Comment by tobiasu | Hacker News Reader

Comment by tobiasu | Hacker News Reader

Couldn't read the article as the server is overloaded. But I have some thoughts about the headline. This may contain some hyperbole, you have been warned.

I don't understand Berlins appeal. It has one fatal flaw: no industry. In my opinion the great parts of Germany are where the world-famous "Mittelstand" sits. Is that in Berlin? I would argue it's not. Berlin is called "the city of students, the unemployed and cab drivers" by many, and probably not without reason.

Berlin is our hipster-central. However German engineers much prefer the living standards of Bavaria or BW instead of getting their Audi/BMW/Merc torched and their property vandalized. You're not getting lots of these people to move to Berlin. Big (US) IT corps know this, almost all of them have their headquarters in the south.

Now, if you're after 20somethings with no family, low income expectations and you build webapps using $WhateverIsCoolOnHN that targets other 20somethings around the globe - sure, go to Berlin. But then why don't you start wherever you are and get going instead of looking for another excuse that delays your product?

If your business plan even remotely involves selling goods or services to companies, you've chosen the wrong spot of Germany. The same is true for finances, Berlin is constantly broke and banks cling on to their money for obvious reasons.

And if your business plan involves pushing lots of data, you should be in Frankfurt.

I spent a month in Berlin last year with the idea of possibly staying there longer-term. I had a great time there, and I might go back, but it does seem to be a young person's culture. It would be an amazing place to be 20-25.

Try google cache

Well, don't you sound bitter and boring.

I'd guess you're one of the 20somethings he's talking about, right?

As someone who lives in Berlin for more than 4 years, involved in IT, I can definitely says he is 100% right. I would say Munich is the place to if you want do to something in this industry.

Funny, most people i talked to and who worked in Munich, find it horrible, mostly the people :P

I always say, if not Berlin (born here, live here, love it) i'd only consider going to Hamburg in Germany.

Overall i think what is most appealing about Berlin is the multicultural and historic (east-west) diversity it has. Berlin certainly is sort of dirty but that's also part of its character.

Also, especially for IT and start ups Berlin is perfect (it doesn't matter to live in the industry heavy south for IT! and the cheap rents are certainly appealing here).

No, I'm in my thirties and have also lived in Berlin, and am also a German citizen. Thanks though

Munich, Stuttgart, Hamburg or Hanover. I am a postdoc in CS who is looking to get into industry and my wife is in manufacturing. As much as we wish to go to Berlin, it is very difficult for her to find a relevant job in manufacturing there.

All our German friends have recommended us Stuttgart as the place to be for industry.

I've never heard a German not from Bavaria recommend living in Munich! Among my German friends (both in IT and elsewhere) it has the reputation of being the place for Bavarians, CSU-voting conservatives, and tourists looking for Oktoberfest and lederhosen. I think they're particularly annoyed that Americans' image of what Germany is like is so heavily based on Bavaria, too.

Their recommendation if you want to make a lot of money is to live in southern Baden-Württemberg and commute across the border to Switzerland, or if you want culture, to live in Berlin...

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