Finland to Become the First EU Country to Test Digital Passports
schengenvisainfo.com
schengenvisainfo.com
We increasingly live in a world where no transaction between two individuals is possible without the approval of a third party. Citizens become digital subjects.
That depends on how it’s implemented ofcourse, but still a third party remains a liability.
So the liability risk model with an added server increases massively.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that the whole point of a blockchain is to update and maintain information in a distributed manner and in a trustless environment. In this case:
- Could any person (who finds an appropriate nonce) update this blockchain with whatever information they want?
- What information would be stored in it?
- Doesn't it make more sense for this kind of data to be centralized rather than distributed? Unless the black box model you mentioned specifically needs a blockchain
And integrating the gates with 27+ different systems built by different countries (by most likely some local it company you have never heard of) would be a nightmare.
And by the way - if countries managed to agree on offline passport implementation, which is way more complicated, I don't see how they can't nail online one.
If there’s a DB lookup it shouldn’t be possible to vend new passports without a persistent and undetected hack of the backend? If it’s a stolen passport with the photo changed, that should also show up on the lookup screen?
You're correct. Biometric passports are hard to forge without a complicit country.
Maybe I did not read the article well enough, but why would these passports not be simple signed certificates? No need for any network of third party to check whether they were signed by a trusted authority.
Also if the private cert is in the Secure Enclave it’s harder to leak.
But also your physical passport can be stolen
The same argument could be made about the possibility of a CA’s key being leaked.
Sure enough, the article says:
"the initial plan is to test digital travel documents between Finland and Croatia"
Maybe you just aren't familiar with it, but Croatia is a very popular summer beach vacation destination for Europeans looking to hit the beach in the summer. The beaches are beautiful, they have old architecture in cities like Split and it's relatively inexpensive to visit. They get ~20 million tourists a year and tourism is about 20% of their GDP.
This is the experiment so I guess that it is better to run it with countries that are not the tip destination. I've just looked up the numbers for 2019, 118 000 visitors came to Croatia from Finland (https://www.ceicdata.com/en/croatia/tourist-arrivals-by-coun...).
(Finnish) https://www.puhelinvertailu.com/uutiset/2022/02/09/sahkoinen...
If I lose my phone or wallet I still have my passport and a mean of payment.
Now I foresee a future in which a cause of homelessness will be losing your phone.
First reasonable problem is simply losing it or it breaking. That is fun times if you don't have physical keys anymore. No car, no access to home, no way to contact the support...
And second is that I'm paranoid and I don't think it will be safe enough. Thus connecting absolutely everything to it and identity it provides just feels scary. I think I could possibly buy an apartment with a loan if there was ID connected to phone and it was cracked...
It won't. I believe we are actively setting up not only the biggest ever terrorist attack on civilised nations, which will dwarf 9/11, but potentially setting up a total and irrecoverable collapse. I find it increasingly hard not to think this is deliberate because I am unable to comprehend the colossal stupidity of our current trajectory viz "smartphones". It's like we want this to happen. Smartphone over-reliance is the single biggest national security threat I can see. We urgently need policy level thinking to shift things into a safer space.
Or just use any type of biometrics. You give your name (pointless, really) and agree to face-id. Face hash gets validated by gov server.
Facebook has solved this a decade ago. Big tech companies know 90% of population by name, face, all their kinks, activities, plans and desires - can the governments please catch up.
An iPad/tablet should do the job though.
You may need to "walk" hundreds of km to reach one of those.
I do, too. Then I went to the US and wanted to grab a beer. Had to go back to the hotel to get my passport to prove I'm over 21. My EU driver's license wasn't good enough (it had to be from that state). I'm also old enough to start balding.
I'm pretty sure in France, the police won't be happy if they stop you, and you can't show your license and vehicle papers. Even though they are in a database, with the photograph for the license. And they also seem to know enough just by reading the plates to send you automated speeding tickets by snail mail.
I live in Austria and cash is still used in a big way. Many smaller restaurants in the rural areas only accept cash. I withdraw cash from the ATM at the entrance to my local supermarket in order to pay for groceries with cash. On a recent trip to the UK I was surprised at the number of locations where cash payments were not possible. Want a Thames riverboat? Card only. Want to enter Warwick Castle? Card only. Want to buy something in the gift shop for £5? Card only. It was actually pretty annoying, as I had a fat wad of Pounds Sterling notes. At least cash was still possible in every pub I visited, even if their default assumption was a card payment.
Up until recently I was in no way digitally connected for Austrian government services. Sadly, for some business reasons I had to acquire a “Handy Signature” (basically 2FA via your phone) to perform some operations with the tax office.
I see that there is a silent war on cash - they try to make it as inconvenient as possible and then claim not enough people use it to sustain Cash Points, cash self-checkout etc.
Digital money remove agency from people. You no longer own it - you just have access to it that it can be withdrawn on a whim (see Trudeau casus) and then they will be deciding what you can or cannot buy based on your profile. Google about CBDC - programmable money that is in the works. Cash stands in the way.
Also in the UK recently I encountered for the first time a supermarket where self-service was the only option. As I was buying beer, before I would complete my transaction it had to be approved by a human, which seemed to defeat the purpose.
Big corporations want it? Big corporations want the biggest chunk of your money so they want you to have a “complete” freedom of your money so you can spend it on their products.
