Now that Kindle is supporting ePUB and no Calibre-tion is needed, I don't even see what the Kobo value prop is.
Never seen an advert on my Kindle.
And the deletion from your library happened...once? Over millions of titles available?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2013/12/30/steam-remov...
My point is - OP said that "once is enough" - well by that metric, I'm asking if they also don't use steam, because Steam has done exactly this at least once in the past.
https://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18am...
The edition of 1984 in question was pirated. Amazon could either remove it, or face a massive fine for distributing pirated material.
The only slight thing I’ll say in their defense is that since the uploaded (it was through a self-service system) didn’t have the rights to upload those books (essentially, a third-party pirated the book, uploaded it to Amazon’s servers and then sold the book they didn’t have rights to), I understand the thought process that you’d delete and refund. It’s not like this was a legitimate book they removed. It was literally pirated. Removing books from purchaser’s devices was absolutely the wrong move and has created negative PR for Amazon for 13 years because of one bad decision. But Amazon has admitted it was the wrong move and to my knowledge hasn’t done it again.
In fact, there are a number of books I’ve bought from Amazon over the years that are no longer available on Kindle for a variety of reasons (sometimes publishers pull them, sometimes authors) that I can still download retroactively to any of my devices. So if I’m going to be locked into any ecosystem, and this is just me, I’d rather be locked into the ecosystem that has had its DRM cracked pretty succinctly (meaning I can use my purchases on non-Amazon devices or apps) and that has an insanely robust library of books. Oh, and that integrates with my Audible library.
Compare that to iBooks, where the DRM hasn’t been broken (at least, not the current scheme. Some people have had success using insanely old versions of iTunes and DRM rippers from more than a decade ago, but that’s not a reliable or approachable method) and I can’t read any of those books on my Eink devices, or Kobo, which doesn’t have as robust of a library and has always had that weird store-brand Frosted Flakes feeling, and I’m very happy to be inside the Kindle world.
Plus, my Kindle Oasis has truly been a treat. (I said I would never buy one and now have bought two, so jokes on me).
It's the same thing - you get a discount for signing up to their ads campaign.
>>why would they need to make a version where you got ads on top of that
Gee, to make a device cheaper for you.
>>I guess if we follow your logic they could build phones, consoles and TVs with ads too
I mean....yes. I'm just surprised this hasn't happened already.
The ads are the front cover of some other book on the lock screen instead of the one you're reading. I dislike a lot of Amazon's methods but this one scenario is honestly a contender for least invasive advert still in use 2022.
If you want something that is truly ad-free, try the KOReader software.
There was a single instance of a couple of George Orwell's books being removed from user devices in July 2009. Customers had the purchase price they paid refunded. It was done because the company selling those books didn't actually have the rights to sell them. Afterwards, Jeff Bezos apologised and described it as "stupid, thoughtless, and painfully out of line with our principles". It is therefore unlikely to happen again.
Given the commercial structure of Amazon e-Books, does it make sense to buy something that gives you as a reader more rights (e.g. when you die)? Perhaps. But I know what I've got into, so has every other Kindle owner on Earth.
You do you, but your stated premise against Kindle is at best a little inaccurate and outdated, and at worst comes across perhaps a little hyperbolic.
If it's still technically possible (it is), it will happen again. It's implemented to be used, even if occasionally. And mere existence of this feature is a clear declaration, you don't own it, you rent it. Many people may find it acceptable, taking other circumstances, but it's a big bold minus.
Since then they've also added an annoying carousel of sponsored apps to the home screen.
I've never bought an ebook from Amazon so at least I can easily move to something else when the kindle finally packs in.
Chrome extension here: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/push-to-kindle/pna...
Just email to Dropbox and it'll sync onto the device.
So far I find that for my purposes, the Kindle is way easier to get content onto, and there's quite a bit of content I want that I can just buy there, but couldn't buy for Kobo.
I hope to not get locked in to the Amazon ecosystem but as of right now, my cheapest-model Kindle is way more useful than my old top-of-the-line Kobo.
(A5 because it’s pretty close to the Kindle format and easy to find in the print dialog.)
Kindles do not support ePUB. But you can send ePUBs through the Amazon online conversion service now, which wasn't possible in the past.
About week ago I wanted to test it, I tried it with bunch of epubs from various sources and only about half converted successfully.
With Calibre it works but it's an annoying extra step. I hope Amazon fix this issue before they officially start supporting ePub.
