How to integrate a trackpoint in a mechanical keyboard | Hacker News Reader

How to integrate a trackpoint in a mechanical keyboard

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130 pointscgeier32 comments

I read through this a while ago while deciding on a design for my next dactyl-manuform build, and I'm unfortunately struck that in 5 years, we still don't have a good opensource trackpoint design. I wouldn't necessarily expect that one would pop up in a vacuum, except for these three data points:

1) The Cambrian explosion of 3D printed, custom, hand wired keyboard designs -- dactyl -> dactyl-manuform -> tracktyl (trackball based), entire companies build around kits and designs that have to be hand assembled, r/ergomechkeyboards, discord channels for things like bastardkb.com, etc.

2) The similar, if earlier days, explosion of trackball designs: see the long discussion at the Verge [0].

3) Equivalent popularity when available of trackpoint style pointers -- thinkpad keyboards and Unicomp clone Model M's with trackpoint built in (though with the cardinal sin for Linux use of not having a middle click option.

It seems like we're overdue for a good trackpoint module that I can build into the frame of a serious manuform style keyboard without having to use a 16mm piercing to extend the point past a full mechanical key.

[0] https://www.theverge.com/22958439/trackball-diy-building-plo...

I think that (like me) you overestimate the size of population looking for an opensource trackpoint design. For your trackball example there's the Ploopy [0], but even there we're still dependent on something like the PMW3360 sensor board (which afaik isn't open).

I just can't picture how designing and manufacturing a new trackpoint board from scratch - one that competes with the excellent Trackpoint IV modules that are used in the also excellent TEX[1] trackpoint keyboards - would ever be profitable, or worthwhile given that there are patents and licensing issues to deal with.

If, OTOH, you're just after a trackpoint module and a stem extension that works, check out the Sprintek SK8707 on Jonas Lang's Trackpoint Groupbuy discord [2].

[0] https://ploopy.co/

[1] https://tex.com.tw/products/shinobi?variant=16969883648090

[2] https://discord.com/channels/812728566940303362/

Lenovo also makes a NON-MECHANICAL keyboard that otherwise hits the mark - https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-ThinkPad-Compact-Keyboard-Trac... that also pulls down demand for an opensource trackpoint design that attaches to a mechanical keyboard.

Be careful, you can't swap the Fn/Ctrl keys on Lenovo external keyboards, it can be a deal breaker for many.

The Bluetooth version is my endgame keyboard and I’ve already bought spares, and will likely buy more. The Bluetooth version can also pair through a USB dongle, enabling fast switching between two machines without replugging.

Also available in a cordless Bluetooth version, btw.

I had the Unicomp with the trackball. The trackball was terrible, and in an annoying spot(above the numpad?!) where moving my hand to a mouse was more ergonomic anyway. Never got used past trying for the first few days. Complete waste of whatever the extra cost was. YMMV.

I obtained a Charybdis [0] last month - the trackball is right at your thumb. My hands virtually never leave the keyboard. Honestly I'm still trying to get my WPM back up to where it used to be, and my homerow mods are occasionally misfiring, but on the whole it's been a positive experience.

[0] https://github.com/Bastardkb/Charybdis

Damn, that's pretty close to my dream keyboard right there, thanks! Though Ideally I'd prefer something like a clit mouse near the home row, with 3 click buttons on their own row under the modifier row. With the Atreus design which is what I'm using currently.

Switched to a split ortholinear keyboard to force myself to relearn typing with touch, because I had this crazy ad hoc 5 finger system that was typing at up to 110wpm, but really messing with my nerves. Back up to 100+ WPM and my wrists are much happier.

Keep at it, you'll be flying again in no time.

For those that want a trackpoint with mechanical keys and don't want to DIY it, I highly recommend a Tex Shinobi which has the SK-8855 Thinkpad keyboard layout.

https://tex.com.tw/products/shinobi?variant=16969883844698

I have had mine for a couple years now and I love it so much that I bought a second one as a spare.

