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Comment by eckza | Hacker News Reader

Do you know what else is nearly whisper-quiet and grease-free?

Degrease your bicycle chain with kerosene or some other solvent, and submerge it in molten paraffin for 20 minutes.

I have been doing this to my bike chains for almost a decade now, and it makes a big difference.

Aka, "wax." I use these products[1][2], but plain paraffin (the main ingredient) works fine. There are also drip-on wax products[3] that can be applied to a clean or previously waxed chain, without removing the chain again.

Totally agree that waxed bicycle drivetrains work very well, are quiet, and avoid the mess of oil-based lubricants.

[1]: https://moltenspeedwax.com/

[2]: https://silca.cc/products/secret-chain-wax-blend

[3]: https://www.ceramicspeed.com/en/cycling/shop/ufo-products/uf...

I use carnauba wax for finishing metal and have heard about using it on chains.

right now about every two weeks I clean the chain with a light mineral oil, then a day later I clean again and put down heavier oil. keeps the mud away.

would be I happier if I just cleaned the chain and dropped it in a pot of hot wax? is there anything to look out for?

Probably; you wouldn't have to do so much maintenance.

Wax fills in all of the voids between the bushings, roller pins, etc - so it physically prevents dirt from getting into your chain. And since there's no oil to cause the dirt to stick to your drivetrain, your gears don't wear down as quickly (as oil / grease + dust is abrasive; each rotation wears the chain and rings down ever so slightly).

> would be I happier if I just cleaned the chain and dropped it in a pot of hot wax?

Quite possibly. Chains stay clean and efficient for longer without intervention. And can be handled without dirtying your hands. It's nice. Other drivetrain components wear slower because there's less grit and the chain stretches more slowly.

> is there anything to look out for?

Main downsides:

* For bicycles, a lot of chains (Shimano, KMC) come in some kind of factory oil/grease. Stripping that off takes time and working with solvents. Fine if you have time and a garage, less great for busy people in apartments. I think some manufacturers sell dry chains (I've heard YBN does).

* Heating wax up is slow. I use a $12 crockpot and it takes a couple hours. Obviously, it's not like it takes any effort on your part, but there's some built in latency. ("Low" heat is about right in the steady state, but it melts faster if you use "high.")

* Again for bicycles, some kinds of quick link / master link wear quite quickly and can only be reused a handful of times (e.g., Shimano 11 speed). So one surprising expense in repeatedly removing chains to hot wax is the consumption of quick links. Can be mitigated with different brands of quick link, and/or using drip-on wax a few times between hot waxes.

* A freshly waxed chain will be stiff from the hardened wax. So a pre-install step is going through every link in the chain (on bicycles, typically ~110-120 links) and making sure each one rotates freely around the pin. This takes a few minutes.

> Heating wax up is slow. I use a $12 crockpot and it takes a couple hours. Obviously, it's not like it takes any effort on your part, but there's some built in latency. ("Low" heat is about right in the steady state, but it melts faster if you use "high.")

It's a bit silly, but I've used a simple ESP8266 board with a relay and a DS18B20 temperature sensor controlled by some Arduino code to make a simple temperature controller. It runs a Telegram Bot so I can start/stop the Crockpot and it notifies me when it reaches the desired temperature and when when lubrication is done.

Over the top, but it was interesting to implement. I might release it one day.

> Again for bicycles, some kinds of quick link / master link wear quite quickly and can only be reused a handful of times (e.g., Shimano 11 speed). So one surprising expense in repeatedly removing chains to hot wax is the consumption of quick links. Can be mitigated with different brands of quick link, and/or using drip-on wax a few times between hot waxes.

Whipperman makes the Connex Link. It does not require tools and can be reused as many time as you'd like. No 12 speed version yet, for some reason, though.

https://www.connexchain.com/en/connectors/detail/connex-link

Do you use the Connex link and recommend it?

Yes and yes.

Just note that there are two ways to install it. Follow the instructions exactly as described.

Edit:

Specifically, connect the link at the bottom of the chain, put the link on the front of the right hand side link and the back of the left hand side link.