All these arguments sound to me like conspiracy theories because I don’t see real examples. Show me a scenario where the government would want you to not buy something. Like what would that be? Guns? Yeah I’m the EU they will block you but that’s because it’s illegal.
Do you feel like they will limit the amount of alcohol you can buy? That would be an example. But prohibition has been tried before. Ppl want alcohol and ppl vote.
Also why would the government care so much about what you buy? If their plan was to control you and stuff why do we have so many privacy laws and initiatives in the EU?
Also this seems like a very long term project. Do you believe the ppl working in the government are soooo competent?
“Kontantfri” is a sign I see very often.
So at the end of the day accepting cash is more expensive for small shops. (not 100% sure about Sweden but that is the case here in Finland).
Because they do tax fraud. That's why every restaurant and small business owner in the country side has a big house and a Tesla, despite the average national take home wage being 1800€. I hope the remove cash to crack down on this. It's unfair for the rest of us with jobs to foot the bill for the government expenses while others get away without declaring their full earnings due to the use of cash. Last year it made news that the tax office caught a small farmer that defrauded the government of over 3 million Euro. And that guy is just one of many that go uncaught.
>Up until recently I was in no way digitally connected for Austrian government services.
Why is everyone in Austria so backwards, conservative and against any kind of technological progress? I'm not Austrian but I have to live there unfortunately and day to day stuff is a huge pain:
Everything is cash with lines at the supermarket taking ages until every customer's coins are counted and accounted for, plus all the constat letters and paperwork is a nightmare. Very little digitalization throughout the country. Not that different than Germany, but at least Germany has a mich bigger jobs market with proper wages to make up for the discomfort.
That's why Austrian devs earn less than Estonians, Poles or Romanians. This excessive conservativism is holding Austria back massively and the gap will widen as it's just not a compelling county for tech companies to do business in. It's not as rich and big market as Germany, nor as low-tax, rich and innovative as Switzerland, nor as cheap and low-tax as Poland, Estonia or Romania, nor as progressive, innovative and low-tax as Netherlands.
I’m not Austrian either, do live there and despite some factors I’m not a fan of, the lack of digitisation in society in general is a strong selling point for me.
I really do believe that excessive digitisation of society is trading personal autonomy (freedom, privacy) for some kind of perceived convenience. Personally, I think the trade off is not worth it. I do not want big business (banks) and the government able to track every location I’ve been to and every cent I’ve spent.
I’m also concerned about reliance on digital services, which can be prone to failure - not a problem with cash - and for those unfortunate people without a bank account, the inability to use cash is life damaging.
Having been through many, many hoops with the UK’s Home Office (including a 13 month Visa Appeal process, which ended up in court where the Home Office didn’t even bother to send a representative), compared to the supremely easy and face to face process in obtaining an Artikel 50 Brexit visa in Austria, I’d choose the Austrian process every time.
The convenience is not perceived, it's real and measurable, that's why people in many countries love going digital voluntarily. The time saved from doing stuff off my phone or PC instead of sitting in line at government offices means more free time to do what I like. Paying contactless means lines at the supermarket last 30 seconds instead of 3 minutes or more and I can catch the train instead of missing it because 3 people in front of me are still counting their change. The gains are real, not perceived.
And what extra freedom do you have from not going digital? If the government wants to screw you, like the trucker protestors in Canada, they'll just lock your bank accounts and you loose access to all your fund including ability to pay rent, regardless if you're digital or not. So what then? How many days can you go with just the 60€ in your wallet and no acces to your bank account. Unless you're the kind of person to keep all your money under the mattress (which I doubt you are but maybe you'll surprise me) you gained absolutely nothing from that while everyone loses all the convenience. The only ones who gain are business owners commiting tax fraud or people doing other illegal activities, which I condemn, and a cash free society would make them unable to doge taxes anymore making it fair for everyone.
>Holding Austria back from what?
Holding it back from money and jobs from one of the most lucrative international business sectors in the world (why do you think SV/California is so rich?). Holding it back from technological progress generating said jobs. Holding it back from highly skilled immigrants who are looking to work in this sector and will pay high taxes which support the government and population, but instead go to work somewhere else.
>The only ones who gain are business owners commiting tax fraud or people doing other illegal activities, which I condemn, and a cash free society would make them unable to doge taxes anymore making it fair for everyone.
Define illegal activities. Also be aware that very random things can suddenly be made illegal for very corrupt or self-interested political reasons (australia and Canada spring to mind here more recently, so too does Russia to a much greater degree). The ability to fight back against overreach by society's single most powerful entitiy, the state, be it with cash or some other means of defiance is fundamentally a good thing and has been throughout history. At the very least small time tax dodging and grey market deals are a much less historically and fundamentally evil thing than governments overusing their powers for repressive ends.
Also, tax evasion in a fully digitized, cashless society would happen just the same, but it would now be done only by large companies and the very wealthy, who have the pull to buy their favorite laws, politicians and special exemptions. Your claimed individual, middle or lower class tax dodgers matter much less. What will matter however is the inability of normal people to keep their heads above water because they can no longer hide certain things from irresponsible tax collection or onerous regulations.
You seem to think that more easily catching a few tax dodgers and making the misery of having no escape from taxes more "fairly" distributed is a worthy gain in exchange for a total surveillance state that has the tools to control you at any time of political winds shift.