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Comment by r00fus | Hacker News Reader

I have owned an EV for the past 5 years (50k mi mostly commute to work) and here's what I've paid for maintenance:

Wiper fluid, replace 12v battery (due to COVID and not driving).

That's it.

I did go to the tire shop but they pulled a screw from the tire, patched it up and told me there's plenty of tread. They also inspected the brake pads and they were years away from replacement (due to regen braking).

None of the following I had to do for my first 5 years owning an ICE car:

* fuel, oil, air filter replacement * replace oil, brake pads. * (if you're unlucky) transmission/engine repair

Never having to visit a gas station (unless I'm low on tire pressure) is zen.

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The gas station thing I wholeheartedly agree with. I have a fully charged car every time I enter my garage and never have to play that guessing game of if I’ll need randomly add 10m onto any drive to get gas. It’s wonderful.

That said, if I had to rely on public charging for my day to day, I’d be in the same spot as a gas car —- or worse, with only access to a level 2 charger.

I was in Steamboat this weekend, and for some reason they have no superchargers. Relying on a level 2 charger giving me 10% charge after an hour was.. tedious at best. I would not want an EV if that was my regular experience. It’s one reason I’d never recommend anything except a Tesla until there are widespread level 3 chargers for all brands.

I live in Europe, I usually have to park my car way down the road. Am I supposed to run an extension cord from my house to my parking spot every night? The infrastructure for EV is not on par with classic gas stations for those who do not have a garage close to their house.

In an urban situation you're supposed to plug your EV into the CCS charger which can charge at up to 350kW. Hyundai/Kia, Porsche, Audi, and a growing number of other companies make 800v cars that charge to ~80% in under 20 minutes.

Or, you use a carshare, and the car is located in a garage/lot where it spends every minute it's not in use plugged into a charger.

EVs aren't a solution to the unsustainability of individual car ownership in high population density areas.

I'm not in an urban environment, and the part about "under 20 minutes" is what I'd call "not on par with classic gas stations".

There's no (usable) car sharing services that I'm aware of where I live.

Put a pressure on your employer to install chargers.

My employer is the government, they don't even provide enough parking spaces for all employees. There's a waiting list.

In my neighborhood in London (maybe everywhere in London?), most of the lampposts by on-street parking have charging ports [1]. So you just park near a lamppost and plug in at night. There's a QR code you scan, then you click on a web page and it starts charging. Pretty cheap and easy. It's honestly easier than going to a gas station.

So in my experience, having an electric car in London is super convenient. There's myriad ways to charge it and increasingly good rapid charging options along major routes. But I'm sure that's not everyone's experience in every neighborhood or city. Hopefully things keep improving as rapidly as they have been.

NB: I have seen someone in London string a charging cable up through their non-ground-floor apartment window once, but only once :)

[1] https://www.ubitricity.com/charge-points-uk/

That's the kind of infrastructure that needs to be available everywhere to make EV charging a viable alternative to classic gas stations. I expect this to be commonplace everywhere, bar any ubiquitous underground wireless charging facility. But unlike the UK, the country I currently live in seems to be 10 to 15 years behind in all technical developments, so I don't expect anything like the London experience to materialize around here any time soon.

Plus, while what you say is probably feasible for bigger cities, I'm not convinced yet that small to medium sized cities will introduce something similar anytime soon, or is it the case in the UK?

Just out of curiosity: how far apart are the lamp posts in London? How difficult is it to actually get a parking spot by one? Can more than one car in the vicinity of a lamp post charge their car or only one per post?

According to Plugshare, there's a 125kw CCS charger in downtown Steamboat Springs. There were also lots of Level 2 chargers and three tesla 'destination' chargers.

The hazards of buying a car with a proprietary DC fast charge network, I guess. Especially given how CCS chargers are now twice the speed of Superchargers and less 'oversubscribed.'

Re: gas stations for tire pressure - it's the worst! They'll charge an exorbitant rate, the timer cuts out before you get to your fourth tire, someone is parked in the way or the machine is down - filling the tires was literally my least favorite part of car ownership for years, and I tend to do most of my own simple maintenance like oil changes.

