I lived in Russia for the first 27 years of my life (but I've been out for 11 years). The claimed phenomena definitely existed and was widespread back then. I was an odd duck by being ready to openly accept my mistakes / misdoings, and I was not alone, but that was not common.
Besides, my point is that such way of reasoning and inducting from a broken finger towards a whole culture is nothing more than spiteful supremacism.
If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
I realize that's not easy on divisive, emotionally charged topics, but everyone commenting here is required to try.
Replace "Russian" with "Black" and this would be considered a racist post.
The scene is a couchette car in an overnight train between two Russian cities (a very popular mode of transport in Russia). It's late at night, so most people are preparing to sleep or sleeping already, so it is pretty quiet. Except for the two slightly drunk guys in one end of the train, who are engaged in a lively conversation. After a while one woman next to them loses her patience and shouts "you two over there, would you shut up finally? People are trying to sleep here!". To which one of the guys answers, not missing a beat, with innocent indignation in his voice: "And why did you think it's us?!"
That's how this culture works.
The scene is a guy whose knowledge of anything outside his country is lacking. A relatively common occurrence around where he's from.
After being bombarded with all kinds of propaganda for decades he'd easily believe almost anything on the topic. Especially after several months of extreme 24/7 antagonism due to a horrible war.
That's how culture works. Supposedly
As somebody who's spent time on trains there, Russians were nothing but gracious and hospitable.
Trust him more. This anecdote is as old as couchette cars.
Also take a dive into Reddit most popular subreddits[0] - you will find such behaviour en masse and I will wait here for your explanation how Soviets could instill this culture into Americans.
[0] https://old.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/
https://old.reddit.com/r/entitledparents/
https://old.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/
Those three would have more than enough examples of an entitled behaviour.
Besides, caveat venditor is more of an American thing, with most of the world being caveat emptor.
Having said all of that, I don't think robotics and AI is the kind of thing we "move fast and break things".
I think it's true that health and safety are treated very differently there.
The craziest part of the attached link is the quote "it's gone in the wrong direction again".
1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ_PiXLVaJ8 (~45mins)
The second video is more serious but also rather interesting (clips from it became very popular at the beginning of the Russian invasion into Ukraine). It is a lecture from a Finnish University Professor whom spent most of his career in Intelligence specializing in Russian relations and now teaches intelligence and security. He talks extensively about the corruption hierarchies in Russia as well as Putin and Propaganda, well worth a watch (and more recent videos have been released since found on the same channel).
2. https://youtu.be/kF9KretXqJw (~60mins)
Operating under the assumption that the video isn't misrepresenting the cultural aspects of Russia I think we would both be surprised at how "cartoonish" things can be.
The Russian mentality is _really_ hard to understand for a generic westerner. Russia has been lead by a conservative leader for 200-300 years. Lead by an autocratic leader (Tsar) for a good thousand years. The next Tsar will always be from the "Princes" - never a complete outsider.
Trying to change that mindset is as impossible as it would be for the USA to not have a two-party system. Their whole culture and bureaucracy is based on the fact that there is an "us" and a "them". Three or four parties will never happen in the USA.
Also, women participating in the labor-force was encouraged throughout the regime’s existence, until the very end, there was no “Stepford Wives”-like tale East of the Wall. One of my aunts was an industrial crane operator in the ‘80s, I, as a kid, was finding that perfectly normal (I also grew up East of the Wall). Stay-at-home mothers, another traditional thing by definition, was seen as retrograde, “you had to have a job, hence a salary”, everything else was seen as laziness.
And I could continue with countless other examples similar to these.
Also, the US can totally have a multi-party system if they reform their electoral system. [0]
Thus: it'll never happen.
The French kings weren't keen on democracy, and the Russian Czars weren't keen on communism. Yet they still happened.
And how did you determine that it is insightful?
The video starts with the guy confidently saying that Alcatraz is a nickname of a Moscow prison (!!!), apparently having no clue that the Russian name of the game doesn't have anything to do with prisons and the name 'Planet Alcatraz' is given to the English edition of the game. If you have no idea what you talking about -- just make things up, right?
Should I find Manhunt or Postal to be a mirror of American culture? "Interesting perspective", "insightful social commentary"?
And you are aware that he's playing the russian version of the game, right? Translating some bits for the english audience. I'm sure he's perfectly aware what the name of the game is in russian (it's literally in the first shot of the video).
Seems like you watched 5min to just quickly find something to discredit and immediately dismiss it.
> Should I find Manhunt or Postal to be a mirror of American culture? "Interesting perspective", "insightful social commentary"?
Not a "mirror" of a culture, but if you were not already versed in American culture and watched an insightful review of those games pulling on various culture trends which make up those games, I see no reason why it couldn't be an "Interesting perspective" or "insightful social commentary".
'Seems like you watched 5min to just quickly find something to discredit and immediately dismiss it'
That's quite an uncharitable interpretation. You are right about one thing though -- I gave up quite early.
"I see no reason why it couldn't be an "Interesting perspective" or "insightful social commentary""
In the context of judging the American nation as a whole -- of course not.
You have added nothing to the conversation.