Otherwise, shifting to the lowest gear will not be smooth.

https://connexchain.s3.amazonaws.com/website/downloads/bedie...

Thanks!

to soften the carnauba wax in my shop I just took a heating element from an old stove and put a diode on one of the AC legs to halve the power. wax gets semi-solid so that it can be applied easily, but doesn't drip. I'm sure you could use an inductive hob to the same effect.

I wonder if that wouldn't solve the master link wear issue if you could wipe soft gobs of it on the chain instead of taking it out and submersing it completely.

> I wonder if that wouldn't solve the master link wear issue if you could wipe soft gobs of it on the chain instead of taking it out and submersing it completely.

It wouldn't penetrate as well, and you might end up wasting a lot of it / making a mess. The goal is to get wax inside, and you prefer it to be a liquid for that.

I'm that guy... who chimes in whenever someone mentions a temperature controller. I've learned the hard way that some kinds of controls such as solid state relays can fail or get stuck in the "on" state, leaving you with thermal runaway. Also, software and firmware have to be considered as points of failure.

That's a good point, I'll take that in mind.

Maybe I'll add another layer of protection with a second controller and relay that would only work as a timeout or heating overrun protection.

It's still better than the previous situation when I would just forget the crockpot running.

On some derailleurs, you can remove a pulley to get the chain off as a closed loop. Still a pain, but in my case would save a $5 master link that isn’t supposed to be reused at all (sram 12 speed).

You’d also need a hole in your seatstay to remove the chain unbroken. (Some frames designed for belts have the ability to remove part of the seatstay, but it’s not common.)

With the wheel out and the bike upside down, you could put a cooking plate and pot on a stool next to the bike and immerse your chain while still wrapped around a stay. (You'd have to do it in two phases, of course, unless you have a really big pot and immerse half the bike...)

> A freshly waxed chain will be stiff from the hardened wax.

Oh, I always forget about this.

It's not necessary when you only ever ride singlespeed bikes... just wrap your chain around the rings and let the first few cranks do all the hard work!

But if you have a derailleur and whatnot... yeah, don't skip this step!

Yeah. It doesn’t need to be completely smooth when you install it on a geared bike, but you need to be able to thread it through the derailleur pulleys. Then you just ride it to remove the remaining excess wax, like a singlespeed.

Casual! If you aren’t submerging your chain in molten wax while in an ultrasonic agitation chamber then you may as well just throw your whole bike in the trash.

Almost any dry lube will achieve the supposed benefits of this product. Even dumonde tech lube dries so much that you can barely tell the chain is lubed.

We've also had belt driven (with pinion) systems for years, both of which would seem to solve this in a much more straightforward approach. This seems like a technological dead end to me.

I've had bad results with dry lube in the rainy winter for commuting

That's true, dry lube is no good when it's wet out.

But how good would a rope be when it's soggy and covered in road grime? I'm thinking pretty terrible.

In my neck of the woods, the main enemy during winter is road salt. I find that a thick heavy lube is the only protection, and a chain guard to keep it off my pants. Half of the secret of the chain case on the traditional Dutch bike is that the chain can be smeared in really thick evil grease with an exceptional maintenance interval.

> Degrease your bicycle chain with kerosene or some other solvent, and submerge it in molten paraffin for 20 minutes.

Clean it with isopropyl alcohol after degreasing it and before submerging in the paraffin.

After a few hundred kilometers you'll need to submerge it again. Boil a kettle of water and use it to clean the chain before submerging it in the paraffin.

Some people suggest adding PTFE to the paraffin, but I have no idea whether it has any benefit.

https://youtu.be/HHr9znwpwmQ

I used to use the paraffin wax method, but I added micronized graphite rather than PTFE. It works well, but does make the wax look dirty. Nowadays, I find it too much faff to bother with the hot wax soaking and I just use commercial wax/dry lubes as I was ending up "topping up" the soaked wax chain with that anyway. I found that wax needed re-applying every 100-150km.

"...Molyb_E_denum disulfide..."

Geesh, I must really be getting old and grouchy, because that pronunciation is really putting me off the whole video.

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