I bought this tool on the battery platform of the rest of my power tools: https://www.makitatools.com/products/details/DMP180ZX

Best $120 I've ever spent! Can't recommend enough. Also great for inflatable mattresses, kiddie pools, basketballs, and shuts off automatically when it gets to the pressure you set.

Gas stations charge for air?

Yes it’s common to have a timed payment machine for air. Usually dual purpose with a vacuum machine as well.

Interesting, here in Sweden air is always free, however vaccums cost money (but way less stations have vaccums).

Does your place of business have an air compressor outside, an air hose and fittings for the public to use for free?

Yeah, more or less every manned gas station in Sweden has that.

No, I meant non gas station providing air for free... Since we're on the topic of businesses giving free services only tangentially related to what they sell.

I guess one example is bikeshops providing air for bikes for free. But I agree, not many services provide things for free. I’m assuming gas stations see it as a way to draw in customers, many also have bathrooms for free.

Small, battery powered inflators are pretty nice to have around.

But FYI for anyone else who is having this struggle: most tire places will check and fill up your tires for free (even if you didn't buy tires from them).

Looks nice, but a cheaper alternative is this one that can be plugged into the car battery. If you don't trust the pressure gauge, you can buy a nice one and still have some money left over.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QR4Q42L

I got a small 18V Ryobi thing. Have used it on car tires, bicycle tires and for inflating an inflatable pool and beach toys and a mattress. Best thing I’ve bought this year.

In California the coin-op air/water are a scam. They'll take your money, but if you ask the attendant they can turn it on from the booth. Some may even have a secret button on the side to turn them on [1]. Unfortunately for EVs, the law only applies if you are purchasing fuel.

> California law requires that station operators provide free air and water to customers who purchase gasoline or diesel fuel. [2: Complaint form if you were denied]

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/bayarea/comments/3sp0jj/fyi_gas_sta...

[2] https://apps4.cdfa.ca.gov/AirWaterComplaint/#:~:text=Califor....

A $10 manual, high-volume bicycle pump works fine.

It doesn't actually take very long even from nothing and since it's designed for high pressure it doesn't even take much effort to get up to normal car tire pressures.

Feel like the brake pad and tire part are more just luck but agree that they're less maintenance overall. Downside is when they break there's no fixing them :)

Many EVs support a regen based "1 pedal" driving mode, where lifing from the accelerator slows the vehicle rapidly. This leaves brakes for emergency stopping and parking. My 2017 Tesla MX-100D doesn't quiet have this (you need brakes below 5mph), and I have almost 0 pad wear.

Where you will run into problems with brakes is due to corrosion if you live in a climate where roads are salted in the winter. Since the pads last so much longer, there is a danger that the disposable parts that are designed to last the normal lifetime of pads will corrode and fail before the pads wear out.

FWIW, in 5 years, replaced my wiper blades, tires, and washer fluid and that's it.

Brake pad and tire are extremely user dependent (in same car model). How you drive dictates their wear (faster braking/cornering == faster wear)

But in most (all?) EVs you have regenerative braking that reduces the load on the brake pads, so they last longer. You can kinda do the same in an ICE by coasting down but it takes a lot more preplanning and annoys impatient people behind you.

I’ve driven an automatic ICE cars that automatically do engine braking.

And that was a nothing fancy Hyundai.

(And of course if you drive manual you can do this yourself).

One can occasionally do engine braking in an ICE car, but it is simply not feasible to use it for most, or even significant fraction of one’s braking needs: try driving through a city without touching brake pedal (actually please dont, it’s dangerous). On the other hand, in an electric vehicle/hybrid, you can use regenerative braking for a huge chunk of braking situations. If you use it half of the time, that extends life of brake pads by 100%, which is huge.

I’m convinced most automatic cars disconnect the engine and drive wheels when you step off the throttle, thus keeping a small amount of fuel running to the engine and putting more wear and tear on your brakes for the braking. With the exception of the 2014 Hyundai I was driving.

One could shift the automatic gear selector to 3 or 2 (or whatever you have) to engine brake in most autos. This is taught as a thing to do if your brakes fail.

But on my manual, I can take a freeway exit and do most of my braking from 120km/h to about 15km/h through the engine. And similar if the light ahead turns red.

