Walking Tokyo for Seven Days | Hacker News Reader

Walking Tokyo for Seven Days

craigmod.com

157 pointscmod122 comments

Looking forward to reading this. Walking is truly the best way to discover a city, and even yourself.

On a personal experience, when I arrived to Tokyo for a month long vacation in Japan, I had planned going to the Tsukiji Market tuna auctions that first day. It was about 2 in the morning, I had just gotten off a plane, not really tired but the jet lag would kill me for sure, so the plan to counter jet lag would be to not sleep that day and rest the day after and sort of get in sync that way.

Now, I don't know how it is now with the new market, but to be able to see the tuna auction you had to be at the market extremely early so, it being 2am seemed a perfect excuse to just walk. I walked for about 2h and when I arrived to the market I found out that day was a holiday in Japan and there would be no auctions that day. Disappointed, tired, I saw on google maps there was an Onsen nearby (around 1h30 away) so I kept walking to Odaiba. The Onsen in question used to be open something like 23h a day which was great for me at 5am.

Now that was one hell of a way to relax after that long walk. Never rested that hard in my life.

I recently discovered scooters (lime, bird, etc), and have to say that they now compete with walking for me.

upsides versus walking: - 10x further distances - 10 blocks feels like 1, it's simply amazing. You can see parts of the city that are impractically far or bordered by boring/industrial zones.

upsides versus biking: - slow enough to "take in" the sights, where biking definitely feels like you've "lost" something. - more stable / feels safer - much easier to stop & start, and easy to lock up for a few minutes. - about the same speed as manual bikes (in practice) but slower than e-bikes

real downsides: - safety: if there's no bike lanes, then scooters can become hazardous. In particular, because they travel quickly, you can be safe one minute and then quickly have conditions degrade. The risks of medical attention vary by city - developing countries can have limited medical care; US medical care is $$$$. - disallowed & slow zones: it can be *VERY* annoying to have the scooter beeping at you, refuse to go, refuse to lock etc. And the GPS is imperfect, so you can be on the border of a legal zone and have it stop. I've had to walk scooters many times. - cargo: tough to carry significant cargo, e.g. groceries quickly become hazardous.

perceived downsides: - return-anxiety: what if there's no scooters? ==> rarely happens, but if so, then take an uber! - range-anxiety: what if it runs out of juice? ==> I've ridden a lot and never come close... - one scooter available for two people? ==> if you're careful, you can put two people on a scooter, then scoot to the next scooter (apps all have maps of available scooters)

Another real downside to scooters is to miss out on a low-intensity physical activity that makes your body feel good. A day of activity, walking or bicycling, does wonders.

Good point. But in my experience scooting was always paired with a lot of walking as well.

Put another way, scooting is the "skip to the next track" of walking.

Just now: 10,000 steps plus a scooter ride passed the boring parts of downtown which I'd already seen. Just ordered Persian food at a tiny place in a cute neighborhood there's no way I'd have walked to, and not on the subway line.

I did this for a week in Paris (late 2019, there was a strike and the metro had like 2 functional lines). In the afternoon of Christmas Eve got a yen to go to Montmarte, grabbed a scooter near Etoile and in short order got to experience the C.E. mass at Sacré-Cœur. The enhanced mobility is amazing, and its a great way to explore various alleys and neighborhoods. Frankly I was pleasantly surprised at how the Paris drivers coexisted with us on scooters. I felt perfectly safe.

Don't you just ride on the bicycle lanes? Why wouldn't that be safe?

iirc, there is a lane for buses and bikes, which is mainly what I used. But then there are the circles and intersections, and narrower streets naturally only have so much space.

> I recently discovered scooters (lime, bird, etc), and have to say that they now compete with walking for me.

FYI, these are illegal to use in Japan without a license. They require the same license that low CC motor bikes/mopeds require in Japan. They also require license plates.

If Japan's law enforcement for this is anything like Germany's, this only applies if you're actually breaking traffic laws --- as in, the police will never stop you normally unless you cross a red or something, and only then they will fine you (for crossing a red + using a scooter without a license).

In my (relatively light) understanding, Japan in general doesn't really do selective enforcement. If they see you riding a scooter without a license plate they'll pull you over right away.

