Waterproof anything with a spray | Hacker News Reader

Waterproof anything with a spray

designtaxi.com

109 pointsjwdunne50 comments

Not to "rain" on their parade (heh), but the ability to pass water vapor effectively while also remaining hydrophobic for water droplets, and doing that for a long time on surfaces that are exposed to constant wear, is sort of the holy grail of the outdoor gear industry.

The company's page for their product (http://www.neverwet.com/product-characteristics.php) doesn't mention breathability. Considering that breathability would be a feature that would make them the next Gore-Tex, I'd expect them to trumpet it pretty loudly.

There are already pretty decent spray-on coatings for outerwear, they just don't last very long in the fabric and have to be re-applied after a few uses.

I used to work for Northern Mountain Supply back when they were a sort-of big deal.

I'd like to see what happens when you flex the material a few dozen times and then reapply water. That shoe demo doesn't mean a thing if you can't walk in the shoe.

These types of coatings also tend to fail miserably under salt water conditions.

I love the graph on that page, where 160-175 "degrees of hydrophobicity" are illustrated as a huge, exponential increase over 110 degrees. To me, more than the breathability or durability or whatever other technical issues, that graph is a huge red flag that this is 90% marketing, 10% engineering.

The scaling, though not noted seems to be about 10 degrees per line. Which means the 160-175 is actually shy of where it should be (about 5 lines up from the 110). That bar actually shows it's at 150 degrees, which must mean their marketing is actually very conservative if we are to make grand judgement calls from one graph on a company's page. ;)

The parent was referring to how they didn't start from 0, so it seems 160 degrees is 5-6 times larger than 90 degrees.

Here you go, an accurate graph: http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n147/IDKAA/graph.png

Actually the graph states that 90 degrees is the zero line because anything less doesn't count as hydrophobic. The whole page in fact explains what the graph means.

Right. This product is just silicone. Thousands of similar products are already on the market. RainX is silicone. Boot/gear spray is silicone. It's not terribly durable with heavy use (clothing, etc) and it's not very breathable. But it does shed water!

Wow, this is incredible. Assuming it isn't crazy expensive, I'd put this on everything from my car to my walls.

I do kind of wonder how you'd wash clothes coated in this, though. It would be kind of tricky if dirt can get into the fibers but water can't.

Edit: Also, I would love to prank a bartender at my local watering hole by spraying this on his bar rag when he's not looking :)

Here are some more details: http://www.neverwet.com/product-characteristics.php

They don't mention how durable it is - maybe it rubs off from your car.

If it works similarly to how Rain-X works, it'll last for awhile, then eventually you'd need to re-apply it. Rain-X is pretty cool stuff. You can drive down the road in heavy rain, and not even need your wipers 'cause rather than spreading out when the rain hits the windshield, it beads up, and "rolls" up the windshield over the car.

If it works like Rain-X without causing the streaks that show up painfully in sunlight, that would be a pretty big deal.

Helmet visors, too... there are some products out there for them, but these demo vids have some really impressive performance and look like it would work a lot better in fine mist.

I think one video mentioned being resistant to specific types of liquids like oils and water. It might be possible to just wash the clothes with detergent, with dirt (and waterproofness) just vanishing.

This stuff may not be safe for humans, especially as it degrades and flakes off. I don't really want my kids breathing it in.

Remember Scotch Guard?

It's silicone (not silicon, as the article misstates) so it's probably safe. Silicone is used in breast implants, home window sealants, cookware (look up silpat) and yes, fabric, as silnylon (the ultralight backpacker's waterproof friend). With the last case, it is not breathable, which is why it's not used for jackets.

I thought silicone in breast implants was discontinued in favor of saline due to the dangers of toxicity with implant leaks.

I am not a breast implant expert, but if I recall, silicone fell out of favor due to fears connecting the implants to mysterious immune-related diseases. However no connection between silicone breast implants and these diseases was ever borne out.

That was alleged, but IIRC, the studies showed that there was no toxicity, and that the women with leaking silicone implants didn't have a higher incidence of problems than other women their age.

It still used a lot. And they still leak.

I remember reading about similar technology before at least twice here on HN; it was 'glass in spray' then[1]. It was supposed to be here soon and revolutionize everything. I hope that this time it will actually become available to buy.

[1] I think this one: http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/smart-takes/-8216liquid-glas...

This can be bought in Europe for furniture. It is a family business, so I think they are building it up slow. They have had some good studies on their product, and I still hope we will see it in the next few years. I think it is legit.

That's cool! Is there anything stopping it from being used for anything else besides furniture?

For one, this could reduce maintenance costs for solar panels substantiality.

I would like to see what happens to a swimmer with a suit coated with this thing. Would it go faster or slower?

Faster: Friction is reduced.

Or slower, since you cannot "push" so much water with hands and feet as it "slips" through. Who wins: lower friction or lower viscosity?

Typical swimsuit doesn't cover the arms or legs, does it?

These people tested the question experimentally: http://gemini.cems.umn.edu/research/cussler/pool/ . At twice the viscosity there was no noticeable speed difference.

They describe 'wet' as having a liquid on the object its used on. I wonder how the object feels with this applied.. ie. does a glossy object feel rougher

Not necessarily. Surface roughness that creates the most hydrophobic surfaces is around 0.1-1 microns which is much less than the width of a human hair.

Anyone else notice the air bubble coming out of the iPhone speaker hole at ~ 1:38 in the second video?

A neat demo, but I suspect that phone is no longer working.

I saw a live demo of this stuff at a trade show two weeks ago, and it was truly amazing. It put any other coating I've ever seen to shame (such as RainX).

While they had a shirt and a shoe on display, the demo was mainly focused around commercially licensing it as a coating for stuff that you don't really want to clean, such as bedpans and toilet plungers.

Link below to their white paper, it has some more data on durability.

Sounds pretty impressive and apparently it is already in use by some refrigerator companies (spillproof shelves).

[0] http://www3.neverwet.com/l/4762/hite-Paper---Marine-111810-p...

Any health issues studies on this? Can't imagine it being good to get a coating on your internals.

Forget about coating your internals. What about this: You spray it on your clothes, put them on, this thing gets on your skin, and blocks all of your pores. Isn't that kind of a healthy hazard?

Sounds more like it would be an unhealthy hazard.

Wonder what this does to your lungs when you inevitably breathe it in?

I was thinking the same. This stuff must be incredibly dangerous from a medical point of view.

Or ingestion - I imagine fluid exchanges become a bit worse...

How much to simply coat all my clothes with it?

Even better, can I put it on my hair and go out in the rain without a hat?

I suppose washing it might be a problem...

I saw on reddit someone pointing out the big question there, does this leave fabrics breathable?

If it doesn't it's useless for clothes and shoes.

I just can't find anywhere on their site where they say one way or the other.

TBH, their site is pretty light on details.

Depending on how this effects breathability (as mentioned by @mattmanser) this has the potential to change the fashion industry.

If you could coat sports equipment (including gloves), it would make a world of difference to playing sport in rainy conditions.

What's the difference between this and RainX? (silicon coating used on car and airplane windshields)..

The chart on their website: http://www.neverwet.com/product-characteristics.php shows 50 degrees more hydrophobicity.

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can't wait to put this on my penis!

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