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Comment by jodrellblank | Hacker News Reader

Do you have a citation for your "unsafe" claim? Ungrounded doesn't automatically mean unsafe (or, in the UK, illegal).

In the UK we have 3-pin plugs, but different appliances have different rules about grounding; class II double-insulated devices don't need to be grounded (afaik) and this link[1] talking about macbooks says:

> "The macbook is a class III appliance, meaning that it is powered by a safety extra-low voltage supply. The low voltage guarantees that coming to contact with energized parts poses no risk in normal circumstances. The actual appliance from a safety perspective isn't the macbook, but the power brick."

[1] https://electronics.stackexchange.com/a/355824

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I got shocked.

Picture of testing device showing the current flow from a cable: https://ibb.co/YbqtgVX

Anything attached to the macbook port is causing shock on the exposed parts while it is plugged into that charger.

I wouldn't call it safe. If you read some of the bottom answers, they also elaborate on the same topic. Furthermore, I don't live in UK and there can be different electrical standards in terms of wiring.

I don't face this issue while using the grounded charger hence it is limited to apple charger which I double checked for missing ground support.

You can also get shocked by rubbing your feet on carpet and touching a doorknob. Are those also unsafe? Should we be panicking about our house? You’ve jumped to a wild and accusatory conclusion.

It’s nano amps at a moderately low voltage you’re able to feel, it isn’t unsafe, you just happen to be aware of it. The Apple chargers people often discuss this effect with are some of the most crazily over engineered available in terms of electrical safety and are used in every country on the planet. They have the X class capacitor which causes this effect to meet RF emissions regulations.

This is the correct response. Unfortunately it's my concern that rather than work to fix the underlying issue or learn to live with it, we'll continue to get FUD spread by people like OP. Ultimately this will lead to people going out and buying knockoff chargers with a 3rd pin and none of these EM filtering or other safety components.

I've seen this for at least 10 years come up again and again, Apple should just sell an India edition Macbook with either a plastic case or a sleeve to avoid people complaining since there's no interest in addressing the cause.

I'll have to agree with Apple defense force posters who downvoted you on this one, getting tazed is the thrill of using ungrounded appliances. By ignoring safety concerns, they can save on components, which saves on CO2 emissions.

> "By ignoring safety concerns"

OSHA have an interest in electrical safety[1] - "Electricity has long been recognized as a serious workplace hazard. OSHA's electrical standards are designed to protect employees exposed to dangers such as electric shock," and they call out ground faults: "The following hazards are the most frequent causes of electrical injuries: contact with power lines, lack of ground-fault protection, path to ground missing or discontinuous".

You could be a hero by reporting every macbook using company to OHSA. Let me know when you do, I'd like to read what they decide.

[1] https://www.osha.gov/electrical

I have owned a ~2012 metal macbook pro in the past and felt the buzzing as it was charging, and would not call that effect a shock (there was no spark, it never hurt, I never got burned or needed a doctor's visit), so if you are being shocked then your situation sounds worse - and different to the buzz most people are talking about with respect to metal macbooks.

(As a kid there were some field telephones[1] in the house, they are ex-military phones you wire directly to each other and they have hand-wound generators which power the other side to ring; we used to play a game of "how long can you touch the contacts while winding it" - that was uncomfortable but had no safety effects that I know of (no burns, bruises, doctor's visits, etc). Even being shocked is not automatically unsafe, although it may be unpleasant and undesirable from any consumer product, let alone premium ones).

[1] https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=field+telephone&iax=images&...

It's not the first time we hear about people getting electric shock from their Macbooks. And not just in India.

Did you read the part about "feel a buzz"

Yes, and?

People put their hands on Van de Graaf generators[1], people buy electric shock buzzers from joke shops[2], people stand on body-fat measuring scales which send electric current through your body to measure its conductivity and estimate fat content, people touch vehicles on humid days and get static electric shocks, people use electric shock to the brain as a therapy[3].

The safety risks I'm aware of are alternating current across your heart strong enough to override the heartbeat signals and make it quiver instead of beat normally (e.g. touching mains power with both hands, current flow through the chest), and enough current flow to cause flesh burns (extreme examples: lightning strike, touching electricity substations). I'm not aware that "feeling a buzz" is inherently a safety risk without any more context or explanation.

[1] https://assets.fishersci.com/TFS-Assets/CCG/product-images/F...

[2] https://www.amazon.com/IDS-Electric-Shock-Buzzer-Classic/dp/...

[3] https://www.ted.com/talks/sherwin_nuland_how_electroshock_th...

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