I think this is a good thing. The more tightly coupled with GNOME Wayland becomes, the more useless it will be for everybody else. X11 will remain relevant and useful for everybody who thinks the GNOME environment is crap.
Why should we let GNOME keep us from moving on to newer tech?
Edit: In case you want to know why X11 is janky and bad, check out this architecture overview: https://wayland.freedesktop.org/architecture.html
So I decided to just stick with X and not bother with Wayland until at least 2023-2024, and of course I would like X to still work in the meantime and it probably will.
When Wayland was born you couldn't do anything to prevent that, now we have like 6 sandboxing/light-virtualization options for Linux, so I suspect that by containerizing applications in Xorg you could prevent them from keylogging easily. That too right now is mostly crappy and fragmented in Linux with the AppImage Snap and flatpak circus.
And no, I don’t think you can really do that with x11. There was Trusted X11 long time ago, but I don’t think it was practically useful - as in, maintainable and sustainable.
As far as I understand sandboxing in Linux is “70% there” - it will get there eventually, but for now the 30% hole makes it not practically useful. It’s not bad at pretending it’s doing something though, and for (many? most?) paying customers that’s enough.
What a ridiculous argument. In X11 you don't even need to preload a library to do it is the bloody point.
Nor will I give a shit about Wayland until OpenBSD forks it, audits it to within an inch of its miserable life, and incorporates it into its base distribution to replace Xenocara.
Fuck Wayland.
Fortunately Xorg works splendidly.
Why are you angry on wayland ? Because they try to make things better for normal people ?
I was using until recently Sandy Bridge platform, and It works fine. I am not expecting that it would be supported forever. There is a lot of performance and maintainability left on the table because of support for old devices. If anything, I wish for Linux world for more aggressive deprecation policy.
> People should not have to throw out otherwise working hardware because a bunch of nerds who weren't bullied enough in high school don't feel like putting in some effort.
You can just leave Linux community, nobody will miss you.
(I knew someone would have mentioned the modern DOS emulation layers and missed the point.)
"Hey, so decades of work has gone into Window Managers and Desktop Environments. How will we preserve those going forward with this?"
And the answer appears to have been "Eh, we wont. Maybe later? They can just rewrite them all or something." Madness.
Well, I guess theoretically that might be true...
The inconvenient truth is they are working towards a cohesive desktop experience, even supporting mobile. X11 will still be here, but you can't blame the devs for wanting to move on.
Operating systems should be designed for all humans, not just programmers. Gnome seems to be the only DE that cares about accessibility. All of your settings and extensions mean nothing to someone who needs all of their apps to work with a screen reader.
This article and these comments suck. No one wants to contribute code, just opinions. Reminds me of the systemd FUD.
You can fork, hack, make your case with Wayland, maybe it gets merged, maybe you just maintain your own fork. These criticisms by people who aren't going to contribute anyway are getting tired.
I find myopic that GNOME and KDE are working towards a cohesive user computing experience starting from "one-size-fits-all widgets" and data as an afterthought. Red Hat freedesktopers aren't designing anything for all humans, they always tire themselves on some all-encompassing project then adapted for two niche use-cases that generate revenue.
But I don't care no more, I'm using Xorg and Xenocara, runit, will probably going to hack on Arcan someday.
Fixing X11 is basically shaving an infinite number of yaks. Wayland is the X11 developers trying to bound the problem to a finite number of yaks. They can only do this by punting everything they possibly can out of the system.
To be perfectly honest, the Wayland developers don't have an option.
Screenshots are a continual complaint--but it is by no means settled as to what entity and mechanism controls the security and permissions behind that and how. Punting window decorations to the clients is annoying--but any other choice likely means that you need a full text rendering system in your window manager. And if you want an "interesting" task, go help both the X11 and Wayland devlopers deal with all the race conditions and problems around the "simple" task of integrating with Vulkan and getting/presenting a surface and handling the swapchains (extension VK_KHR_surface, VK_KHR_swapchain, VK_KHR_xlib_surface, VK_KHR_wayland_surface)--lots of bugs exist and have since 2015. Try tackling the sequence of events around "resize"--you're in for an eye-opening experience.
Yet, even after the Wayland guys atomized this stuff, nobody in the open source software world is picking up the work. Maybe the DeadRat guys are rejecting submissions, but I suspect it's more that people simply aren't willing to grind through this stuff. It's a bunch of detailed, system-level programming with LOTS of gotchas all over the place.
Dunno. Maybe they should say that they are rewriting it in Rust. That might actually attract some people willing to put in work.