Ask HN: Quit a job if you don't fit in the team? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Quit a job if you don't fit in the team?

43 pointssolouncomen44 comments

I've been working at this company for ~4 months, and I feel like an absolute outcast there. I work 3/5 days remotely, and I'm pretty happy when I work by myself—the job is fine. The problem comes with the two days I need to go to the office. I've anxiety the night before, and I feel depressed the day after.

My coworkers have a cliquey vibe, and I feel like the weird introvert who doesn't talk very much. I do talk with people I feel comfortable with, but with this team (I don't know why) I enter quiet mode, and I can't go out of there. It's weird because it's the first time at a job that I don't click with anybody. In previous experiences, I always have had 2 or 3 coworkers which whom I could get along with, make jokes, or share some kind of interest.

Here I don't have anybody to share a problem with. It makes me feel sad, and I'm falling into a depression. I know that we don't go to work to make friends, but I'm experiencing first-hand how difficult it is the lack of support at the workplace.

I thought that waiting some time would make things better, but they are going worse. I'm avoiding going to breakfast with them, to keep away from the weird silences, and I feel like I do them a favour (if I go with them I sit there without saying anything).

What should I do? I'm thinking of quitting, but I'm not sure if I'm being too drastic.

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In established organizations, coworkers have relationships built over years and decades. They have a shared history that spans ups and downs.

Compared to that four months is not very long. Four years isn't very long, when coworkers watched the twin towers in the break room.

That's the general, but your working remote most of the time means there's very little waiting for five oclock time. You're not at most bull-sessoins.

My advice is to work in-office.

And consider seeing a licensed therapist because mental health is a health issue.

It's been a tough couple of years. Good luck.

I second this.

It might not be the solution, but I think the attempt you need to make is just that, get into the office full-time, join breakfast and lunches and whatever else activity is there, and try hard to accept yourself that you're quiet (at the time being).

I've felt like this at times, like I don't belong, felt bad that I'm the weird one (I totally am), but I've forced myself to be there, to participate, not to feel further outcast, and it has helped every time.. I'd go so far as to say that the more disconnected or outcast I've felt, the more I've made a point of being there, even if quiet.

I appreciate this. It takes much mental effort to go through this and almost force yourself to be there knowing you’re falling outside.

In some cases though the chasm remains even more pronounced.

Have you talked to your manager? Maybe start with a question like the following:

  For some reason I don't seem to be connecting with my coworkers as well as I 
  expected. (Give a concrete example.) I feel I would be more productive if 
  we were more cohesive as a team. Do you have any ideas how to solve this?

It obviously depends on your manager. I'm assuming it's somebody who is motivated to help you achieve your best. That's unfortunately not always the case.

p.s., I said "we were more cohesive" to avoid the assumption that it's just your fault. It sounds like a team dynamics issue.

I agree that this is absolutely your manager's problem to fix, but going to them is risky. If you've got a bad manager on your hands, they may just take it to mean you should be fired, and that will solve the problem.

Yes, that happens unfortunately. You have to make a choice whether you trust that person, just like any colleague. :/

I've been in your shoes. My solution, which may not work for everyone, was to force myself to talk with coworkers a little bit a day. When they talked about something they've done, like over the weekend or whatever, I asked a follow-up question.

At first it all felt really phony because, to be honest, I don't care too much what other people do. However, eventually, it became somewhat natural and I began to care about the other person (even if their hobbies may not jibe with mine). And eventually I would begin comfortable sharing my ideas and issues.

This also works for making friends outside of work, once you figure out how to meet up with them in person.

*edit: fixing tenses

Here's an alternative explanation. May be totally bonkers - you have been warned. :)

Perhaps the building itself is affecting you?

After years of trying to figure out some immediate family health issues, I eventually found out that my home office had huge amounts of hidden mold behind the walls. One of the downstream health effects of that is that I'm now overly sensitive to... stuff. There now are buildings, stores, corners of stores that I can't think or talk well in. I start forgetting words right away and conversation is hard. And through this I've met quite a few other people that are also hypersensitive to things and places, though with different symptoms than mine. Others I know get sad, or angry, or believe people don't like them, when in places that don't do them well.