You even need a registration for your bike in Japan. As a foreigner you would be randomly pulled over to be checked. As for scooters, this is such a different way/level of experience than walking. They cant be compared. Personally I when using a scooter i’m more looking out for potholes than seeing anything of the city. Walking is so much slower and allows you to make meaningful connections also with the inhabitants of a place (even pickpockets ;)

Right, but these public e-scooters (like Bird, Lime, etc) all have license plates by default --- and that's why they generally won't pull you over unless you are breaking traffic rules. By all means, if it doesn't have a license plate at all I think you'd get pulled over in Germany also.

Japan’s law enforcement is nothing like Germany’s. As long as you’re on their good side they’re great but they have something like a 99% conviction rate and the punishments are harsh.

> upsides versus biking: - slow enough to "take in" the sights, where biking definitely feels like you've "lost" something.

Are you riding a road bike that requires you be hunched over/encourages high speeds or are you riding an upright city bike? Because I mostly ride the latter and I think it’s a lot closer to the experience you describe with scooters.

For example: https://www.huffpost.com/archive/ca/entry/upright-bike-vanco...

Upright city bike (rented). I love riding bikes and it's very easy for me, but still not as "open" as scooters e.g. getting on/off.

Walking is simpler and easier in most cases though. I find that the issue is more about how far people are capable of walking (e.g. fitness levels in much of Europe and Asia are better) and the fact that most people here have walked long distances from a young age.

Sorry I value my time too much: yes I walk long distances but miles through boring suburbs, industrial zones, office parks - nah.

I remember seeing an Andy Rooney segment on 60 Minutes back when he was alive, and he bought a small motor scooter to navigate New York City with. I'll never forget his conclusion.

"It's too fast to be safe on the sidewalks, but too slow to be used in traffic. So I packed it back in its box and put it in a closet, never to be used again."

Agree: bike lanes are the answer.

just walk

> - return-anxiety: what if there's no scooters? ==> rarely happens, but if so, then take an uber!

> - range-anxiety: what if it runs out of juice? ==> I've ridden a lot and never come close...

Perhaps you have not ridden one very far then. I have encountered both of these problems at once riding across a downtown thinking there will be more live scooters on the other side and ended up with quite a walking journey back, uphill.

>Disappointed, tired, I saw on google maps there was an Onsen nearby (around 1h30 away) so I kept walking to Odaiba. The Onsen in question used to be open something like 23h a day which was great for me at 5am. >Now that was one hell of a way to relax after that long walk. Never rested that hard in my life.

If the onsen you went to is the one I'm thinking of, I have some bad news: it closed in September of last year.

https://www.timeout.com/tokyo/news/odaiba-hot-spring-theme-p...

Much of Odaiba is currently closed for renovation/rebuilding.

LaQua is probably the closest equivalent now in Tokyo, although it lacks the {kitschy,fun} Ye Olde Tokyo theme of Oedo Onsen. But hey, you get a roller coaster instead.

https://www.laqua.jp/en/

That sucks. It wasn't the best onsen but the fake Edo area was entertaining.

Yeah, I heard something about that. Shame because once tourists are properly allowed back in japan I was thinking of going there again.

Crap, I’d been thinking of going there ever since I arrived in Japan 9 years ago but never made it :/

As an immigrant who walked everywhere where I grew up, this is one of the things I miss the most about living in America. Walkable neighborhoods are rare in most parts of the US, let alone the cities. I wish we had more places to walk. Sigh.

In the U.S. walking has even been criminalized to some extent for those in out groups. For instance, if 4 black teenage boys walk together in an affluent, white neighborhood they can expect police to stop them. Walking is so rare that a small group of people walking together is seen as something out of the ordinary. I think it’s bad for society to be set up this way.

https://illinoislawreview.org/print/vol-2017-no-3/the-crimin...

Well the issue can be even more profound than that: areas that actually physically cannot be walked at all (excluding technicalities like walking on busy roads). On the bright side, you can't be arrested for walking somewhere that doesn't even let you walk there.

That is something I’ve never encountered anywhere except bridges. Just because there’s no road there doesn’t mean you can’t walk (unless the space next to the road is air/water).