There are a lot of really crap "epubs" out there.
Yes, you can use Amazon's weird conversion service to convert them, but you could do that with Calibre (or just pandoc) anyways, and probably with less friction too.
Like a screen big enough to comfortably read PDFs. 10.3" on Kobo Elipsa vs 7" on Kindle. IMHO that makes the Kindle only really useful for fiction.
There's also Pocket support for reading offline web articles.
Overdrive support so I can borrow books from my local library for free.
Free Dropbox syncing without having to email everything when I buy a book from someone that isn't Amazon e.g PragProg, Packt, etc. (Dropbox does support email though if you do want that).
In theory I could also use the pen and take written notes on my Elipsa too but it's not a feature I was looking for.
The other stuff you mentioned, like Kindle having a large purchasable library, is also true for Kobo right from the homescreen. They're also priced similarly if you match specs and available for same day delivery from Argos in the UK.
Finally, I know I could hack my last Kindle but Kobo make that really easy out of the box. Installing Koreader, Plato or anything else is simple even if it's not required for everyday use.
So for me it's the other way around. Amazon offers nothing I want that Kobo doesn't have.
Different people have different usecases but I don't think I'll go back to a Kindle now I've switched. Kobos are very easy to live with.
There is plenty of non-fiction that doesn't come in PDF form. It is quite readable on a Kindle.
Things like code or diagrams don't always reformat well and scrolling is a pain in the arse.
Life is just much easier with a bigger screen. Where I'd really come unstuck is when someone gives me a whitepaper or customer documentation that is only in PDF format. No reformating even if you want to.
Amazon used to sell the bigger Kindle DX but they stopped making it. So if you're buying a new device anyway there doesn't seem to be much downside to switching to Kobo, that I've found anyway.
Remarkable and some other companies have A5 or 10.3" screens but these are too small IMHO. You will still end up zooming and panning.
The Kobo Elipsa is the first ebook reader I've used where I can read PDFs without zooming, which is a game changer for me.
In general I think DX or Elipsa sized screens are more useful for text books even in epub format.
It's much faster than my old Kindle but I was never really that bother about the old Kindle's page turn speed. The Elipsa also has much crisper text but again I thought my anchient Kindle was mostly good enough.
The Kobo search features are much better. My old Kindle's search was too greedy which made it pretty much useless as I couldn't narrow results. e.g. I couldn't search for "act" without getting results for "actor" as well.
The only irk I've had with Kobo is that the default PDF reader doesn't let you set a zoom level to reduce margins as you read. You can zoom in but you need to zoom out again to turn the page.
That's only a very minor issues though, I can still read things fine with the default margins. Installing KOreader or Plato was as simple as dragging a file onto a USB drive and give you every ereader feature you could want including margin stripping PDFs.
I considered a Remarkable 2 but I'm not really one for hand written notes and I wanted a frontlight, which the Elipsa has but the RM2 doesn't.
I actually wish I could have bought the Elipsa without the bundled case or pen as I don't use either. The handwriting to text or drawing to flowchart conversion is fun to play with but it's not something I need, I'm strictly using it as a reading device.
I'd guess that the Elipsa would be a good replacement for a Kindle DX but that's caviated by how you personally want to use it. There's something very pleasing about keeping an old ebook reader going though so it might be fun just to keep using your DXs until they absolutely die and then see what's on the market at the time.
Hope that helps.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2018/oct/12/p...
That’s what lead me to switch to Kobo a few years ago, and it’s been great. Though some small press releases sometimes skip the kobo store still.
For PDFs and non-fiction manuals and guides I highly prefer a proper powerful tablet with a color screen. E-readers just don't have the power, refresh rate or UX to handle browsing around in 300 page books with pictures.
Funny enough, I found this holds true especially for things like programming books where I very frequently go back to see if I understood something correctly, and having a book separate from my computer in front of me is also useful.
And Kindle STILL does not support ePub. All Amazon has done is started letting people email epubs to their Kindle and their backend will convert it to an Amazon format. This has conversion warts, means you lose cover support too. You still can't copy an ePub over USB.
It's not like $45 is the regular price of the Kindle either. Camelcamelcamel has the new base model having it's lowest at $70 and I've seen the Nia for $80 and they are pretty comparable.
https://standardebooks.org/help/how-to-use-our-ebooks#kindle...
It is not amazon encumbered. That is a huge value to many
As most of the books I read are out of copyright anyway, I'm not "encumbering" myself with Amazon in any way, except for buying hardware they made.
