Spain bans offices, bars and shops from setting AC below 80 degrees (27C) | Hacker News Reader

Spain bans offices, bars and shops from setting AC below 80 degrees (27C)

cbsnews.com

52 points_-david-_64 comments

How the hell will they regulate this? Just moving the thermostat to a hotter spot will keep the inside temperature below 27°C, while the 'setting' will be the "correct"/legal.

Otherwise... I think it's sad, how we've gone from great economy to being hot inside shops in a year....

It won't be perfect, but you will have a fair amount of places where it can and will be implemented. Our research centre has central A/C and they announced the change a few days ago.

They force shopping centres to show a thermometer where it can be seen.

How can I do this in a hotel? Some hotels don't have a temperature setting above 24 and my ideal is 26. Is the thermostat also the thing that shows the actual temperature or is it somewhere else. Fwiw, it's usually a Honeywell system in hiltons i believe.

Social pressure is likely enough. Most social rules do not require enforcement beyond the outliers.

I'm pretty sure most of the people prefer cooler shopping center and falling governments, than obeying corrupt politicians and being hot everywhere.

A few politicians decided to print a bunch of money, and we got the economic crisis, and now a few politicians are in a dick measuring contest with A LOT of taxpayers money and a bunch of dead ukranians, and again, the normal people suffer due to the energy crisis.

Yeah!! Let's stick it to the corrupt politicians by running AC all day and... running out of power I guess???

The Spanish are by far the most politically timid population in Europe. Regulations are follow diligently regardless of how pointless.

Ha - I had a college roommate who would heat up a pan and place it near the "locked" thermostat to ensure the AC stayed on for hours at a time.

People will report them.

These rules never need to be perfect. Just enough to reduce energy usage.

The same way we regulate toilet flush volume in the US.

Over time I'd expect that they legislate in custom-to-spain thermostats that simply don't go lower than 27.

They set my office to 75f (up from 72), and I need a personal fan on me all the time, my home is set to 70...

80 degree would be unbearable to me

I must run like a space heater, because it seems to me moving air is more important than temperature. I'm fine up to the 80s with a good strong fan on me. But I'll get uncomfortable or stuffy with no breeze, even into the low 70s.

Interesting. I basically live at 30 degrees, even more, at all times. You get used to it.

> You get used to it.

I tried. I wanted to see if I could get used to it and save some money on AC and be more environmentally friendly in my permanent WFH situation. I tried for a month but never got used to it. I was just uncomfortable and sleepy all the time.

at what % humidity?

Very low

That is the thing, I won't. Only a 2-4 months out of the year are hot here, the rest of the time it is colder. So in order to "get used to it" I would need to be year around, and to keep my home at 80 degrees' year round would be much more impactful to the climate than keeping my home a comfortable 70 in the summer, and then 65 in winter, spring, and fall

People can become acclimated to 80F. But I wonder how many people who have their AC at home set to, say, 70, are going to just stop shopping.

This is a form of rationing in the face of reduced supply. Another option would be allow electricity prices to rise and people to make their own choices about how to respond to that.

No of course it wouldn't. Because that would impact poor people who don't have a choice and already optimised their spending a lot more.

Commercial pricing is already separate from residential pricing

And I didn’t advocate either way of doing it in any case. I just offered an alternate that may or may not be better.

Let's say its 30C. If you want to keep the air temperature at 27C, then the AC needs to be set below 27C. Also, many buildings have warmer areas and cooler areas. If you're unlucky to be in a warmer area, you're going to be working in temps of 30C or warmer.

And what about if I have a solar array on my roof? Shouldn't I be able to use the power I generate to be more comfortable?

I predict people will move the thermostat to a warmer part of the building, or just put a heat source under the thermostat.

I'm usually hesitant to encourage people to buy IoT junk, but EcoBee has nailed this problem.

The "bee" part of the name refers to a ZigBee network that it forms with inexpensive per-room temperature/motion detectors.