> unless the space next to the road is air/water

Or rock.

To be clear, the technicality I was excluding was the 'technically you can always walk on the road' part. In places without footpaths your choices often require walking on the road because of fences etc. even if momentarily that's still a horrible walking experience that will effectively cut pedestrians to zero. Also, gigantic highways across which the crossings are separated by kilometres will effectively segregate areas from anyone who has no car.

Can you please cite some sources where it has been criminalized (made illegal) as you claim?

There’s a link in the post you responded to. That’s the source you are looking for.

That link is not the source.

I see reference to jaywalking. The argument was "Walking is so rare that a small group of people walking together is seen as something out of the ordinary."

While I skimmed the 20+ page PDF two clicks into the "reference", I still don't see cases where walking itself has been criminalized. Of course people can walk places they shouldn't (and whether they should be allowed or not is debatable) but I really don't see anything about walking itself being criminalized as the comment argues.

So I asked a question for clarification, instead of posting about the fact the comment was conjecture.

There is no law that says walking is illegal. There are laws that prevent loitering which has a side effect of encouraging people to not hang out outside. Particularly if you don’t “belong” in the area. Knowing that you will be harassed by police even if you are doing nothing other than walking with too many friends is a form of de facto criminalization. What is being talked about is the effect of living in a culture that does not value or understand a need for walking and the attitude of police forces in this regard. Again, there is no law that says walking is illegal.

As lawyers sometimes say, you can win the case in court but will you survive the time spent in jail waiting for the trial? Effective criminalization is not limited to just what is written in the law.

I walked a block with a friend yesterday next to a relatively busy feeder and someone in a passing car screamed at us. It's not a rare occurrence, I have plenty of memories of walking to the nearby gas station convenience store as a 13 year old and the same happening.

People really underestimate how antisocial people are to walkers in the US.

There's something dehumanizing about seeing most others on your commute as large metal fortresses instead of actual human beings.

Yes but that is nothing to do with walkable cities.

of course it does have to do with walkabale cities.

to walk in a city that is not set-up for walking is clearly an odd thing to do.

if the city were set-up for walking and people walked it, a group of 4 persons walking wouldn't be an oddity

You could bet you that those four people would have the same thing happen to them in Japan's walkable cities as well. It is nothing to do with walkable cities.

at least have enough courage to admit that 4 teenagers would make you nervous. there's nothing wrong with being alert. teenagers can be dangerous and unpredictable. the dividing line IMO, would be behaving preemptively in such a scenario.

4 teenagers would not make me nervous. Happens many times per day for many of us. Parent comments are talking about something different than "common sense" or "being alert". Profiling is a real thing that many people have to deal with.

A second order effect of criminalization of walking is a culture that does not value walkability. People are so accustomed to non walkability and so unaccustomed to groups of people strolling about that it does not even occur to them to think about what a loss this is.

But this assertion was more about racism than walkable cities.

The claim still works without the element of racism. In the extreme car-centric areas of the US you're regarded a weirdo for walking anywhere by members of your own race.

This article doesn't talk about "walking" though. It talks about two things - jaywalking, i.e. walking in places designed for motor vehicle traffic, and minor children walking on public street unaccompanied by adults. While both have arguments in favor of current regulation being excessive (the latter probably has much stronger case, my whole generation's childhood is "child endangerment" by these laws, I wonder how we survived) - you comment implies it's about generic walking and racial angle, which it is not.

Around where I live, there are large residential areas with no sidewalks at all. It blew my mind when we first moved here. I still don’t understand the reasoning behind it. Some of those areas are in the hills with winding roads, it’s pretty scary walking there, having to be constantly on alert.

This is not just a US thing. I have definitely been outside of towns in the UK for example where there are no sidewalks and walking along the narrow country lanes with zero shoulder is scarier than most places I've experienced in the US.

I remember when I was younger, that in many suburban neighborhoods it was common (i.e. expected) that everyone would walk around the block after dinner. You'd see all these couples walking slowing, chatting with neighbors, and basically showing their face.

That probably died in the 90s.

There's a lot to be said about Tokyo and how easy it is to get around on foot and live without a car. It's kind of a surreal dreamscape of unbroken high density urbanity that makes you rethink how large highly functional cities can be.