Did they exit the business? It looks like the Nook Glowlight 4 was released less than a year ago.
I don't know a single person in real life with an e-reader other than a Kindle, including myself, so I had to google to see how B&N Nook was doing when you said that, but it still seems to be a thing.
There is still a need to deal with conversion, but it happens on Amazon servers. Which is convenient, but gives no control over the results (and someone mentioned in another comment that it doesn't even preserve the cover image).
The Kindle itself does not natively support ePub. MOBI is being retired to favour AZW3, and Microsoft is moving to ePub.
I feel like a FreeBSD guru in the 90s, "YOU REBOOT???" but seriously, I don't recall ever having to reboot my Kindle except the time I tried to open a 500MB PDF and I should of known better.
I don't know if this is still the case, but the Kindle used to be a loss leader. So in theory, by purchasing one, using Calibre only and never purchasing ebooks from Amazon, you are causing Amazon to bleed revenue.
1: The desktop applications don't auto-sync. (I really like reading books on my laptop because it holds the screen at a comfortable angle. This is especially the case when reading while eating or doing something else with my hands.)
2: Sometimes the Android app is buggy, requiring that I reinstall. When I reinstall, I have to re-enter all my preferences.
3: Some of the default settings in the Android app are dumb, like showing popular highlights. I always turn that off as quickly as possible.
Not having to hack the device you supposedly own to avoid having ads as your screensaver? My Kindle is at the bottom of my closet for that reason. I haven't bought another physical e-reader, but if I do, it won't be a Kindle. I didn't want to go through the process of finding up-to-date instructions, waiting for a hack that would install on my hardware and software version, crossing my fingers to do the install, at the end of which I wouldn't even know if it was a victory for me or a victory for them that I was still using their product. So I stopped using it and won't buy another one.
Ad-supported or not has always been a choice for as long as Amazon has offered ad-supported kindles. I remember making this choice about 10 years ago, and I made this choice about a month ago when I bought my most recent Kindle.
If you bought it used or from a reseller, I don't know what to tell you, but Amazon gave you a choice if you bought it from them.
As a source, here is an Engadget article from the time when this option was introduced: https://www.engadget.com/2011-04-11-amazon-releases-ad-suppo...
You can clearly see that Amazon offered the "with Special Offers" version alongside the versions without "Special Offers". The ad-supported version was discounted by $25 back then. Nowadays, it appears to be a $20 difference on the Paperwhite.
https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/31/21117217/amazon-kindle-tr...
Further the conversion that they do is notoriously bad and often results in unreadable books. So you often have to tweak the ePub files before sending them to get a decent result. Calibre is essential to that process.
The AZW3 proprietary format is not something I want to struggle with in my day-to-day -- if anything goes wrong, it's a rabbit hole of reverse engineering. I like copying media to my ereader using cables, because sometimes I don't have a solid internet connection or it just feels wasteful to send a bunch of big files over email (if I'm on a tethered or metered internet connection, just sending a couple dozen books is easily in the hundreds of megabytes up and down).
Kobos are a much friendlier ecosystem, and are what I recommend to all family members who don't want their device shackled by Amazon. Easy to hook up to local libraries to borrow books on the fly, easy to copy DRM-free ebooks from online stores.
I have a Boox tablet myself because I love notetaking in nonfiction books and hand writing my notes in work meetings and journals.
The older kindles with 2G/3G "Whispersync" functionality had another major drawcard of working just about anywhere, even if you didn't have wifi coverage or a phone with data services. I have in the past used this to load several more books while in an airport in a foreign country between flights.
Many people if you hand them a Kindle can easily navigate the store and buy a book.
Without that built-in store, then they're now going to have a bunch more hurdles: they need a computer, internet access (or an offline store), the skill and ability to run and use Calibre, the knowledge of where to get eBooks from, how to get them in the right format (or convert them), etc.
It’s basically equivalent to Amazon and when you purchase from Kobo (or check out from local library) it shows up automatically when you sync via wifi.
They’ll even price match Amazon (credit for difference in cost +10% bonus) just by filling out a form.
https://github.com/koreader/koreader/wiki/Installation-on-Ko...
Equivalent Kindles seem to be much cheaper cheaper, though, and with overall better features and maintenance. And the store is much larger. The downside is obviously that you make yourself dependent on a fairly evil company that destroys culture and the lives of many aspiring authors. But most people don't care about that.