It is pin compatible with old school thermostats, and you can add a large number of temperature sensors. In the cases you are referring to, the best bet would be to add a sensor to each of the 2-3 hottest/coldest rooms, then set it to keep everything in range.

This is more comfortable and energy efficient than over cooling/heating, and costs under $500 for a building. It also works fine without a network connection.

You can also check the temperatures of multiple rooms at a glance, and partially close some duct vents accordingly.

Installation of the temperature sensors is easier than hanging a picture. Their batteries last about a year, and are standard/easy to replace.

That may have been in the past, not sure, but I am 90% sure all Ecobee products today are "hubless" wifi cloud encumbered products

Very Few thermostats on the market are Zigbee, Centralite has one (the pearl) but I am not aware of any others honestly

It says the sensors connect via "915MHz"; so they might not be ZigBee, but they're also not WiFi.

WiFi is still optional according to their FAQ:

https://support.ecobee.com/s/articles/Wi-Fi-FAQ-Setup-Guide-...

915MHz is on this page:

https://www.ecobee.com/en-us/accessories/smart-temperature-o...

(Under detailed specs, connectivity.)

>>WiFi is still optional according to their FAQ:

"optional" as in it will work in manual mode like a normal thermostat, it would not have any "smart" features with out a wifi connection

>915MHz is on this page:

That is for the sensors, which connect to the Thermostat, but not the thermostat itself

Zigbee can operate on 915MHz radio, but since they do not say the devices are "zigbee certified" I would bet it is some proprietary signal, or some incompatible zigbee that would not work with a non-echobee hub or network, which is one of the main feature people look for in a "ZigBee" device, no vendor lockin, and no cloud requirement

It's not Zigbee, but for anyone looking for a smart thermostat that doesn't rat you out to "the cloud," Honeywell makes a Z-wave thermostat:

https://www.honeywellhome.com/us/en/products/air/thermostats...

I have two that I use with a local Home Assistant install, and I have no complaints.

Mandatory "allow shorts at work" rule should be next.

I find this such a nasty bit of insidious sexism in the workplace. Men are supposed to wear full sleeves and full pants all the time, and being in shorts or short sleeves is seen as unprofessional.

Less of an issue if you WFH but anytime summer hits, take a look in downtown and what people are dressed up in. Women are in light summer dresses or shorts and men are in restrictive full clothing. Same goes for choice of footwear.

I think most women would trade and accept male clothing restrictions rather than the nonsense social requirements of heels, make-up, and all of the rigamarole that goes with women's clothing, between its fragility and difficulty of washing, to its cost, to the inherent sexism of how all of it is "looks over function", mostly pocketless with low utility, etc.

I also don't think most men would trade into that horror scape we've created for women. If you're one of the few men who would, good on you. I say, wear those heels and skirts, and see who cares.

Where I work, women can use shorts and even flip-flops but men must wear trousers and shoes.

Women do wear men's clothing or women's version of it (eg boyfriend jeans) and it is seen as acceptable. Whereas men wearing dresses or skirts is still quite fringe, unless you live in the punk scene in Berlin.

Be the change you want to see in the world.

> nonsense social requirements of heels, make-up

Which part of the world has such social requirements?

If you're a woman and you object, just don't follow that convention. Eventually it won't be a convention anymore.

PS I'm a guy and I think women are more sexy without the heels, makeup, skirtsuits etc. They just look too fake with all the stuff.

> If you're a woman and you object, just don't follow that convention. Eventually it won't be a convention anymore.

> PS I’m a guy

Yeah dude, that’s redundant.

> They just look too fake with all the stuff.

Women don’t exist to be sexy for you. Whether they’re dressing for a standard you like or one you don’t like.

> Yeah dude, that’s redundant

It's my ex's philosophy though. She refuses to dress up for work etc. And has no issues with that.

> Women don’t exist to be sexy for you. Whether they’re dressing for a standard you like or one you don’t like.

Of course but wasn't that the point of the whole standard? My point is it doesn't even work, but I agree it shouldn't even be a thing.