One of the challenges for seeing it on foot though is how effective the public transit is, especially the underground rail systems. You end up seeing islands around transit stations but not the stretches in between. It's totally worth it sometimes to skip the train and just walk the entire way as there's lots of interesting stuff in the "out of the way" bits of the city.

I'd recommend taking Yamanote-sen and Chuo/Sobu-sen and walking the interior.

It saves a lot of money with a JR Rail pass not taking the subway, if you have the time and the weather is nice.

Yeah, I was getting my Japanese visa and noticed the office wasn't that far from Shinagawa Station, so I decided to walk. Everyone thought it was super-weird I would walk that, where any Tokyo native would take the bus. It was 2km, so, there's a data point on what's considered an excessive walk in Tokyo.

But I'm a person who would take a whole Saturday and spend 8hr walking through San Francisco or Seattle or NYC for fun, so, biased data point.

>makes you rethink how large highly functional cities can be.

And how exteremely safe

>It's kind of a surreal dreamscape of unbroken high density urbanity

the funny thing is Tokyo's not even that dense, about a third as dense as Paris or Barcelona, and very sprawlish and suburban (IIRC 75% of the city is suburbs) but transit is indeed excellent and at least they don't inhibit construction to run a housing value racket.

But the suburbs themselves are interesting in tokyo! There are always bars, shops, shrines, gardens, rivers, playgrounds...I've never found that sort of liminal neighbourhood made of rows and rows of identical houses with no one out in the street as I've found in America and Europe.

I visited Tokyo in 2019 and went to the top of the Skytree. It was one of the few times in my life where my mind was completely blown. The scale of the city from the viewing point of 450m had me spaced out staring into the distance trying to comprehend the vast scale. If you ever get the opportunity to go I can't recommend it enough, Try going on a clear day about an hour before sunset and watch the city transform. Photos really can't do it justice.

I think the incredible part is that even from 450m high you cannot see the end. It’s just city as far as the eye can see.

That's what blew my mind, I remember having the thought of what if you lost someone, where would you even begin to look.

I had a similar experience there as well. To me Tokyo is "The Infinite City". I've never experienced anything quite like it and I say this as somebody who lives in the virtually unbroken urban mega corridor and travel regularly to Seoul.

Looking down at the nearby highrises feels absolutely surreal. There are more observatories deeper in the city, like the Tokyo metropolitan government building (which is also free), while only about half as tall, will I think give you a nicer view of just city around you on every side.

I'll also recommend, the Shinjuku Government Building (for free), but also Mori Tower, Shibuya Skyview, and Tokyo Tower for ~Y1000 each.

Mori Tower is excellent.

I will add Sunshine City in Ikebukuro to this list.

Tokyo isn't really a city - it's a metropolis made up of several cities.

As a european i got into the habbit of walking between popular city neighborhoods to find hidden gems. I did that in Tokyo, and that was a really big mistake. I ended up walking next to a huge higway, looking at bland buildings for like 20 minutes, feeling completely lost in the middle of nowhere.

I thought about it a lot and came to the conclusion that tokyo wasn't one big city but in fact tenth of small cities linked together.

It is, in fact, a cluster of municipalities. Tokyo isn't considered a city anymore but a megalopolis.

Per Wikipedia:

  Since 2001, Tokyo consists of 62 municipalities: 23 special wards, 26 cities, 5 towns and 8 villages. Any municipality of Japan has a directly elected mayor and a directly elected assembly, each elected on independent four-year cycles.

It's interesting to see when you cross from "neighborhood" to "neighborhood", how things change as if you were in the outskirts of a city and then back to a busy center again.

That is kind of what it is, yes: "Tokyo Metropolis [which] consists of 23 special wards and 39 other, ordinary municipalities (cities, towns, and villages). [...] Today, all wards refer to themselves as a city in English, but the Japanese designation of special ward (tokubetsu-ku) remains unchanged" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_wards_of_Tokyo)

Some of these wards consist of high rise buildings only, some are residential areas with hidden alleys and family-friendly environment. As a fellow European who lived in Tokyo for one year, I cannot support your statement but your experience walking around highly depends on where in Tokyo you are. For some wards, you are probably entirely correct. However, other wards allow for the experience shared by others here.