I own a Yoda, a Kodachi and as of a few weeks ago, a Shinobi. I can't recommend Justin & the guys at TEX enough.

+1 for this. Recently picked my Shinobi up a few months ago, and I'm also thinking about picking up a spare now too. It's an expensive keyboard, but worth every penny once you get it in your hands. The trackpoint is more precise than any of the laptop ones, and horizontal/vertical scrolling is supported on every OS. Pretty much my endgame keyboard, besides maybe a detachable numpad?

I can vouch for TEX and the Shinobi in particular. I'm pretty sure it's my endgame keyboard after a few years of experimenting with others.

Plus Justin and his team are very responsive.

Can you press on the trackpoint for a click?

No, the mouse controls are on the three buttons below the space bar.

32 years since this study comparing mouse vs. trackpoint... https://www.microsoft.com/buxtoncollection/a/pdf/trackpoint%...

Thank you I wasn't aware of that paper.

"In experimenting with analog pointing devices we have found the Pointing Stick can best the mouse in many situation"

Personally if I have the luxury of space for a mouse I use a mix of the mouse and the trackpoint, but when I use a laptop on my laps (couch, car, plane) then I use the trackpoint exclusively.

I'm using a track point with https://uhk.io/ but find it's a little too "fine" compared to the clunky manual nature of the keyboard. It feels like a piece of jewelry placed atop a heavy duty durable piece of hardware.

I love it, but think that a joystick more similar to what is found on an Xbox controller would fit the feel of the keyboard better.

I love my UHK too but the trackpoint is pretty disappointing, even after you mess with the movement settings to make it slightly less janky. The thumb modules are a huge drop in build quality compared to the excellent keyboard.

Hi there,

The next UHK firmware and Agent release will enable you to tweak module speed and acceleration settings, which should make your trackpoint module significantly more useful.

We haven't received bad feedback about the build quality of the modules, so I'm wondering what makes you so dissatisfied.

Laszlo Monda - founder and lead of the UHK

I did a more unusual approach by using an MX switch casing to hide the Trackpoint behind an unused key: https://imgur.io/a/0VHce

I came here because i didn't know what he meant by "trackpoint", Turns out it is what i know as the "clit mouse".

I learned your term for it from https://xkcd.com/243/

Regarding building a custom keyboard like this: I've always been worried that custom keyboards like this, using TMK/QMK, would be detected as a hack or exploit by some anti-cheat software. Is this a reasonable concern or am I being overly cautious?

It just looks like a normal USB device, no more exotic than many store-bought "gamer" keyboards.

You can theoretically configure the USB descriptors/IDs to whatever you want, so you could probably make it look a lot like a standard Logitech if you needed to.

I suppose you could do some very intensive probing trying to identify the signatures of TMK/QMK/VIA/VIAL behaviour, but given that there are off-the-shelf commercial products running QMK too, I could imagine that upsetting regular people.

Or just buy the ultimate hacking keyboard with track point module.

Why aren’t there more external keyboards made with a trackpoint? Yes I know about the Lenovo ones, they are not great.

I LOVE trackpoints but unfortunately they are terrible at irritating my hands wrists and elbows. be careful

If you're DIYing an ergonomic keyboard I don't see why you'd go for a trackpoint over a trackpad or trackball. Personally it's one of the least comfortable and precise input devices I've ever used

As a heavy user of both, may I suggest the answer lies right in your post: "personally" :)

I like not leaving the home row. That's possible with a pad or ball, but then you have to use your thumbs. My index finger is much more dexterous.

"Personally", as someone who currently has... (counts trackpoints)... _eight_ trackpoint enabled devices in the house, I would highly recommend the Rollermouse Red [0] to anyone who doesn't want to leave the home row, but doesn't like trackpoints. It is a stellar device. Seems to have gone up in price in the last few years though.

[0] https://www.contourdesign.com/product/rollermouse-red/

I’m thinking massive trackball built from a bowling ball that you operate with your feet.

Guitar or organ pedals for the buttons. All hands and feet on deck!

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