Furthermore, this is a geopolitical risk. If the west doesnt uphold the principles we purport to represent then our support dwindles and allies who were on the fence will fall against us.
This is the first time i've heard this one! I have heard others too like "we live in handcuffs, pretty and fuzzy handcuffs, but handcuffs no less..."
EDIT: I should have added that: i totally agree with you on the sentiment!
Stalinism was economic totalitarianism with a goal and an exit strategy. Authoritarianism was supposed to be a phase; the system would moderate itself over time. The degree to which that would have actually happened, we don't know. External forces destroyed the Soviet Union, so all we can do is speculate, but I suspect that if it had been left alone, it'd have fixed a lot of its problems and be a decent place to live by now.
The corporate system we have now is also economic totalitarianism. Financial interests decide where you can live, what jobs you can do, and what kind of reputation you have in the community. The issue here is that it's economic totalitarianism with no exit strategy. Neoliberalism insists that things have never been better (despite substantial evidence to the contrary) and there's no reason to exit from economic totalitarianism when we should, instead, "own nothing, have no privacy, and be happy".
> External forces destroyed the Soviet Union
The Soviet Union was stagnating from within. Moscow was losing control and the Baltic Republics, frustrated with the slow pace of reform, one by one seceded. I'm not sure how you're blaming that on external forces.
> if it had been left alone, it'd have fixed a lot of its problems and be a decent place to live by now.
Given the above, I highly doubt that.
I'm a bit incredulous that you're defending Stalinism.
While I am a socialist politically, I very much disagree with this. Stalinism was economic totalitarianism for the sake of Stalin. The claims of a brighter communist future were all obvious propaganda lies. Socialism died in Russia almost as soon as Lenin assumed power and dissolved the factory councils (soviets) - after that, "socialism" and "communism" were only propaganda terms for the next 50 years, just like they claimed they were "democratic" and a "people's republic".
It really is delusional to think that one of the greatest murderers in history, one with a huge personality cult, had been in essence working for the good of his people...
I did not intend to argue that Stalin himself expected to bring about a communist utopia. It's more likely that he was a straight-out liar. Still, I think the USSR's government and society could only function, in the long run, if it offered progress in line with its promises, just as the US can only function by promoting a mythology of individual freedom and exceptional destiny.
The promise made to the people was that economic totalitarianism would end. It never did, but we still don't know if that was because the USSR was irredeemably corrupt, or because the country was attacked by some of the world's most egregious assholes (the czarists, then the Nazis, then the capitalists).
> Neoliberalism insists that things have never been better
If you wanna play that dumb "zoom out until everything looks the same" game then all societies are like Russia. Would there even have been a media article written about this guy had this story been in Russia?
The caveman were almost certainly treating the guy who rocked the boat worse than the guy who didn't. Every society plays favorites to some extent. There's a lot of noise in the data when it comes to how much due process these kinds of "inconvenient to the rulers" people get in modern democracies so any nation can be made to look like Russia depending on who you pick and choose. The lawyer in question looks like he really got unjustifiably screwed but equally "inconvenient to the people on top" people have been left relatively alone in the past.
I think the West used to be better at putting these principles into action although it's true if never has been very consistent.
Who's we? Last I checked it was more or less a coin toss between "murka bad" and "murka bestest" depending on which filter bubble you happened to be in at the minute. Every society tells people that it is the best. I think pride based solely on group membership is a very bad thing at any scale beyond small groups but every organization from the smallest up to nations tries to foster that sentiment to varying extents so...
>I think the West used to be better at putting these principles into action although it's true if never has been very consistent.
I'm inclined to believe this but I'm also inclined to believe a lot more bad stuff was easier to sweep under the rug in the past so the error bars on any "it used to be better" observation are massive. Hearing about these things at all is a prerequisite to changing them.
The rule of law, separation of powers and adherence to procedural rules can be assessed and are regularly assessed by organizations such as freedom house [1]. Sure, these assessments will have some bias, but it is possible to work towards a quasi-objective take.