Yeah it eas the wrong technique, the interesting stuff is public transit and commerce driven. So there are a million JR and subway stops. If you got off at every single stop in existence and walked concentric circles around it, you'd find out the relative importance of each station as a destination and or transit hub and you'd find everything interesting and know exactly when to stop making bigger circles around a station by the reduction in things to see. And that's still an incredible mind blowing amount of land area you'd have to walk

I’ve walked Tokyo a lot, and I think you’re drawing an odd conclusion from a sample size of 1.

Tokyo is basically centered along an orbital railway line, so if you were to walk out from this line that you would be basically walking to the suburbs with suburban highway roads to take you to the outskirts. And furthermore Tokyo is indeed based along walkable neighborhoods that are grouped into cities.

Walking between any of the popular neighborhoods in Tokyo, I’m surprised you managed that.

Even if you are walking on a large road, you can basically always jump to a smaller parallel road to arrive back in wonderland.

I spent about a month walking around Tokyo in 2008. I cam before university started and I would just walk around an area and systematically go through all the little alleys and sidestreets. Other people who arrived just before the semester never had time to do the same and never built the same understanding of the city. I had a dumbphone so there wasn't anyway to turn off your brain and just find places to discover through a list.

I'm sure this isn't allowed anymore, but when I went to Tokyo over 10 years ago, me and my friend were just wandering around aimlessly. On a whim we decided to find the tallest building we could and go to the very top floor to see what the city looked like.

So, we spotted the tallest tower near us (a totally random and generic office tower), got into the building, and took the elevator to the very top floor to peer out a window.

I still remember what the view was like. It was an endless city as far as I could see.

People can also visit and go up the Tokyo Metropolitan Government Building for free in Shinjyuku. A neat view of the city. Walking through Meiji Jinguu is also pretty nice. I like walking from Shinjyuku, through Meiji Jingu and getting to Shibuya (~1h)

https://www.yokoso.metro.tokyo.lg.jp/en/tenbou/index.html

So there's no content yet, and this is just an ad at this point?

Pretty much, however I can vouch for the quality of the poster’s other newsletters.

He’s also very good about sending only what he says he’s going to send, when he says he’ll send it and deleting the list afterwards.

Of course, you need to deal with the quirk of the material only being available by email, which isn’t the worst fate in the world.

I had never heard of a popup newsletter. What a wonderful idea and concept. Are there more popup newsletters launching anytime soonish?

But I'm a person who would take a whole Saturday and spend 8hr walking through San Francisco or Seattle or NYC for fun.

I averaged 16400 steps a day for the entire year in Japan.

I don’t think walking is weird, but the route from Shinagawa station to the immigration office is weird. I’ve walked that route. It’s an industrial area and nothing to see.

This is the first time I came across a "pop-up" newsletter which automatically unsubscribes you after the project is done. What a neat idea. Love it.

Craig is the one writer and photographer I know who captures the beautiful aspects of quotidian life in Japan.

How safe is Tokyo really? I ask, because Japan is considered one of the safest countries in the world.

However even the first picture (on the right side) shows that windows have bars - probably to secure the building against thieves? How much theft is there in Japan?

edit: even more visible bars are on the window on the left side

Barely any. I’ve forgotten my backpack on the train and my wallet at the supermarket and felt pretty secure they’d still be there when I returned hours/a day later, and they were. I leave my laptop unattended in cafes and nobody takes it. My friend only had his city bike stolen after 4+ years of not owning a bike lock. Women can generally wander the streets alone at 3am without worry. You still should have some amount of common sense and probably not do the above lightly, but knowing that your actual chances of getting in trouble is low is a great thing.

Most of the crime I hear of is stuff like people getting ripped off in rip off bars; perverts taking up skirt photos in crowded trains; desperate people taking insanely bad loans from loan sharks and then being intimidated to pay them; and the occasional off the chain beheading once ever now and then. Hence the general bewilderment when Abe got shot.

I spent a few weeks in Japan and it was the safest I've probably ever felt.