Am woman; I simply opt out of all that rigmarole (such a good word!) and I'm so glad I work in an industry where it doesn't matter. I don't even wear a bra because I can't be bothered with an extra garment for the sole purpose of concealing my nipples. (Chestier people often appreciate their bras, but I'm not generously endowed enough to need the structural support.) Never been called out on any of it, even the bralessness, in professional contexts or otherwise. (I know some will think that's inappropriate — don't care, you'll live.)

I’m a guy who wears a sleeveless t shirt sometimes for the sole purpose of concealing my nipples. Are we in the same boat? We’re mammals for goodness sake!

Women who dress that way are doing it to compete with other women, not because men told them to.

why do they keep working there?

Reading stuff like this makes me glad to live on the west coast, where dad shorts and a t-shirt is appropriate workplace attire.

> I find this such a nasty bit of insidious sexism in the workplace. Men are supposed to wear full sleeves and full pants all the time, and being in shorts or short sleeves is seen as unprofessional.

I'm working in Spain and I never wear anything different than a T-shirt at the office.

I never wear shorts but I just don't like them. I don't think they're expressly forbidden especially with this new law.

It's a poorly designed law though IMO, as there's another law that forbids a workplace to be over 25 degrees if anything other than sedentary work is carried out. Also, 27 is a lot. They just should have taken 25 for this measure. Then both laws would have been complied with and it wouldn't be so severe on the workers.

I know something needed to be done because some shops were like fridges and they kept the doors wide open. But 27 degrees in the office is painful.

Update: They changed it today to 25 :D Makes more sense like I said.

Anytime people advocate for more governmental power.

Indeed. Thankfully there are governments trying to head off the energy crisis before the blackouts hit. Rather than leaving it to individuals to make their own choices in a game of prisoners dilemma where some of the losers will literally die.

That's quite a sensational scenario you've presented there.

You do know people need electricity to live right? That people that don't have AC die during heat waves, right? What do you think would happen if there's not enough power during a heat wave?

The reason there isn't enough power in the first place is because of the government.

The government is making new laws to compensate for the laws it's already made.

And also, do you think the upper class has to follow these Air Conditioner laws?

https://www.power-technology.com/comment/spain-nuclear-power...

This all sounds very inane. These measures are part of Germany's demand that all EU countries reduce their gas consumption by 15% . Countries like spain do not depend on russian gas so this does not benefit them in any substantial way. And airconditioning is hardly the highest in energy consuption. It is more efficient if people share the A/C of a crowded place, rather than every person going back home to use their home A/C alone. And this is august, when PVs are most productive and wind as well. And, i m sorry but 27C with 52% humidity is intolerable to me, i cant work and i can barely function, So goodbye work.

The EU could have used this time to maybe seek alternative gas sources , dig for oil and gas in its territories, and ramp up coal and lignite as an alternative to gas.

> It is more efficient if people share the A/C of a crowded place, rather than every person going back home to use their home A/C alone

The vast majority of homes in Spain do not have AC.

as an israeli (we have very similar climates) I find this incomprehensible.

Perhaps your standard of living is higher? Spain is a relatively poor country and energy costs are not really scaleable to local standards.

I live in Spain and I wouldn't even consider getting AC with the current energy prices.

AC is one of those things you can’t live without once you get used to it, but that you don’t really notice the abscence of otherwise. I grew up in a hot place place with no AC, and while I now have AC, I usually never start it below ~28-30 Celsius.

Correct, I don't have one either and neither do my colleagues. This was one of the things that brought us to the office.

I live in the south of Spain and I can’t think of anybody who doesn’t own an AC.

Of course in the south the proportion is going to be higher, but overall only 33% of houses in Spain had AC in 2019 [1].

[1]:https://www.idealista.com/news/inmobiliario/vivienda/2019/07...

The title is misleading because those guys don't use Fahrenheit units. Therefore it seems technically false to claim that "Spain bans offices, bars and shops from setting AC below 80 degrees." A small nuance, but CBS News I guess.

Is the title also misleading because it’s not written in Spanish?

Sí.

No, it's misleading because they are quoting someone for something they did not say.

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