Comment by js2 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by js2 | Hacker News Reader

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Italy compared to U.S.:

https://www.thetruesize.com/#?borders=1~!MTY3OTMzNjA.NTkxNzE...

U.S compared to Europe:

https://www.thetruesize.com/#?borders=1~!MTc4NDEwOTE.MjkxMDg...

My daughter, visiting home from college this weekend, took Amtrak from Richmond, VA yesterday. She's taking the train back Monday. Without delay, the train takes about 4 hours. Driving takes about 3 hours. Add an extra 15 minutes on each side for getting to/from the station, so 4:30 hours vs 3 hours. Distance is 150 miles (241 km).

Cost of the train is $42 (coach) each way. Cost of gasoline would be ~ $24 each way.

Her train yesterday departed about 30 minutes late and arrived an hour late. Supposedly it may have been traveling slower due to the heat wave.

Here's a live map of the Amtrak network:

https://www.amtrak.com/track-your-train.html

That's just our national train system. Many municipalities have their own patchwork of train networks. Some off the top of my head: BART, LIRR, MTA, MBTA T, Metro (D.C., Atlanta), L (Chicago), Metrorail (Miami).

The "murica is big" excuse is silly.

What really matter, obviously, is population density. And population density would justify passenger railways on the coasts and in more than half of the US:

https://www.ecoclimax.com/2016/10/population-density-of-worl...

Additionally, it's also based on the flawed assumption that transportation should adapt to the locations of where people live rather than the other way around.

> Cost of the train is $42 (coach) each way. Cost of gasoline would be ~ $24 each way.

The cost of driving is more than just the cost of gasoline.

Not if you already own the car. Then the cost of the car and insurance are sunk costs that do not count. Sure there is a little wear and tear, but that adds just a couple bucks.

If you buy a car/rent for that trip alone, then the cost of driving is far higher. However for most Americans the cost of a car is a sunk cost that cannot be counted. If you live someplace where it is possible to live without a car, then you can make that argument, but most of us do not.

The resale value of the car, insurance (even if you don’t do pay per mile, insurance quotes are generally going to have some basis in miles driven per year), and maintenance are all directly correlated with miles driven. So, while these are often treated as sunk costs, that is due to improper accounting.

So, to reiterate, the cost of driving is much more than the cost of gas.

Age of a car is the largest factor of value, not miles. Used to be cars wore out in 70,000 miles, but the 1970s are long gone. Yes miles lower the value of a car a bit, but not much.

I do a similar travel distance (between 213km - 230km by car on the highway) monthly minimum between Amsterdam - Brussels taking the inter-regional train (NS) (understand the "slow") : 2h45 for around 25-29 EUR each way if booked a few days in advance. The fastest one with the Thalys is 1h55 for around 90EUR. Driving take around the same time than the slowest way ~2h30.

The Amtrak trains are slow? I mean even adjusting for the potential 40 to 10km difference and the fact that the NS does between 8 to 10 stop depending where you want to go out in Brussels or Amsterdam, 4h for a 241km trip is slow.

It is a bit cheating as if you want to do Brussels - Arlon, a 190-ish km trip inside Belgium, it will take you 2h45. And if you want to more or less cross Belgium from North to South (Oostende to Arlon), 310-ish km trip will take you around 4h15 by train and between 3 to 4h by car due to the fact that you will take the Brussels ring road. So small country, yep. Still 4h for 241km is slow.

The IRS allows business travelers 58.5 cents a mile.

That is closer to your total cost of use of your automobile.

IRS 2022 Business milage rates:

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/irs-issues-standard-mileage-rat...

I thought that was so high, so I ran the numbers using some median and average values and I got pretty close.

The average vehicle costs $40k, is owned for 11 years, gets driven 13k miles per year, burns 25 mpg, gas costs $3/gal, insurance is $1500 per year, and the vehicle needs $900 per year in maintenance and repairs.

A lot of people spend far less than this (my car cost me $0.384/mile so far), and some spend far more, but it's not a bad approximation.

Businesses generally are allowed to depreciate automobiles over five years, and you might guess it is because they get a fairly high amount of use.

And built into the IRS rate is probably an expectation of significant repairs.

That changes the capital costs.

Most people are paying 4.00 to 5.00 dollars a gallon these days.

At a generous $4.00 a gallon, and as you indicate, .04 gallons per mile, gas alone is lately above 0.16 cents a mile. At $5, that would be 0.20 cents.

Generously (on the thrifty side) estimating, at minimum, capital, insurance and maintenance doubles cost of gasoline alone.

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