It doesn't have a backlight at all!
Kindles aren't much cheaper. Compare the Kindle Oasis to the Libra. All you really get is a metal case for an extra $100. And the stores are pretty similar in size with the exception of like self published books which IMO are worth stripping out of search...
I have around 50 books and a dozen of comic books on my e-reader.
It works perfectly without any connection whatsoever.
I'm not sure that being able to download a book while sitting on top of Mountain Everest it's a such an important feature, but YMMV.
that's not surprising.
it's the most popular e-reader.
anyway, base camp is not the top of the mountain :)
where they downloading e-books with the device 2g connection from there?
> The long battery life and light weight are ideal for long isolated stretches in the Himalayas.
modern e-readers last weeks on battery and weight less than 200 grams.
Someone able to prep for Everest knows to load all the ebooks they want on their Kindles before they leave home.
not to brag, but I am the same person who wrote
"I have around 50 books and a dozen of comic books on my e-reader.
It works perfectly without any connection whatsoever.
I'm not sure that being able to download a book while sitting on top of Mountain Everest it's a such an important feature"
The point being: you can preload years worth of reading material on e-books, a connection is not needed.
It was in response to a post that said
"The older kindles with 2G/3G "Whispersync" functionality had another major drawcard of working just about anywhere, even if you didn't have wifi coverage or a phone with data services"
It wasn't about mount Everest.
Sincerely yours
Yes. The nearest village (30 min walk) had cell towers when I was last there 7 years ago. I recall having surprisingly fantastic cell service in the entire Khumbu region.
However, I've never had the kind of battery life I'm seeing on my Kindle these days. It was always good (until my previous Paperwhite suddenly went toes up) but now it's amazing.
* Works in lots and lots of countries
* Great iOS and Android apps to supplement reading on Eink
* Well-priced devices, even if you pay to remove ads, that offer years and years of software support and are extremely durable/reliable
* Great hacking community and ability to use things like DeDRM to bring your purchases to other devices
* Insanely robust library that is far more consistent than other services.
* Ability to easily side-load other content via the Send to Kindle feature
* Audible integration/sync/discounts
If you prefer Kobo, that’s fine. But I’ve always seen it as the second-rate alternative owned by the second-rate Amazon (Rakuten). If I’m going to get tied into any ecosystem, I’d prefer for it to be the biggest/most active. But that’s just me.
Edit: formatting
PS: Yeah that wouldn't work for books with DRM. So might be its the problem.
My guess is that it doesn’t work in Canada because Kobo was a Canadian company before it was acquired and because Kobo’s owner used to own Overdrive (before it sold it to private equity a few years ago), but I could be wrong.
Obviously, if a device doesn’t work with the services you engage with, it’s probably not the service for you. But since Kindle does work with many, many library systems (and its arrangements with libraries predates Kobo’s existence), I think that’s more regional edge case and not a blanket reason to use one over the other, which is what OP was saying.
LOL, you think this is an _edge_ case? Feels pretty central from where me and the rest of the world are sitting...
I’m not going to pretend that’s the same for everyone, but I’m equally not going to pretend every person who has an e-reader is constantly getting stuff from the public library.
Meanwhile Amazon has been constantly messing with their proprietary format, DRM etc. Any book bought outside their store also almost always needs conversion too.
I don't have to say, imply, of even think that Amazon is "second-rate" to make myself feel secure about my decision. If anything I had to choose any word, it would be "monopolistic" or "vendor lock-in". But don't get me wrong: if Kobo changed their practices such that those words did apply, I would happily move elsewhere. (Kindle and Kobo are by no means the only companies out there.)
I also have a Remarkable 2 and a Boox Note Air that are obviously much more hackable.
I’ve reviewed many Kobo devices over the years. I do find them second-rate compared to what you can get from the Kindle line. That's my honest opinion. That isn’t me feeling insecure about my decision (I am an e-reader enthusiast and have reviewed dozens of devices and have the money to buy whatever device I want. I think Sony made the best devices if I’m really being honest, and they shut down their storefront over a decade ago and barely sell any units now), it’s my personal opinion and I said “I’ve always seen it as” — I didn’t declare that as fact. You disagree, which is fine!
I’m glad we have a choice of things. I still stand by my opinion that if I’m going to be tied down into an ecosystem, I’d rather be tied down to the one with the most books. And where I live, that’s Amazon.