Interestingly though there was one night I went out and my friend living in that city was glad I didn't get harassed for being gaijin - apparently the area I went out in is notorious for people being rough on foreigners (somewhere in Fukuoka close to 10 years ago)

> My friend only had his city bike stolen after 4+ years of not owning a bike lock.

My friend had something similar after claiming you didn’t need to lock your bike in Japan. Only they didn’t take his bike. They locked it, and took just the key. It still brings a smile to my face to think about it.

Those look like railings to me, more for safety than for security.

> However even the first picture (on the right side) shows that windows have bars - probably to secure the building against thieves? How much theft is there in Japan?

I think the bars are more for protection against flying debris during typhoons or to protect children from falling out of open windows.

I live in Tokyo. It's a very safe city and you can walk around even in the evening/night (maybe it's best not to at *LATE* night, but still) without many issues. Obviously, there's still "bad people" no matter where you go on this planet, so you can't just drop your guard completely (especially in very tourist-heavy neighborhoods with people waiting to take advantage of you). In the 3 or so years I've lived here, the worst I've had was hearing people shout drunk at night every once in a while in my neighborhood. Oh, and also an old man with a wooden sword going nuts against another old man with a hammer but the police was called and they got both taken away, seemed like some family feud or some stuff at like 3am under my window.

Regardless, if you live on the ground floor (or even higher floors), having bars on your windows is relatively common/normal/advisable no matter where you are. I'm in a high rise building on a high floor and my windows have bars but it feels more like an architectural design than anything (also it prevents people from accidentally falling off, especially if you have kids or pets). They also prevent stalkers or laundry thieves, which are sometimes common (unfortunately), especially towards women.

It's so safe that expats who return to their home countries after spending a few years there often report needing to relearn basic "street smarts" personal awareness and safety practices.

There’s a tradition in Japan of sending 3yo kids on their first errand by themselves. There was even a tv show about it.

In my experience, Tokyo, and Japan overall, is maybe the safest city/country in the world.

I've lived and worked in San Francisco and downtown San Jose, been to NYC many times, etc.

I felt the safest in Tokyo at 11PM than any of those other places.

The only places I felt a bit uncomfortable at night were super touristy areas, like Shinjuku's Kabukicho, because some bars/clubs have "hawks" or "tauts" that will try to get you to come inside, where they may drug/rob you. Usually Nigerians, but I saw some Japanese doing it as well.

Just need to have some street smarts not to go with random strangers into places like that.

Just goes to show that there's always something new to discover, even in a place you've called home for over 20 years.

Good plan. I think Shibuya changed the most from a bird's eye view. But there's new developments all over as usual.

That one photo looks like it might have been taken near Sangubashi.

It's definitely a section on the Toden Arakawa Line, the last surviving streetcar line in Tokyo. The catenaries look like them, especially the 3rd one in with the tower-like structures. Those are likely the ones built over 100 years ago when the line opened.

My best guess is this crossing that's just a little bit south of the Shin-Koshinzuka station: https://www.google.com/maps/@35.740949,139.7302377,43m

I've been learning Japanese for a couple decades now, and I've never heard a cafe called a "kissa". Always "kissaten". It feels like the author just make up their own slang for another language, and that doesn't feel good at all.

In addition, they wrote a book about visiting a bunch of cafes, and then they're going to leave that book in random other cafes that didn't get put into the book? I can't imagine I'd be very happy about that as a cafe owner. Especially since the book was written by a foreigner (gaijin), and the Japanese still aren't very cool with foreigners, in general. "No gaijin allowed" is still a fairly common sign for some businesses, as I understand it. It seems rather tone deaf.

> "No gaijin allowed" is still a fairly common sign for some businesses, as I understand it.

I've lived in Japan for two years, been back several times since, and traveled extensively within the country -- and I've never seen any such sign, nor asked to leave any business because I was a foreigner.

I've been here seven years. Can't say I've seen it either. The server industry has been nothing but hospitable.

They're less and less common but they very much still exist, especially small bars. I haven't encountered any outside of Tokyo though.

I didn’t see a sign at the time, but I’ve been asked to leave after the server confirmed we couldn’t read Japanese. Honestly didn’t think much of it, just assumed it was because the menu was only in Japanese.

Probably because Google says “喫茶” translates to “coffee shop”?