This seems to have a lot of similarities: There's a place that your body doesn't want to go to beforehand. It takes a day and some to recover after being there. You feel like people don't like there. You feel like you have a hard time talking there. You been having increasing depression since you started going there.

Not sure how you would test this theory out. The building problem doesn't have to necessarily be mold. Could be something else that doesn't do you well.

Given that you have had good relationships with coworkers before, and these kinds of thought patterns are not your norm, I'd consider it most likely that the problem is not you.

If you are full of dread about going every time, and getting increasingly depressed, GTFO.

Good luck!

Mostly curious, is the company hiring a lot of new staff? You might find that as more people join, you'll build a sense of camaraderie with the new staff.

I noticed that I felt a bit alone working at a game studio with a lot of GenX-ers, but once a bunch of fellow GameCube-pilled millennials got hired on alongside me things felt more comfortable.

Yes, the company has hired two engineers apart from me, and they seem more integrated than I am (one of them was hired a month after I started). Next week, a new hire will begin as well. We are all in the same age range: 27 to 39 years old.

I normally start to click with people after 1 or 2 months in the job. I'm worried because 4 months have passed by, and I have zero connections. However, as I said, the job is enjoyable so far.

I might need to check my mental health, but I wasn't depressed before starting here. Last year I was in another position, and I was content during that 3-month short contract and didn't have any problems to bond with coworkers.

I've been in perhaps a similar situation. I was part of a great, cohesive team. During a re-org the team was merged with another team that had built a similar product.

I found myself working with a person who had the technical chops and the socials chops, but was also a perfectionist and found no limit to the nits he was willing to pick. Nothing got a LGTM from him and while pushing team members to improve themselves is admirable, it cannot be done by loading critique onto everything they do.

The problem was that he wasn't a jerk about it. I ended up getting killed by kindness and perfectionism and found a job elsewhere. The lesson I learned was to set a realist bar for success, and never set an impossibly high bar for other people. Doing so decreases morale faster than it improves performance.

My point is that not clicking with a team or even a team member is a perfectly reasonable reason to find another job. If you're miserable despite your reasonable effort then it's time to move on. You don't have to apply heroic effort in order to make things work.

You sound like an introvert. Nothing wrong with that. Im an introvert too.

As a general rule, and so long as you're not actively making a severe ass of your presence (you're not - you'd know - you'd have to be trying to do it), consider that the less you care about what other people think socially the more those same people will tend to like you. A quick-and-dirty definition of "Cool" is; Egocentric and Aloof. Self concerned and self interested in short. If you can find a way to adopt that kind of mindset you will notice that gang no longer has any power over your feelings at all. They're really just a bunch of idiots that you don't enjoy spending your valuable time and attention on.

These people have "insecurities" too - it's why they're cliquey in the first place. You're not dealing with a pack of lions here. You're dealing with a pack of hamsters who find strength in numbers.

Enjoy your 3 remote days and gracefully tolerate the 2 in office days. Do your job well as your first (and second) priority. Ask direct questions related to your job via chat or email or whatever. Work "remotely" at the office if that works for you. Same stuff, just down the hall from the coworkers.

Give it 30 days and if it turns around then you won. If you stop caring (you just might) then thats fine too. Alternatively, if in 30 days you still feel the same then it's time to move on.

Ive been in dev shops like this and it wasn't my fault. It's not yours either. Sometimes you just find a group of nasty people and thats how it is. More than likely though, the situation just needs more time to develop.

In the mean time: * Do your job well * DO YOUR JOB WELL * Acknowledge that since you're doing your job well its not your problem * Be open to the situation changing one day with a simple "hey..." from a coworker (the whole world or at least your view of it can change in one "hey...") * Be ready to move in the next 30-45 days if the plan fails

Good luck - you got this!

The problem comes with the two days I need to go to the office. I've anxiety the night before, and I feel depressed the day after.