This is actually what you’re supposed to do in a manual: be in gear at all times so you can accelerate if you have to.

My brakes will probably last 3-4x longer than an automatic’s.

My experience in my vehicle (mazda cx5) is that foot off both pedals seems less drag than engine braking from a downshift in a manual, but also more drag than neutral/clutch disengage in a manual.

Letting the drag slow the vehicle in an automatic is still a win -- your instantaneous MPG goes to >99 and you save wear and tear on multiple parts of the vehicle. It's a really big win, and with people so antsy about the price of fuel (aka the cost of driving) I'm shocked to observe how many people are still driving in very expensive manners (fast starts, hard braking)

> even significant fraction of one’s braking needs It's easily practical if you drive in a non-aggressive way. (Its not a race )

I frequently coast up to red lights and stop signs, shedding 25-50% of my miles per hour, but brake wear is greater under heavier loads so doing 25% less breaking is a lot more than 25% savings on wear & tear.

I'm not sure what % is a "significant" threshold for you, but >25% is definitely significant to me.

I drive a stick shift and I would bet that at least half of my braking is engine braking. It's pretty much my default behavior if I want to slightly slow down to downshift and then immediately shift back.

With an ICE, I have no idea whether the wear and tear you avoid on the brakes is offset by the strain you put on the engine or if it saves or wastes gas. Don't know don't care. I just do it because I am Walter Mitty.

I dont think I ever use brake pedal anymore unless something unexpected happens. I heard even some EV owners complain about rust build up due to lack of use

I live in the northeast with a Chevy Bolt (now with a battery that doesn’t explode). I did have to buy snow tires and have to swap them bi-annually. Still I agree with the OP that the number of things one must do to keep the EV going is much smaller than an ICE. Always read the manual on the maintenance schedule

You've found tires and brake pads which are still legal after 50,000 miles???

That's more impressive than the engine tech.

Please share more details.

Most US states don't inspect vehicles at all.

In Germany, all cars mandatorily need to be inspected after two years, or else you're not allowed on the road at all. And they really mean it: I once missed the two year mark by a month or so, and got a nice fine from the officials (luckily, though, in car country Germany, all car-related fines are ridiculously low).

My car has a blinker light in the outside mirrors, the right one of which stopped working after I reversed into a wall with the mirrow. I replaced the mirror glass but didn't bother about the light, given that the ones in the front and back of the car worked perfectly fine. Well, that was enough for them not letting me pass the inspection - I had four weeks to get it fixed, otherwise my car would have been off the road. The repair set me back almost 500 Euros, for an effing small blinker light...

Besides smog inspections the only one I ever had to do was after our car was totaled by a hailstorm - that makes it a salvage title and you have to be inspected before you can get back on the road.

The only thing that was a close call was the passenger window would stick sometimes but it rolled down for the inspection so we were good to go.

https://tires.costco.com/Product?ItemNo=1317677&tirename=bri...

80k mile warranty. They should have plenty of tread at 50k miles.

brake pads in EVs deteriorate much more slowly due to regenerative braking. I've had 2 EVs and haven't replaced the pads on either before I sold them.

I think the tires themselves degrade faster due to higher weight of EVs(battery weight essentially).

Didn't have to replace the tires on our Kona which we had to 25k miles, but it was probably near time. That thing came with terrible tires, and Hyundai didn't bother tuning the car too much -- the tires would skip every time if you floored it.

Brake fluid should be changed before 50k. With regen braking maybe you'll never notice the degradation but the components won't appreciate the ever increasing water content.

I'm confused why you wouldn't need an air filter replacement in an EV? Do you just not use A/C?

I believe they are referring to engine intake air filter, being a critical consumable component.

As opposed to AC getting worked for a few years and the cabin air filter merely getting stinky, but manageable.

Oh gotcha! Thanks!

I don't know anything about cars but wouldn't you need an alignment and/or tire rotation?

You're correct, and the parent only listed the things they didn't need to do. Parent most likely did tire rotations, and alignments are situationally specific to touching the suspension or putting on a wheel/tire combo that isn't close enough to the "OEM spec" for the vehicle.

Air filter should require pretty much the same replacement, ICE or EV, no?

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