VM/370 Community Edition V1R1.2 released | Hacker News Reader

VM/370 Community Edition V1R1.2 released

vm370.org

62 pointsnix2341 comments

License is "interesting":

The base operating system is IBM's VM/370 Release 6 operating system, the last unlicensed version of VM/370.

Wikipedia has a bit more history about this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VM_(operating_system)#History

I'm guessing because they didn't have attached copyright notices as required in US law at the time they fell into public domain, like happened to It's a Wonderful Life (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_a_Wonderful_Life#Owners...).

> I'm guessing because they didn't have attached copyright notices as required in US law at the time they fell into public domain

In IBM’s case, it wasn’t an oversight, it was an intentional decision. They intentionally put their core mainframe operating systems into the public domain, but they still copyrighted certain applications and add-ons. In later versions (like this one and its immediate predecessors), most new OS features went into copyrighted add-ons only, and the core OS by itself became more and more backward and limited. Then eventually, they came out with new versions of their operating systems where even the core was copyrighted.

They did use other methods of “closing” software than copyright - much of MVS was written in a proprietary dialect of PL/I for which no compiler was publicly available. So even though they shipped the source code to customers, and the source code was public domain, nobody could compile it (unless you wrote your own compiler). VM/CMS (especially at this stage) was still mostly assembler though, so it was easier to modify than MVS was.

This is the OS I started out on. It's been a long time since I typed #CP IPL CMS PARM AUTOCR on a 3270.

I still remember starting the Mantis IDE (we didn’t call them IDEs at the time) with a

  //EXEC PGM=MANTIS

I need to update my Docker images with this. In reality, someone needs to write a Hitchhiker's Guide to VM/370, CP and CMS. I haven't been able to do much beyond seeing what's on the disks and running some sample programs.

True,

But Moshix has pretty good videos:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCR1ajTWGiUtiAv8X-hpBY7w

Vm?

I saw his mvs and that is good. But that assume I alright have the mvs3.8 installed and running.

For starter vm not sure any good starting point by him or otherwise.

https://www.youtube.com/c/moshix/search?query=vm

Now if I can get XEDIT, 370 Assembler, and a Modula 2 compiler, I could recreate my college experience.

Going back to where you lived before is the best (if not the only) way to cure yourself of nostalgia. (You may or may not want to do that.)

Not sure I agree completely with that. These were simpler OSs for a simpler time. A lot of what I do today I accomplished in the 80s with an Apple II, a phone line, and a modem. I read emails (we didn’t call them that back then), wrote software, built databases, discussed esoteric topics in BBSs… Even met my first wife online over a Minitel-like system.

Similar for me but on BBC-B Micro. Rose tinted memories perhaps. And replication of that experience now would be a very interesting exercise in patience and acceptance for me. Indeed simpler times.

Could I personally go back? As much as technology has given us super fast hardware, very complex and flexible operating systems, GUIs and complex software am I any better off for it? Outside of my professional work where I have to deliver my work within a defined technology stack, I wonder how much I could do without and go back in time.

And even then a lot of what I produce professionally resides in text files, so I could originate them on an older system - the key to this is, of course, interconnectivity or a bridging technology. SCSI to USB stick anyone!

As much as there is an alternative lifestyle to be had rooted in minimalism and contentment in simpler things (which I aspire to) I am tempted to stop the hyper-driven tech world and get off!

Reading the work and enthusiasm of retro-computing people is actually quite inspiring.

> And even then a lot of what I produce professionally resides in text files, so I could originate them on an older system - the key to this is, of course, interconnectivity or a bridging technology. SCSI to USB stick anyone!

One think I did a lot, which is kind of cheating, is to use X to run the heavy lifting on my Linux box while sitting in front of a Sun.

A lot of what we do is just larger versions of what we did before. We call batch processing ETL and use tables instead of tapes, but the ideas are there.

And, unlike some MacBooks, a BBC has an ESC key ;-)

Sure, but you might lose some of the fondness of those memories if you tried and repeat the same experience today.

I routinely do. I have a number of old computers that are still functional. Won’t be writing anything to network drives from the Apple II, but DOS PCs (yuck!) and Macs are fair game.

I gotta admit XEDIT was kind of interesting for the left side command area.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XEDIT

You’ll need a beam spring keyboard. ;-)

I actually have one (or close to it) since we have an old AS/400 terminal in the backroom. We bought a new iSeries and that, sadly, uses a PC as a console terminal.

HP needs to do this with VAX/VMS.

Indeed, the irony that they call it OpenVMS now when you can only get an evaluation for comercial use and they explicitly bar hobbiests is a shame.

Unless things have changed recently, hobbyists can sign up for a license for OpenVMS. However a condition of the license is that you can't use a hobbyist license for commercial purposes.

HPE has divested VMS Software Inc., so if you want hobbyist license you have to go to VSI and not to HPE. And under VSI the process of getting the hobyist license is simpler (ie. you don't have to be member of anything) and IIRC you can even get images of installation media directly from VSI.

Interesting, do you have a link?

I went via https://vmssoftware.com/ and the get Get OpenVMS link which yeilds a form that has:

"To help us qualify your application for this evaluation release kit, please fill out the following survey. Please be advised that community (hobbyist) licenses are not currently available, evaluation licenses are provided to commercial customers only."

https://vmssoftware.com/community/community-license/

Thank you - now just have to await for their "planned" x86 includion into this program. Sadly lost all my old unix server in a move decade ago :(

If you have windows you can use the "StudentKit"

https://virtuallyfun.com/wordpress/2022/04/18/ready-to-run-o...

VSI does not have the rights to VMS on VAX, and so it's not included in their hobbyist license program.

Thank you for the information. Do you know if hobbyist licenses acquired before the divesture will still be honored?

Things changed.

Open has nothing todo with opensource but with "open" abi.

Same with OpenServer from SCO

True but then it was somewhat a fashion of the time to add Open to things (marketing trying to capitalise upon the Opensource movement heh). For VMS the history is:

"In July 1992, DEC renamed VAX/VMS to OpenVMS as an indication for its support of open systems industry standards such as POSIX and Unix compatibility, and to drop the VAX connection since a migration to a different architecture was underway."

Likewise there is very few Open in POSIX and UNIX standards, for a long time, just like with ISO C and C++, one really needed to buy them in paper form to read them.

It definitely was a fashion then to add "open" to names but this predates the wide use of the term "open source".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source#Open_source_as_a_t...

It's referring to the "Open Systems" hype of the 80s / early 90s. The term "open source" became popular only much later.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_system_(computing)

What else are we going to congratulate them for, not requiring licensing to open a new TCP socket?

>congratulate

Why? Did you do that toward's SCO?

But later you found out about BSD's?

If you look at Windows from very, very close, you’ll see the VMS inside it.

No idea why that could be

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Cutler

Really?

Historia vero testis temporum, lux veritatis, vita memoriae, magistra vitae, nuntia vetustatis, qua voce alia nisi oratoris immortalitati commendatur?

Historia docet historiam numquam docere.

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