* Also works in lots of countries
* Great iOS and Android apps
* Well-priced devices, and no ads to remove
* Great hacking community (even complete replacement software) and DeDRM support
* Insanely robust library that has never let me down
* Ability to easily side-load content without needing a send-to feature (plug it in and drag/drop, or use Calibre)
* No Audible, but (a) it's an ereader not an audio player (it does actually do mp3s though) and (b) Kobo have an audiobook store
So all in all, the Kobo has worse audiobooks but better hacking and side-loading. Even if you prefer Kindle over Kobo, it is clearly not second-rate. And as for the last comment about being tied into an ecosystem, that's purely an Amazon thing. Kobo don't require that kind of acquiescence.
One reason I'm stuck with Kindles is because Amazon makes it sane to look up words when reading Japanese books and articles.
When you use Amazon's "Send to my Kindle" service (eg, you email a book to yourself, and then it appears on your device), Amazon seems to do some kind of de-conjugation which magically knows how to break-apart terms and grammar so that you can easily look anything up. Normally, if uploading straight to your device, or if using a Kobo, a term you want to look up has to match your on-device dictionary exactly, which is clunky and awful, especially since Japanese doesn't use spaces and has lots of inflections.
If Kobo had something similar, I'd ditch using Kindles entirely.
Easy purchasing of ebooks from Amazon, combined with their large selection of ebooks.
Imagine explaining this to someone's grandma.
"Click this Amazon shortcut, type your book name up here, click on it down below, press 'buy now'. If it doesn't show up right away, wait 5 minutes and check again."
Versus... something to do with trying to download mobi files (from where?), starting calibre, starting an import process, locating said files (this is seriously harder than you think for most people), plugging your reader into your PC, running a sync process...
2. Go to "Kobo Store".
3. Look for a book.
4. Click "Buy".
5. Click the book to open it.
Thats about my workflow in the kobo, assuming I didn't drop a file on there via usb.
Honestly the grandma example is starting to feel dated. When I was born in 1980 a 50 year old grandma was born in 1930 and probably didn't own a TV until they were raising their own family.
The same 50 year old today was born in 1972 and would have been 5 when the Apple II hit the scene. At what point do we realize that eventually old folks will be those that only grew up with iphones and stop assuming that anyone with grey hear needs to be assumed to be technically incompetent.
This born in '69 53 year old right here is programming backends and frontends for websites, and PySide5/6 Qt5/6 applications.
I'm still sharp as a pin.
Like you say, there has to be some point at which those younger than I stop thinking someone in their 50's isn't as hopeless with technology as they assume.
Of course not everyone in my Gen X'er group will be like me, then again, I know of folks in their 20's who struggle with anything IT.
Quit with the ageism, people. It's getting old ;)
They didn’t get it. My mum is super smart and prolific. She has a PhD in international development and has helped tens of thousands of disadvantaged kids go to school.
It’s not that she’s not smart enough. She just doesn’t care about the technology. She’s not going to spontaneously get comfortable with the terminal and learn rsync. But she can install Dropbox no problem. If a kindle just works and has all the books in easy reach, that’s what I’ll recommend to her. She’s too busy to bother with software that’s not user friendly.
That’s not ageism. I think about her a lot when I build software because I respect her. She deserves to spend her day thinking about her job, not thinking about stupid tech problems.
It looks and acts like it was designed/coded by idiots; additional popups to remind me to rate the app (already did and it was very negative!), a popup with an "okay, got it" prompt - the only prompt - which instead of setting that yes, I actually did get it, just pops up again the next time reminding me to use some feature I don't want to use.
And so on.
That's obviously the fault of the people involved in vomiting out the abysmal application(s).
But yes I agree, most people simply don't care about the technology, they just want a Thing to do the thing they want it to do, no muss no fuss. This situation has always been the case and I can't envisage a time when it will change.
DRM free content consumed legally or illegally on the same device is simple as netflix.
Some old people know a thing or two.
Your stepdad sounds awesome :)
But in answer to your question, I suspect the cliche will slowly die out when most of the 60/70/80 year olds we meet are tech savvy.
