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Comment by lamontcg | Hacker News Reader

> However, it's not always obvious which robo calls are legitimate and which aren't.

I can make this real simple. I don't want any robocalls.

I feel you. Still, there are legitimate uses for robocalls. My doctor’s office uses robocalls for lab test results, so that patients can get their lab results as soon as the lab tech puts it in the computer instead of having to wait for a person to make the call. Sure, you can email/text these results for most people, but there are still some older folks who don’t know how to email/text.

That's cool - we can wait two extra days for a call from our doctor if it's warranted. I don't need instantaneous feedback on my bloodwork.

Well, grandma does need her bloodwork results. And she's the one most likely to fall for a robocall scam anyway.

And do you think illicit callers are going to follow the law? They're already committing wire fraud, and the software already exists.

Yea - I think illicit callers are going to follow laws whenever possible. "Criminals always be crime-ing" is an argument that can be used to counter having any laws but it has a fatal flaw - criminals generally don't want unnecessary attention. The more agencies they piss off by violating regulations the more likely it is that their activities will be suspended.

A lot of the crime you see on TV comes from highly irrational and unpredictable people, but scamming is usually a pretty rational decision if you live somewhere where repercussions are unlikely and the expected income is high.

I'm not arguing that we should roll back any legislation against wire fraud or spam calls. I am saying that the evidence demonstrates that those laws were not effective in deterring the overseas criminals who continue to constitute the bulk of these calls. They are simply not in the jurisdiction in which we are passing these laws. If US wire fraud charges aren't enough attention, I'm not sure what marginal increase in attention one could possibly expect from an additional law.

I get an e-mail and they show up on a web UI and it is instantaneous more or less.

And I don't know why I have to get robocalls because gramma can't operate the internet.

And both my 80+ year old parents can navigate the internet well enough to get lab test results off of websites.

We should still take into account the usability of public utilities for those who struggle with internet illiteracy or disabilities, regardless of how well your parents can cope. A full 25% of people 65+ don't use the internet in any capacity at all.

Again, why does this mean that I have to suffer from robocalls, other than cynical justification to defend robocalls in the abstract and continue to inflict them on everyone?

I suppose if you have enough money, you might be able to convince AT&T or your local lawmaker to cater specifically to your desires.

I just doubt that the result of your stated preference is a solution that would be workable enough for the general public. The rest of the world just wants the spam calls to go away but still get calls from their bank/pharmacy/doctor/school/etc. Asking them to choose between the two is not a solution for them, even if it is for you. No law maker is going to propose that. And your carrier already DGAF.

If this was an option available to every consumer I suspect uptake would be closer to 50% or more. It would look a lot more like Apple's privacy features than some bespoke setting that I'm the only person in the world who cares about it. And this is probably what you're actually afraid of for some reason.

I don't doubt that, I'm sure 50% of people will check the option thinking it'll just block spam. The problem is that blocking robocalls entirely would block legitimate calls that they're not aware of until it'll cause pain and frustration down the line.

Most people do want fraud notifications from their bank, notifications from their utilities about maintenance, notifications that their kid's school is closed today, a call back from customer service when they ask for one, etc. But nobody would think or even have the ability to know about this when checking your "block all robocalls" option, and now you have created a new problem.

If you give people a footgun, they will use it, and they will blame whoever came up with the idea. This is why nobody will do what you are asking.

What's the number of people 65+ who don't use a phone in any capacity at all? It's not zero.

There will always be people left to the wayside, and we need to act when that number is manageable. 25% might be way too much to legislate against robocalls in all forms, but we need to weigh the loss against the gains; how many seniors would benefit from less scams?

Of course, there are always exceptions. 25% of a major demographic is not one, though. I know that young people and those working in tech are totally over voice calls, but outside of our bubble, people still use telephones as telephones.

I definitely appreciated getting called quickly the last time i got a covid test

Then you can leave robocalls on.

Imposing that option on people negates its usefulness. Which option would you recommend to your elderly relatives? Accept robocalls from international scammers or receive updates from their doctors office?

You might as well ban robocalls for legitimate uses too, since legitimate users won't be able to rely on it anymore.

I agree it's not a 100% solution for all cases ever. But it's still a strict improvement for many people.

My doctor (well, their hospital system) uses Epic/MyChart as their EMR. I also have the MyChart app on my phone. I get a push notification via the MyChart app when anything new posts to my chart - no phone call, text, or email required. And I don't want the push notifications, I could opt out of that too.

Surely most doctors offices use a vanishingly small amount of EMR providers, and they could support similar very easily.

The people who use the hospital system the most are the ones who are the least likely to be able to use those functions effectively.

Never underestimate how out of touch and incapable of understanding other people HN nerds are.

Politicians exempted themselves from the do not call list: https://www.khou.com/article/news/verify/verify-yes-robocall...

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