Also in what way would this ever be at all related to the context of judging the American nation as anything? The article is about a robot is Moscow and the comment I replied to is discussing if Russian subcultures or culture can seem Cartoonish.
Quit inventing battles to lose.
Why did you inserted 'subcultures' here?
The smsm42 subverted the discussion of the robot fuckup with a russophobic comment specifically saying 'It's a culture-wide thing' and you were replying to the comment saying 'there is no way they are that cartoonish'.
Nowhere subcultures are mentioned except in your comment where you offered a game review as a source of information about Russian culture ('a really interesting perspective on *at least* some aspects of Russian subcultures and their prominence') and partial confirmation of the 'culture-wide thing' comment.
You have made no points worth addressing and contributed nothing to the conversation.
I don't think you can 'address' it in any way except for not doing such things in the future.
The video is good, on topic and highly relevant to this discussion.
Agree, that was an uncharitable offhand sentence. I think it was prompted by your uncharitable criticism of the video -- immediately concluding that he's making shit up (rather that thinking it was a mistake or something else)
>In the context of judging the American nation as a whole -- of course not.
I don't think video is there judge Russian culture as a whole -- and I don't think that's ever useful. It's there to entertain and present (and judge) various cultural _strands_ of it, which someone outside of Russia/Ex-soviet states may not be aware of.
In the context of this thread, grandparent (smsm42) does seem intent to reduce this particular cultural stand to being _the_ Russian culture and all dominating. I disagree with that, but neither this video nor context of the palmetieri2000 post (he wanted to illustrate that it _can_ be that comical) was about that.
Yep, it's only fair.
'nor context of the palmetieri2000 post (he wanted to illustrate that it _can_ be that comical) was about that'
What is 'it' in 'it _can_ be that comical'?
Here I disagree with you -- I interpret 'it can't be that cartoonish' as a reply to 'culture-wide thing' statement. A subculture can be arbitrarily weird, but when a sweeping statement is made about the whole nation it becomes cartoonish.
In this context bringing up a game review is as a valid point as bringing up Manhunt or Postal in a thread about American-wide culture.
And why do you operate under this assumption?
The guy keeps saying '[In Russia] conservatives have always had power.' Was Lenin a conservative? Very few countries undergone such radical changes as Russia.
The one thing he repeats even more is 'infallible Tsar'. Let me tell you a secret -- Putin have ruled for so long because life for ordinary Russians was getting better despite all his fuckups. Now this have changed and we have entered very 'interesting' times.
Lenin ruled for barely 4 years. Since November 1917 till late 1921, when he already had been gravely ill and was largely removed from all power and left as a figurehead. In 1923, he had his third stroke, and his days were numbered. So, compared to overall Russia's history, Lenin's four years have been but a brief episode. Stalin, who replaced him, was a conservative ruler (though of course not the kind of "conservative" that we have now in America, obviously), so were all up to maybe Gorbachev - who ruled for about 6 years overall. As you can see, not being a conservative leader in Russia means a rather short tenure, somehow.
> Now this have changed and we have entered very 'interesting' times.
If you think people in Russia will raise up and overthrow Putin because of the suffering he has inflicted on them due to his insane lust for conquest - don't hold you breath for it. He has much better chance do die as a Tsar (which is what most Russian Tsars did) than to be deposed. Russian people, as a mass, have absolutely zero inclination to overthrow Putin's regime.
The wilderness of Russia should be apparent to everyone nowadays.
I would imagine the place has some shared cultural understandings, generally, but that a big city is going to be much more heterogenous. But maybe I'm thinking too micro scale.
I thought I did, in my comments uptopic. If you expect me to write a doctoral thesis on modern Russian culture, sorry, I am neither qualified nor it is the right place. While I have plenties of anecdotal data, and would be glad to share my experience to the extent I can, systematic treatment of a culture is not something one could do in a random comment on HN. I can name it, at best - Russian Imperial culture, and describe some of its qualities, but anything beyond that will have to wait for somebody who either has a PhD or wants to get one researching Russian culture.
> And what are your pronouns?
None of your business/None of your business.
It's not that I don't believe that Russia has a "culture of power" and that people at the top all share the same ideology, but this is happening everywhere.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumpers_and_splitters
There's definitely something different in Berlin vs New York culture, and me, a person that sees commonalities everywhere, i.e. a lumper, definitely sees a common/dominant culture in each of these places.
On the other side you have splitters that always find a reason to differentiate more.
There's no right and wrong on this discussion, it's subjective in essence, you can always lump or split by your own rules. That is a classification problem.
Darwin talked about it at length, because he was annoyed by splitters denying any kind of classification, making it really hard to make a taxonomy.
If you split too much, every human is an individual, you can't say anything about anything anymore.
If you lump too much, all humans are the same, you can't say anything about anything either.
The sweet spot is somewhere in between, where you can speak about Moscow, vs Berlin, vs New York culture. Because there's definitely something different about these places. And neither say they're all the same, or that you have to look at each individual before making a judgment.
But most people can't agree where exactly this sweet spot is.
Apparently a lot of you dont know the difference between USSR, Russia and Ukraine. Stay safe out there.