- Your first computer given to you was probably a Chromebook at school. It is your browser. Every app is a web page. Docs, Sheets are all web pages. If you were rich or privileged you might have gotten a Macbook at school instead. But nearly everything is a web page. You use Google Docs with your friends and for group projects. I can count the people that had desktop versions of Word or Excel on one hand. You upload your videos to YouTube, presentations to Canvas or Google Drive, you don't bring in a flash drive. If you plug in a flash drive it might just show up as "External Storage (128 GB)" and not /sdcard or /media/USB0 or whatever. Even then, you don't really folder it up. You might use it to copy one file or a ton of images from one thing to another, then you format it when you're done. You don't just keep one around to build stuff up on, why bother, it's on The Cloud.
- You grow up with no hierarchical file organization. Imagine mobile. You have a "Pictures" tab I guess, and a "Downloads" tab? What else is there? You don't have album folders with FLAC files or anything; all your music streams, all your content streams, none of the apps that serve that content allow you to download them into the filesystem, if anything they do their best to prevent that. You don't have a filesystem path on iPhone. You have maybe tags and categories on Google Drive and you don't keep anything on it other than Sheets and Docs stuff that is listed by name, sorted by recent usage, and do not physically exist as files on the filesystem. Tap to select by thumbnail and Most Recent do an insane amount of work to hide what a folder is, nearly nothing but F/OSS f-droid apps on Android will expose things like /sdcard/Something or /sdcard0/emulated/Downloads. You get a selector of thumbnails.
- Mobile is first, always. Phones are cheaper than computers. Every kid has a phone, whether it's for legitimate use or for parents to abusively track them and monitor and record everything they do. Internet is always just kind of around you in the air, magically. You've never really had to think about how continents were connected, there never was a time in your life where the internet wasn't just magically all around you apart from during no signal areas. If you go to a location you ask for the wifi login. You don't ask where you plug in your ethernet cable. When you sign up for internet, unless you are specifically an enthusiast, your ISP gives you mesh wifi pods/gateway/whatever as the default. When you travel, hotel, coffeeshop, class, library, you get a wifi login. If you don't have wifi you use your phone or tether your laptop to your phone wifi.
- Rarely have a printer. If you print in class you weren't allowed to resolve paper jams yourself, and pro-tier laser printers almost never jammed even if you were doing 50+ pages at a time. When was the last time I had to print something? Your presentations are on Google Classroom/Google Drive/etc. Your homework is turned in online. Your concert tickets are on your phone with a moving barcode to prevent screenshotting (hope you have mobile service and it isn't too contended). Amazon returns are just dropped off and show them QR code, you don't print a label and they actively discourage you from choosing an option where you have to print a label.
You have to very actively seek out these things and want to learn, you can't passively pick it up like presumably in the past you had to tinker at least a little - tablets and phones are meant to force you to shut up and consume, not know about it. Chromebooks are intentionally locked down as hard as possible. Every app you use is probably a web page or a web page in a CEF wrapper.
For a long time now, they don't want typed and printed assignments; in fact some of my instructors in primary school would actually look upon these suspiciously - the default assumption is that if you are printing it out you are trying to bypass the anti-plagiarism system. That's also partially why every assignment is turned in online: your writing is run through one or more anti-plagiarism systems (and saved for later use against yourself and others).
Nowadays the most common use for my printer at home is making Amazon return labels.
It sounds like you're the person who could be the one to teach them this stuff, is that not an option?
Bill Gates is 66
Jeff Bezos is 58
I think they're doing ok.
Most younger people are also really bad at using computers.
No, not because they're ruined by smartphones—because most people seem to find most current operating systems and computer systems in general unintuitive and hard to understand. They always have and seemingly always will, unless/until UIs and core metaphors in computer interfaces change significantly.
The typical experience of most non-nerds using a computer, no matter their age, is repeating some steps they memorized and hoping the right thing happens. They don't make connections between functionality (say, thinking to try copy-pasting a file, not just selected text), they don't experiment because it usually gets them in some state they don't know how to get out of without help, and any change to UI layout or any kind of pop-up notification confuses the hell out of them. Desktop computers are mysterious, frustrating things. Observe some workers in a non-tech office using their work computers for a while and you'll see what I mean.
As an aside, I work with many folks around 50 and most of them are functionally technologically illiterate. It doesn't seem like such a strange assumption to make from where I'm sitting.
If you're talking old enough to be, say, a college student's grandma, then obviously your 70-90 estimate is much more likely.
(Bigger picture: I've been professionally programming for three-and-a-half decades. I find myself more and more annoyed by the user-unfriendliness of tech as I age. As an on-topic example, earlier this month Amazon's mail-to-Kindle feature rejected an EPUB I sent it, and when I used Calibre to convert it to MOBI and sent that instead, lectured me that MOBI was obsolete. I guess this is especially annoying because it seems like they're replacing a service which basically never failed with one that is failing like 10% of the time I try to use it...)
