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Comment by micromacrofoot | Hacker News Reader

I wonder if at-will employment in the US influences this. If I'm bus factor 1, they're less likely to fire me.

I have anxiety around losing my job, which makes me more likely to say yes to piling on tasks. It doesn't seem so crazy when you consider my healthcare is directly attached to my employment.

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Even if they don't fire you, saying no (to anything, ever) will come back to bite you when performance reviews (and raises and bonuses and stock grants) come around. OP is falling into the common internet commenter trap of assuming that the way the world should work is the way the world does work.

Maya Angelou has a quote that's supposed to be inspirational but is actually depressing as hell: "People will forget what you did, people will forget what you said, but they'll never forget how you made them feel." Want to actually succeed in the actual real world and not the fantasy world internet commenters exist in? Focus on making people feel, not on results. If you say "no", they'll remember you made them feel like the person who turned them away when they needed you most. If you just say yes to everything and get to what you can get to, you'll make them feel like the person who tried their best.

Until all of civilization starts rewarding actual results over vague feelings (it never has), focus on appearances.

so, say "no", but be polite about it.

if somebody is butthurt because you refused to take on more than you are able to... that's a bad spot to be in no matter if you refuse or not.

> if somebody is butthurt because you refused to take on more than you are able to... that's a bad spot to be in no matter if you refuse or not.

Okay, but…if you work a job not for fun but because you need the money, then you’re still better off in the bad spot with a job than the bad spot without a job.

You may be better off without a job where you are managed by a 5 year old.

I can understand if this is the first time it happens, but some people still complain about this after 5 years of dealing with the same thing.

At that point it’s their own fault.

> You may be better off without a job where you are managed by a 5 year old.

If you happen to have access to free food, shelter, etc. and were only holding a job for fun, then sure!

It isn't that hard to interview and find another job while still working.

It might feel short-term good to have someone say yes, but when they don’t fulfill their agreement that leaves a more long-term feeling that their answers in the future will be unreliable (“Yeah, X told me they’ll do it soon, we’ll see if they actually do…”).

Communicating honestly (“If we need that done today, we have to deprioritize something else to make time”) will get you further unless you’re dealing with very immature management.

An "underperforming" worker can consistently underperform though, and that consistency might make people feel good. Ultimately you're right on a deep level, but perhaps there are other ways to produce good feelings than what you've suggested.

The recency of the good feelings matters too. If you push back now and set expectations for everyone, then a year from now your boss will probably remember the consistency more than the push-back.

Of course, it will depend on the people involved.

This reminds me of the idea that most people's actual job is to make/keep their boss happy, and what they think of as their job is just a means to that end.

> saying no (to anything, ever) will come back to bite you when performance reviews (and raises and bonuses and stock grants) come around

Any employer that does this is toxic. You should find a new place to work. One of the hardest and most important professional soft skills is knowing when to say no and setting proper boundaries.

Dang, you can easily draw a connection between unstable work environments and unstable technical products. It's directly in the workers benefit to keep a product reliant on them or else they could just die. That's crazy.

When you're reliant on healthcare and live in America that is first concern before anything else. Not to turn a post political, but the employer-tied healthcare situation in America is borderline a form of slavery. In tech it is simply well-paid slavery. I rarely if ever take vacations, and due to healthcare requirements cannot explore starting my own company or being without an employer to take an extended sabbatical from work. I am well compensated for my role and generally do well but if I lose my health insurance my life can be measured in months. It's a stressor that is hard to describe.

Yeah, and it ultimately harms everything. It's so interesting that ultimately this system would produce lower quality products and suppress innovation. I wonder if countries with more flexibility in health-care will have more start-ups?

Almost all other developed countries have more flexibility with healthcare! Certainly it's never been part of any of my career decisions (in Australia). I don't believe it has much bearing on the number of start-ups, even successful ones - the US has too many other factors that overwhelmingly give it the advantage there - but I'm pretty sure it has been shown to affect upward mobility in general (America rates quite low on that compared to other countries with better safety nets and public/single payer healthcare systems, though other factors like cost of education almost certainly come into play).

Nothing borderline about that.

A lack of universal healthcare available to all regardless of employment status is absolutely damaging us as individuals.

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