I'm not making any excuses for any country. A crime is a crime regardless.
The GP likened the US to Russia and I to an extent, disagree. There are fundamental differences in worldview, value for democracy and freedom, respect for individual rights, rule of law, the right to protest and criticize the government, freedom of the press etc between those two nations and between Western democracies and communist/socialist countries. I come from one of the latter and live in the US now so I have first hand experience to compare.
Same here. I was born in the USSR and came to Canada some 30 years ago. I very much prefer it here ;) My point was not about treatment of their own citizens by any particular country. It was how one country treats the others. From that point of view the victims might see the US in much worse light then say Russia. And the same victims might still want to immigrate to the US because they'll be better off in regards for life standard.
When I compare that to the the US's invasion and occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan for example, I see fundamental differences.
Regardless of whether one believes they were justifiable, the nature of the invasions and occupation are quite different compared to Russia's current invasion of Ukraine.
Some of these include
- the intentional and systematic targeting of civilian cities and other public places
- war crimes including rape, murder, running over civilians with tanks.
- the invading military's efforts (or lack thereof) to better the occupied countries' people and government through setting up medical, education, construction and other programs to benefit the society.
Again, I'm not arguing for the justification of the invasions. I'm saying the difference in the invasions and subsequent occupations point to fundamental differences between western democracies and communist/socialist countries.
> they'll be better off in regards for life standard.
Life standard usually means economic standard. I agree many people want to come to the US for that. I'd also say that is not the only reason. Some of things I listed above (e.g. freedom of speech, free society) are strong motivators.
P.S. And I'm not trying to make this personal by picking on the country you're from. I'm from a country that has committed great atrocities and crimes against humanity as well. Again, GP likened the US to Russia and that is what I'm responding to.
Talking about scale - number of dead in Iraq for example would dwarf that of Ukraine. I am not sure about "quality" but I find it repulsive to even talk this way about mass murder.
>" Some of things I listed above (e.g. freedom of speech, free society) are strong motivators."
I agree with that.
>"And I'm not trying to make this personal by picking on the country you're from."
I have no sympathy to that rabid dog Putin and to what he and his lapdogs are doing. Fuck him. Besides it's been more than 30 years. I pretty much feel Canadian ;)
Edit: I was referring to the scale of war crimes committed. See this quote:
> I'm sure the US has committed 1 and 2, but I would assert that the scale and quality
1 and 2 as listed in my comment are categories of war crimes. Russia in five months has committed war crimes at a scale that eclipses the US history of modern warfare. This does not include Russia's past history of documented war crimes.
I meant quality not in the sense of high or low quality of war crimes, but the nature and severity of them. I think a better word in fact is severity. E.g. instances of severe atrocities including rape, murder, torture, targeting of civilians, etc.[1]
Anyways, maybe I'm biased or brainwashed or whatever, but I see a qualitative difference between how the US conducts international affairs and the way Russia, China, North Korea, the Taliban, etc. do.
I don't have the data to back it up, just my personal observations and experience. I trust the US and other western democracies way more than the other countries I listed. The former is nowhere near perfect, but also no where near as bad as these other governments/regimes.
[1] This is severe. https://news.yahoo.com/footage-appears-show-russian-soldier-...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10710451/Rape-Russi...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_in_the_2022_Russian...
Hello from Europe. We exist!
Europe is great and I'd gladly choose most any Western European country over countries like Russia as well.
I believe a lot of people, including people in those Russia like countries would too. And my assertion is that points to fundamental differences between e.g. U.S. and Russia and friends [1] that causes people to much prefer the former over the latter.
[1]. e.g. forcing Shanghai residents into Covid lockdown by welding their doors shut and leaving them to half starve. Can you imagine this happening in the US or Western Europe?
Now that we know the Aussie government does this kind of thing, how many other cases are there that we don't know about? US black sites around the world? Everyone knows about Guantánamo, but how many others are there that don't make the news?