To a reasonable approximation:
- Grandmothers of infants are between the ages of 40 and 80
- Grandmothers of HN commenters are between the ages of 55 and (dead for decades)
Most people of all ages are functionally technologically illiterate.
Many people around 50 are functionally literate in different technologies than you are. Those may be less relevant, or merely invisible to you as a user.
You can access it via Kobo e-reader, same as accessing Amazon's store on a Kindle. Somewhat more limited selection, but both contain Big Five publishers (Hachette, HarperCollins, Macmillan, Penguin Random House, Simon and Schuster) that own hundreds if not thousands of imprints.
Calibre/OPDS server/custom software (like koreader) are an added bonus for the techies, but it's absolutely not a requirement. If your requirement is ease-of-use, there's no difference. If your requirement is a hacker-friendly device, you can do it on both, but it's in my experience somewhat easier to do on a Kobo.
Also, Amazon isn't as easy as it sounds - I used it a few times and found it quite confusing to get it on my Kindle after purchasing on Amazon. And its a nightmare as I moved country and would prefer to purchase a larger selection of ebooks in English from my home country etc. but I have a separate Amazon account and stuff.. that was even more confusing.
- click apps (if it's not the default screen)
- click "whatever has store in the name"
- buy the book
- rinse and repeat
I'm sure anybody can learn how to do it, even if the brand it's not Bezos's.
An ebook is searchable, gives me instant access to a dictionary, doesn't take up space in my house, I can read in the dark, it's more comfortable to hold, and I can set the font to a size that works for my aging eyes. That $10 ebook of The Dog Stars is a much better value for me than a $4 paperback copy.
Paper books have their place too. For example, I want physical cookbooks that I can leave open on a stand as I work in the kitchen.
Most of the cost is in labor to write and edit the book, which still needs to happen for ebooks.
1. I don't have to store all the physical books I would have acquired over the decades.
2. I can carry around a large number of those beloved books with me at all times.
3. I can vary the font size, which my ageing eyes appreciate.
Availability. I can get the Kindle delivered the same day (or) the next from a village(Now a corporation) in Southern India. Once my Kindle didn't wake up, Got it replaced within couple of days near the end or after warranty period.
That said, I'm with you and wouldn't be buying a Kindle again. It's Value/Price is low for its utility, Especially since Amazon is locking up the device and has started interrupting bulk emails from approved email addresses. Also since I have started to limit my purchases from Amazon.
Now, I have to pester my friends and family from overseas to buy the Ereader not available here (or) Order one with international shipping and pray that the customs don't hold it and charge me a kidney(Compute devices are often charged 2x-3x the cost as excise duty!).
Just stating that while I understand what you meant, it could be confusing to others not familiar with subdivisions of India (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Municipal_corporation_(India))
I chose this Kobo for its bigger screen, as well as hackability. It was cheaper than a corresponding Kindle. Also, I knew I could easily install Koreader [1] in it, pretty much the only UI I have been using for many years now. I'm glad I did.
However, and this is important. Though happy with this Kobo, truth is that it feels cheaper. I keep it on a good case, and I use it with care, as I'm pretty sure it won't survive any fall from whatever height I may drop it. And my previous Kindle, a paperwhite 4, had its tumbles, and survived them quite nicely. And not exactly because I was fortunate. So there's that.
But don't get me wrong. I'm not Kindle-nostalgic. I just have enough experience with both to know what I can reasonably expect from my current device.
I'm not telling you or anyone to buy a Kindle, but from a VERY quick look my Kindle cost half of what a Kobo costs (tolino seems to be available around the 70-80€ mark though and so far has worked fine although the default seems to be some nasty Adobe ebook management software). Maybe 150 or 200 is worth it to you if you use it all the time, but for me it was mostly 1-2 books a month, which weren't necessarily cheaper than on paper.
I can get a Kobo Nia for $130 CAD (about €100), a base model Kindle is $120 CAD. They are very close in price and on the high end the Kobo is cheaper and offers more.
I didn't make up the numbers above, I just quickly looked at geizhals.de for a comparison - maybe Kobo-branded Kobos are exceptionally expensive here then.
I don't have a tolino myself, but gave support to a family member in the recent past, that's why I've held one and used the software. That one was sold by a physical book store chain.
