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Comment by knb | Hacker News Reader

I live near Berlin. There is much wisdom in this essay on startups written by Paul Graham in 2006:

http://www.paulgraham.com/siliconvalley.html

Quote: "I think you only need two kinds of people to create a technology hub: rich people and nerds. "

Regarding Nerds: There are certainly a lot of nerds in Berlin. Are they elite technology geeks? Maybe. But lots of such nerds are willing to move to Berlin. Check passed.

Regarding Rich people/investors: There are actually relatively few rich people in Berlin. (Berlin is so cheap for a reason: it is a very poor city). So this key success factor is still underrepresented. Check NOT passed.

Just sayin'.

Don't expect too much.

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I live in Munich and just the opposite is true -- well, sort of. We've got lots of nerds and plenty of money but not much entrepreneurial activity. Too sedentary -- but why?

Good question. I'm a Berliner but am currently "stuck" (long story) in Munich. It's got everything: stuff just works, everything's clean, safe and pretty, lots of money around, and one of the best technical universities in Germany to boot. And yet, and yet, something is missing.

From what little I know, it appears that the more "dynamic" people move to Berlin to entreprendre something, and the less adventurous (dare I say "corporate"-type) ones stay or come here to work for BMW et al. This is regardless of their talent or capability, btw, it's just my subjective impression of personality types.

As for me, I'm torn between my old hometown and Zurich so Munich might be a good compromise even if I get unstuck but we'll see ;-)

You are completely right -- and it's really too bad because some combination of the two would be ideal. I wonder if it is easier to start a "startup culture" in Munich or a "get stuff working" culture in Berlin. I guess since I'm also "stuck" in Munich for the moment myself I'd prefer to work on moving things forward in here (hosting hackathons, etc.)

btw, what makes you think Zurich would be better?

> what makes you think Zurich would be better?

Zurich is just a personal preference because I studied and lived a long time in Switzerland. If you drew a cultural and demographic vector from Berlin through Munich to Zurich, you'd have a pretty good picture of what Zurich is like. If that sounds like a mixed bag, that's because it is. ;-) Even richer, even better working, but also even stuffier. I love it there but that's because many of my friends are there.

What is true, though, is that Switzerland has a better business culture and regulatory/tax environment. People work quite hard, they are very rational and pragmatic in business matters, and the universities there are, unlike the German ones, truly world class. I'd also wager, although I've not (yet?) tried myself, that it will be easier to raise capital from Swiss investors than from Munich-based ones (and Berlin, as someone already mentioned, doesn't really have serious capital floating around).

It's all a wash though, I'm sure that these generalities have marginal impact on whatever you or I do or decide. At the end of the day, sitting in Munich, you're a productive 4h train ride away from Zurich and a 6h train ride from Berlin.

Simple: because everybody already has a good job. Golden handcuffs...

I used to live in Munich and now I live in Berlin. I still miss Munich. But it is easier to find people trying something new in Berlin.

Maybe bureaucracy?

When I think about starting a company in Germany, the amount of paperwork I'd have to file is the first thing that comes to mind.

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