things.

To counter anecdote with anecdote, my M1 MBA is still kicking and has survived untold abuse. I carry the computer by the display, have dropped it multiple (over tens) times on to hardwood, linoleum, and concrete floors from 3'-4' high. The computer was on the ground and I accidentally dropped my phone on it, which left a nick in the screen but nothing greater. I spilled an entire pitcher of water on the keyboard and every component is working as usual.

So maybe my computer would pass MIL-SPEC ten times over.

I haven't spilled anything on it, but I have a mid-2013 MacBook Air running Sierra. It still works great, and the hardware doesn't have any defects that I know of.

The most surprising thing about using that machine is that it's shockingly fast. And I own an M1 Ultra Mac Studio.

MIL-SPEC just means it conforms to a spec. Whether that means "rugged" or just "standardized" really depends on why and when the spec was written.

I've managed production of a number of "MIL-SPEC" parts over the years. Usually it just meant documentation and traceability.

and that is just the kind of assurance some consumers are willing to pay for.. with sophistication in manufacturing quality can be made to be varied from batch to batch. Sometimes they don't even bother, ie. I no longer trust board revision from gigabyte, same rev diff layout diff components are far too common. not sure how it's economical, but the fact that it IS economical tells me something is way off.

Sure. But I think there is a fundamental difference in philosophy when Thinkpad or MSI have web pages bragging about how well their laptops handle moisture ingress and Apple just has a warranty statement.

There are trade-off there to consider.

One get's ruggedness but carbon fiber is generally not a good thermal conductor which could be a problem for a laptop with no fans. And titanium is very expensive compared to aluminum.

Like all engineering. It's about priorities.

He said magnesium, not titanium.

I guess he was referring to the old titanium macbook pro (during the G4 era) which was amazing. I had one in my motorcycle sidebags and it survived amazing abuse.

My friends vehicle hit an IED in Afghanistan. Everyone's personal MacBooks that were inside broke but his Toshiba was fine.

I don't think the aluminium ever touches the glass...

They always make sure there is a layer of plastic or glue a few hundred micrometers thick to absorb any stresses from thermal variations or falls.

Aluminium is recyclable.

Carbon fibre is a recycling disaster. Magnesium alloys somewhat less so, but there is very little demand for them.

Carbon fibre chips and shatters. Metal bends.

I really don't see how carbon fibre would be in any way better than what Apple uses right now.

Almost every metal laptop I've used has been an absolute pain because of the bending. The sound of fans scraping against metal is absolutely horrible and has killed more than one macbook of mine over the years. I even had one where my touchpad would randomly click unless it was placed on a perfectly-flat surface like a desk (no laps allowed!) because of bends. I'd much prefer a stronger material to stand the test of time, even if it chips.

> Metal bends

Aluminum bends and flexes. Magnesium alloys would shatter (if you could even apply enough force). The chassis chipping or flaking seems preferable to bending and flexing for the longevity of the internals.

The glass is the bigger problem, not the aluminum. It looks sleek and shiny but will crack easily with forces that wouldn't do anything to a plastic screen.

It's their brand. Apple continues to use aluminum because they've invested a lot into it and they're good at it. I occasionally hear a quote get thrown about on apple-centric tech podcasts that Apple probably has the greatest concentration of aluminum material science expertise not just of tech companies, but of any company that exists. So much so that Elon Musk poached one of their engineers to work on aluminum for Tesla.

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