But overall that doesn't change my main point - or maybe Kindles have gone up in price, I'm pretty sure I paid closer to 70€ than 100€, which is still 1/3. Could be that it was a sale, and they don't even have that base model anymore, but as I said I was 100% happy with it.
Can confirm - I am currently using a ~12 year old Kindle 3rd gen, with no problem at all. In fairness it hasn't seen very heavy use but even for the battery and electronics to have held up for that long, often being stored in sub-optimal conditions, is fairly impressive IMO.
I strongly dislike Amazon and its walled garden but I dislike waste more so I have no intention of upgrading before I have to. I mostly use my ereader to read free ebooks downloaded from Gutenberg/Standard Ebooks/etc anyway.
I'd imagine something like < 1% of Kindle owners use Calibre, so presumably the value prop is... an e-reader that works well without needing any external software.
Most people just buy books from Amazon I expect, so they don't really need multi-format support.
My experience was that the Kindle's responsiveness to changes (next/previous/moving around in the OS) was better, just significant enough to be bothering me when I was using the Kobo.
I lost my paperwhite so replaced it last week and the quality has really really dipped. Also it was the cheapest kindle but cost more than I originally spent in my paperwhite…
I’m returning it next week when I finish my current book.
It's super-legible, has enormous memory, is water resistant, and has buttons for page-turning.
Other than Kindle books that arrive directly after buying, I send books to it via email through Calibre, which removes DRM in the process. Calibre also did the mobi conversion, and now this step is not even necessary anymore.
I bought my Oasis 2 around for closet to 299 EUR (309.97 USD) when I was making 30k USD a year, was 100% worth it to me while I still had a fully functional kindle keyboard and kindle paperwhite 3. If you're a casual reader, that might seem expensive, but if you are chewing through 1-3 books a week like I do (heck I read 3 books last time I flew from Indianapolis to San Francisco and 2 more on the return flights), it becomes a much better price.
I've been using it for almost 5 years now which has me at a cost of 17 cents per day with thousands of hours of use (about 8 cents an hour if I had to guess).
While it's still working (and the keyboard is so nice to use to type in notes) the plastic case has become "sticky" and a kind of thick film comes off in places. It's strange and very unpleasant.
Recently the battery died, I refurbished it with a new battery from Aliexpress and it came back to life. When the Oasis arrived I gave the 3G to my kids.
Now that Amazon seems to be interested in strong DRM, I expect a legislative solution to book DRM is our only long term hope.
My main use for my Kindle ($99, early 2015 model) is from library systems that use Libby/Overdrive. It’s super easy to check out a book and have it delivered to my kindle. Kindle supports whatever DRM is used to return the book when the loan period is over. And I don’t have to feel guilty about bypassing DRM on the service.
What’s the process like for the Kobo?
I'd love not buying Kindle if I knew what to get but every-time I look into it, seems like people suggesting similar products for marginally worse prices or its just personal preference of the person with no real justification.
#1 reason: out of those three, Kindle is or was the only ebook vendor I could crack with DeDRM and actually own my books. With Kindle for PC 1.17, I can still pull down my books and import them to my Calibre library for safe keeping.
Can one DeDRM their Nook or Kobo files in 2022?
PS: Kobo typography was noticably worse than Kindle in 2014. Again, it may have changed.
PPS: I wish the symmetrical origami cover of the voyage was more used. I lay in bed and flip from side to side while reading. A book like cover or one that just is meant for vertical support is not sufficient for my use case.
Besides this, from an ergonomic point of view, the kindle oasis is better than the kobo sage, it's lighter, feels better in hand. The Kobo forma is better than the sage in term of ergonomy but when I had mine it broke after 13 months.
Having to convert epubs to azw3 is the only minor inconvenience.
The device itself seems pretty good (hardware). I don't own one, but I'm looking at the Kindle Paperwhite now and I can't find anything better for the same price. If you do, please let me know.
Yes, the lack of ePUB support sucks, but you can convert to Amazon's format pretty easily from what I've read.
I have previously had problems (I dont know if its still a problem) with being allowed to buy US books from other ebook stores, like kobo, when I did not have a US credit card.
All the talk of conversions and Calibre etc in the thread is possibly muddying the waters as it is totally unnecessary if you just want to mirror the Kindle flow.
But it is Sold Out
Sigh
That's exactly how Kobo do it too, from their own bookstore on the web or from the device itself.