Ukraine military placing forces in hospitals and schools | Hacker News Reader

Ukraine military placing forces in hospitals and schools

amnesty.org.uk

13 pointscudgy21 comments

....https://www.politico.eu/article/head-amnesty-international-u...

Ukraine head disavows head organisation and resigns

I guess the official expects Amnesty International to look the other way when Ukraine violates a war crime. It sucks when your dirty laundry is out for display.

Can you point out what war crimes is Ukraine committing?

I read the article by Amnesty International and I could not spot any.

Yes, they make crazy accusations and demands but I did not notice any war crime described. If would like to reread the parts where in your opinion it has been described.

Sentence structure tells me this is Russian fakery, "violates a war crime" = rat smelled.

Your sentence lacks much substance other than an extreme leap of judgement based on a commonly used phrase. Seems like “fakery” to me.

Using a hospital or school as a base to launch attacks may not be a war crime, but …

“If there is any doubt, they cannot be attacked. Hospitals only lose their protection in certain circumstances - for example if a hospital is being used as a base from which to launch an attack, as a weapons depot, or to hide healthy soldiers/fighters. And there are certain conditions too.”

https://www.icrc.org/en/document/ihl-rules-of-war-FAQ-Geneva...

'Violates a war crime' is a sentence construction only a Russian would create!.

hospitals are also defended

AI should have elaborated more on what could be done better on Ukraine side. A few points for the context: - Ruzzians block evacuation routes of civilians when they have a chance. - Ruzzians rape and kill civilians when they enter a city. - Ruzzians use civilians as human shield (usual practice even before Ukraine war). - Ruzzians use nuclear plant as shield to place their artillery. - Ruzzians attack civilian objects no matter if Ukraine military is present or not.

So withdrawing from the city just means that the ruzzians can come and rape all the people.

Also this sentence does not make sense: > Most residential areas where soldiers located themselves were miles away from front lines and viable alternatives were available that would not have endangered civilians - such as military bases, densely-wooded areas or other structures further from residential areas.

Miles away from front lines - means the frontline is here already.

However, I agree that there should have been effort to evacuate civilians as many as possible.

And finally the title is just pure victim blaming.

Precisely.

Amnesty International should have worded their recommendations very carefully any damage to the party under attack.

It would be by now impossible to recover the damage done to Ukrainian civilians or to civilians in general. Amnesty International has discredited itself forever unfortunately.

the reality is when you are at war, fighting invasion and under immense pressure from a superior military force, you are going to do what you have to do. I doubt Ukraine are intentionally endangering the lives of their own people; they may just be forced into accepting a higher civilian casualty rate in order to preserve what fighting capacity they have remaining

It's called war crimes. And those responsible will be prosecuted when this war is over. If you can't win, then surrender or die without endangering civilians.

Can you point out what war crimes is Ukraine committng?

I read the article by Amnesty International and I could not spot any.

Yes, they make crazy accusations and demands but I did not notice any war crime described. If would like to reread the parts where in your opinion it has been described.

Using hospitals as a military base.

Possibly. However, Ukraine has accused Russia of illegally targeting civilians in hospitals when it looks now like the hospitals may have been targeted by Russia in response to attacks by Ukrainian troops holed up in a hospital, school, or civilian home.

I don't know why this got down-voted exactly, but it's unfortunately accurate in that an hospital/school can become a legitimate military target if it's used militarily.

Also, in response to:

> I doubt Ukraine are intentionally endangering the lives of their own people

The report clearly states:

> Most residential areas where soldiers located themselves were miles away from front lines and *viable alternatives were available that would not have endangered civilians* - such as military bases, densely-wooded areas or other structures further from residential areas

thank for you the pressing the case. My assessment of this report is that it shows two possibilities - Ukraine are deliberately endangering their own population, perhaps to incur PR benefit should a Russian strike be successful, or applying practical considerations which we can only speculate upon - easier to deploy from location rather than 'densely wooded' areas, for example.

Either way, my basic position is that this is likely to be a reluctant decision, forced upon the Ukrainians by an uneven contest.

If a country is at the point of sacrificing its own civilians as shields to protect their soldiers, they should consider that they have already lost the battle and should consider negotiations and/or surrender.

perhaps this has already been considered. Indeed, prior to war, there were different factions on Ukraine who worked hard to avoid this circumstance, perhaps in anticipation of the sacrifices that would be asked of the people. However, people in formal control may not actually be in control

What a nonsense of misinformation. Nothing like this is happening. What Amnesty International describes are civilians who have ignored evacuation orders.

It looks like you are here to spread lies.

Hospitals are ONLY valid targets when they are used for attacks. Amnesty International did not describe any such cases, period.

yes indeed, accusation vs counter accusation is a part of war. I'm a little surprised we (meaning everybody) are generally not able to raise our skepticism to the level required by the cynicism of info-ops, but perhaps we will always believe what we prefer rather than what might actually be happening

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