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Comment by Jensson | Hacker News Reader

Germany will pay hundreds of billions in electricity this year since they don't have enough. Nuclear would have been a bargain.

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No, this seems to be false. France is importing electricity for years from Germany - at least since 2015.

I'm not sure why you're saying that France only has an issue because of Germany? Where do you get that from? Even a french power grid operator is saying that they import more power from Germany, than they're exporting (https://www.rte-france.com/en/eco2mix/cross-border-electrici...).

But you're not even responding to my main concern - that nuclear power is so expensive, that it is never competitive. Only when subsidized. And that is for power plants that are already built - not new ones (which seem to be an even greater money pit). Why is the biggest nuclear power company unable to make money in France and needs to be rescued by the government?

I'd say if it makes sense and helps us in our current situation, just subsidize the heck out of it, even if it costs us as a country lots of money. But it absolutely doesn't seem environmentally friendly, not even regarding CO2. And it doesn't seem to be feasible to quickly build nuclear power.

But yes, Germany fucked up regarding its dependency on gas (from one source and then it's even from a country like Russia).

Now put in your cost function all the cost effects of coal to the land, the people and atmosphere.

Nuclear has been an absolute bargin and had more countries acted like France we wouldn't have many of the problems we have now.

> not even regarding CO2.

That is 100% false.

Please show me the study that shows this. Every single study I have seen suggest the opposite.

What makes you think, Germany doesn't have enough electricity? Actually quite the contrary, we produced an additonal 20 TWh to fill in for the gaps left by the French nuclear plants not delivering. (And a lot of other plants in Europe are not running on full power due to lack of cooling water)

>What makes you think, Germany doesn't have enough electricity?

@RemindMe_OfThis in January 2023

Gladly.

But as I said, possible shortages are gas for heating, industrial production, not electricity.

15% of German electricity production is from natural gas. https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Economic-Sectors-Enterpris...

Yes, and? Currently less than 35% of the German gas comes from Russia. Leaves way enough for electricity. The question is only, who gets cuts, if there isn't enough gas in the winter. The law says, industry first, heating second. The only debate is, how much cuts to private heating are a good trade off for supporting the industry. And as the Germany are very protective of the industry, there will probably a compromise of somewhat reduced heating (just wear a sweater instead of a t-shirt) and keeping all industry alive. Also of course, all companies are scrambling to secure their energy needs. This is how you deal with looming crisises: you identify them, you act to prepare. And suddenly the worst is no longer a thread. German gas storage is already filled up to 75%.

I’m paying 60x more for power in Toten, Norway because Germany is importing so much electricity from us. It’s a huge annoyance. We never should have allowed connection outside of the peninsula to you moron Germans.

But according Germans that’s impossible, because they’re net exporters* in electricity!

(* terms and conditions apply, grid stability is not guaranteed)

Can you do anything but make stupid comments without content? Yes, Germany is a net exporter, but Germany is part of the European grid. There is a joint market, where electricity is balanced across Europe every minute. The same country which is a net exporter can import in some parts of the day. France is a good example, because they mostly use rather slow nuclear power plants. But as they are part of the European grid, they rather vary between export and import than trying to adjust their power output to their current domestic usage. At minimum that makes electricity cheaper as the plants are run closer to the optimum power point.

I recommend you study the so-called “duck curve”.

Peak consumption occurs after sunset across Europe, when German photovoltaics generate zero electricity. So what do the Germans do to keep up with the demand? They spin up their extremely polluting coal plants, or buy electricity from their neighbours, forcing them to spin up their peaking plants.

>The same country which is a net exporter can import in some parts of the day.

Yeah, except the time when they want to import is precisely the time when everyone else is experiencing peak demand. Now tell me, what happens in a market when demand increases across the board? The price point moves higher along the demand curve, bravo!

If anyone, you would be the moron. If Norvegian electricity is more expensive because of Germany, then because Norway is selling it at that higher price. If Norway wouldn't sell it, there would be no money flowing from Germany to Norway. Where the money goes? Well ask your fellow Norvegians and don't blame your countries customers.

P.S.: if anyone, France is guilty of the current high electricity price in Europe. They are failing behind producing enough electricity for local consumption and consequently drive the sport market price up.

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