Build business apps in .NET - not HTML or JavaScript | Hacker News Reader

Build business apps in .NET - not HTML or JavaScript

neverindoubtnet.blogspot.com

19 pointsjohns11 comments

I am...

1. Primarily a C# developer

2. In charge of the IT needs for an agency of 250+ computers

3. Currently have over 20 Microsoft certifications in Development and Server technology.

Having said all that let me say he's completely wrong. Not only is he wrong he can't be very dialed in to his own community because almost everyone I talk to in the Microsoft business app arena is an ASP.NET developer at this point. I don't know anyone developing desktop apps anymore.

Beyond that he seems to be one of those developers who thinks a business app means stuff like the Entity Framework (Microsoft's overly complicated data modeling tool). Hence his belief that "the tools don't exist to write his app in JS/HTML5" or that "there is no place to learn how to make HTML/JS business apps" (someone should point him to all those IBM guides on Python)

Finally the root of his misconceptions is this idea that "Windows is the only OS that matters in Business Apps". I'm sorry but that just isn't true anymore. At least not if you look to the future. Microsoft's Metro interface is more foreign to users than the Mac is and the Mac connects to existing Domain servers.

So I, and many other people I know, are starting to give serious consideration to using Macs in the near future. Especially with users adopting iPhones and iPads (and no it doesn't matter how much sense a Windows 8 tablet makes if the CEO of your company loves his iPad and wants everyone to have one).

Bottom Line: This is a person living in 2008

I decided to take a break from the .net community a while back, recently I decided to start going to meetings again and theres been a heavy mind shift that I've seen. Lots of extremely defensive people, lots of people saying things similar to this guys article.

If you go back to your date of 2008 MS devs where on top of the world, quite smug, standing on pedestals, lauding over other programmers... The whole Balmer "developer developers developers" summed up the buzz in the community.

What I've seen just recently is the completely opposite, theres fear in the community, theres a lot of people who built there careers on the coat tails of MS... and MS seems to be failing them. Microsoft aren't helping the situation by being cagey about the future of there platform.

Theres lots of talk of other platforms at the meetings, people asking equations like "What others languages have you used?" , "Can you use Objective-C?", and of cause discussions around those types of questions. Others usually very opinionated seem very quiet. Its not the saw community I've been mulling with for the last decade.

MS is loosing the loyalty of its developers in my group, and if this is wide spread then I think you're going to see more and more articles like this, proclaiming more and more outrageous claims about why MS is the best.

For me, I've halted my windows development and started porting my apps to Objective-C, Java, and python. I can't be bothered with uncertainty. OSX is stable for me, I like the interface (and it doesn't get in my way like Win7 and Win8 does), and although I really enjoy C# and visual studio I'm prepared to give other things ago.

I want to be as cool as this guy when I grow up.

I really want to believe the mouthpiece over at Microsoft, he makes a convincing argument, "nobody is skilled in HTML _5_", what does that even mean? Clearly this guy doesn't even know what he is battling here.

Everyone knows business apps don't need to be cross platform, and none of us know what we're doing. I won't even waste my time listing the tools available for modern JS projects, especially for data-centric applications.

What we need are MORE single-platform alternatives! Because anyone who is actually getting work done, is doing it on the platform made by the company who is writing my checks!

What a tool.

Is it just me or is this blog post not clear on what the definition of "business app" is? If it's for internal use, fine, whatever. If it's for enterprise application for millions of users, build the backend in C#/Java/Python/Ruby/Erlang/yourlanguagehere and build the frontend in something crossplatform like HTML/JS or Flash/Air. If you plan developing apps as a business, look at the SaaS/SaaP/cloud model.

Unsurprisingly all the answers here are from the Python and Ruby community folk. Have a look on a Job board for LoB apps that require those two languages and you'll get a shock.

You choose .NET or Java or C++ for the real world apps that large businesses use to talk to other large businesses. The reason is these companies (minus banks perhaps) all run Windows, with Active Directory and all use Outlook and Exchange.

Design agencies producing iPhone apps and websites don't use those technologies and get monkeys to produce HTML and JS.

In the past month I have heard from the founders of two startups who both had late-stage acquisition talks sour when technical due-diligence raised that they had all or large amounts of their stack in .NET.

Even Enterprise companies that run .NET are mostly trying to get off of it, and so unlikely to want to acquire more .NET code.

If that's a good reason NOT to build in .NET, I don't know what is

No Ward Bell. You're wrong.

Also, why does everyone seem to be emphasizing this fantastic new technology, HTML5? HTML5 is just good ole fashioned HTML with a few new tags. I assume they're not calling out the header tag, or the nav tag, or the wbr tag...

When people say HTML5 do they really mean canvas? or CSS3 styles? And what does Ward here mean "nobody is skilled in HTML _5_"?

Why the upvotes with no corresponding complimentary comments?

My problem with this article is that the author defines his problem away. "Sovereign app", "user paid to use the app", he gets to the point where just about the only thing to do is write a .NET app. He explicitly disallows clever/disruptive apps, the kind that just might negate the need for a "sovereign app".

0 click install seems to be a pretty good feature to me, you don't have to carry around an .exe file. You can make your web app run as fast as your native app, if most of the data processing happens on a central server anyway.

Of course you can provide more sugar with native apps, no doubt about it, but nowadays web apps can be pretty good, there are exceptionally good tools out there and portability of your app is a really good selling point.

Ward Bell is right and a visionary to boot.

I hope all our competitors read this blog and follow his advice.

what a self serving tool. Anyone building anything today is building as a web app.

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