> "No gaijin allowed" is still a fairly common sign for some businesses, as I understand it.

Really? In what language? I’ve never seen such a thing, but I don’t get out much.

There are certainly places that don’t want to cater to foreigners, with reasons ranging from can’t provide proper service in other languages to, I assume, virulent racism. But all they have to do is not accommodate any foreign language, and they won’t get any foreigner business.

Publicly stating it on a sign like that seems pretty unexpected.

I went to Japan a few years ago and also encountered some shops which had signs that said "no foreigners allowed". It was somewhere in Kyoto if I'm remembering correctly.

Nobody bothered me or was disrespectful at any point in my trip.

Edit: it was in small back alley shops which had long lines of various restaurants. You had to really poke around to end up in those hidden spots.

I saw it a couple of times in the mid 2000s; once in front of a strip joint and once in, slightly bizarrely, an Internet cafe, pointed out by the owner who then asked us to leave. I’ve never seen once since though.

I’m gonna agree with everyone else. I’ve lived in Japan for years and never seen a sign like that.

Kissa is a common short form, particularly for themed cafes: jazz kissa, manga kissa, maid kissa, etc.

In general, nearly any common long word in Japan gets truncated down to three morae. Kissaten -> kissa, McDonalds -> Makudonarudo -> makudo, Brad Pitt -> Buraddo Pitto -> burapii, etc.

> McDonalds -> Makudonarudo -> makudo

Fun fact, makudo (マクド) is how they call it in kansai (osaka, etc). makku (マック) is how they call it in kanto (tokyo, etc).

Oh, I was going to correct him. Never heard it called anything other than makku.

But yeah, Kanto ;)

I didn’t know what kansai/kanto were, so here’s an article I liked explaining one view of the differences: https://www.tofugu.com/japan/kansai-vs-kanto/

I currently live in Japan and I have never come across a jazz kissa, though Jazz outlets do exist in some multicultural/expat areas they aim themselves for foreign clientele. Also kissa is a rarely used term in my opinion with other slang being preferred outside 漫画喫茶。

I think jazz cafes and jazz bars are a common thing in parts of Japan, although they’re dying out. I’d say they’re decidedly western thematically, but aimed at a domestic clientele.

I believe Haruki Murakami ran a jazz bar before becoming established as a writer.

If you click in the book, it's right in its description:

  Kissa by Kissa is a book about walking 1,000+km of the countryside of Japan along the ancient Nakasendō highway, the culture of toast (toast!), and mid-twentieth century Japanese cafés called kissaten.

And per my experience and what I've been told from locals, the "No gaijin allowed" is only common if you're visiting certain industries (sex work, striptease, and the like...), maybe yakuza owned underground-ish dicey bars, and areas near American military bases were soldiers have been known to cause problems.

When Japanese don't want to deal with foreigners, maybe because racist reasons, or just because they don't feel like explaining the rules or etiquette of a place to an outsider, they will just tell you the place is closed (even when busy), forbidden, busy (even when empty), or some other nonsense excuse.

People say kissa all the time in Japanese. Source: I live in Japan and speak Japanese with Japanese people.

I also live in Japan but I wouldn't use the term "kissa" outside MangaKissa or a traditional coffee shop (and who goes to a traditional coffee shop on a normal occasion?)?

> who goes to a traditional coffee shop on a normal occasion

There’s like 3 on the way to the station, presumably some people go there on the regular.

If you live in an area populated by older people then yes.

https://jisho.org/search/%E5%96%AB%E8%8C%B6 ?

Consider reading up on the author. He's been living in Japan for large parts of his life.

> I can't imagine I'd be very happy about that as a cafe owner

I kinda imagine most owners will find the book, learn it’s about kissaten, think that’s vaguely amusing, and then wonder mostly about how they’re going to return it to the crazy gaijin that left it behind.

I just checked with my (Japanese) wife, and she agrees that “kissa” on its own isn’t really used. I hear “junkissa” though (純喫茶) … old-style cafes.

I don’t think calling the book “kissa” is a bad idea in any way, though. One thing I’ve learned about Japanese is that it’s under constant change (more so than English) and it’s easy to imagine “kissa” becoming more common over time.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com