From my experience you are way past the need to take actions as those are strong signals from your body you gota get the hell out. You did well to wait. It didnt work: your body is still sounding alarms like firemen rushing downtown.

Dont forget that someone may be responsible for your state and playing with you very subtlely to dig you a grave here. Listen to you, do you feel this is the sound of a person "who doesnt go along well with some group"? We all dont go along well with some group everyday and still sleep at night. You included. No, something's off. Listen to your body, it will save your life, thats what those signals are for.

Are you depressive? If you are depressed, you may find yourself less engaged and less motivated. You may be coming off as “standoff-ish” to your coworkers. Their reaction then feeds into your depression and you end up in a bad depressive feedback loop.

Or maybe not, just asking.

I started motivated, became sad after a couple of months, and now I’m struggling mentally (it’s starting to affect my performance).

They do see me probably as “standoff-ish”. However, I have tried to fake my attitude to look more engaged or positive, but eventually I feel disconnected, and I fall back into a depressive status.

It bothers me because they have been nice with me, and there is nothing wrong with them as a team. The fact that they are good people, makes me feel even worse.

So depression is not a matter of mood or motivation; it's a medical problem that calls for treatment.

If you're just sad and anxious because you don't get along well with folks at work, that's probably not a medical problem. Still, if it's bad and getting worse, you probably want to be sure, just in case. Talk to a healthcare provider to get some help deciding if it's a serious problem, or if it's just that you don't like your situation.

You might not be doing anything wrong at all. There's no reason to think you're going to get along well with every person or team that you meet.

They might not be doing anything wrong, either. Sometimes people just don't get along. For example, I can think of a couple of people that I have great respect for, but that I don't want to share a room with. Not because they're doing anything wrong, and not because I am; we just rub each other the wrong way.

Do your due diligence to make sure you don't have some serious health condition developing. Endure the situation because it might get better, until you're pretty sure that it won't. If you don't get past it, and it seems like it might be bad for you, look for another job.

You don't have to get along with everyone. You don't have to stay in a job that's not good for you.

as you described, it seems the teammates are nice, but you still feel isolated somehow, unmotivated, stressed working in office, it is not from work pressure, not from conflicts with coworker. talking to a therapist will be a help... a therapist could validate your feeling/thinking, give some good suggestions, evaluation for medication if needed... have you talked to family/friend? saw some in the thread suggests going to office daily, that may not help and could make it worse... hope you feel better soon...

I was in the same situation. During my ‘welcome’ lunch, not a single member spoke to me or showed any interest. Find another job that suits you. Mental anguish isn’t worth it.

I dont understand. What did they do? Just eat lunch in the same table as you and nobody said a word?

They most likely didn't care to talk to zmcartor and just chatted with their other coworkers, leaving them to feel alone. It sucks when it happens.

They sat there and stared out the window, or played on their phone. Very strange group that didn’t make eye contact or carry a conversation when I tried to talk with them.

heh. You should've gone all out Mr. Bean on them.

> I'm avoiding going to breakfast with them, to keep away from the weird silences, and I feel like I do them a favour

This is a critical flaw in thinking.

You are NOT a mind reader you have no idea what their opinion of you is, or what they are thinking.

You are judging a situation you do not fully understand[0] and it is causing anxiety because you are trying to fix a problem that isn't there.

I think you have it backwards. You are depressed and it is causing strain at work. Not the other way around.

Why would a team open up to someone who is sullen and won't even grab breakfast and coffee in the morning? They are INVITING YOU to morning coffee. How much more welcoming do you want them to be? What more can they do for you?

I recommend a therapist and CBT to control the anxiety you are feeling. [1]

Following up: I hear it over and over again. Both of my siblings went onto mild anti-anxiety medication and it made them into a new person. Same with some of my close personal friends. That constant buzzing in the back of your brain wears you out.

0: To be clear, this covers basically every social interaction and situation anyone encounters.

1: I read a book recently called "Positive Intelligence" that I liked quite a lot, that is a sort-of mix between CBT, meditation, and stoicism. I found it helpful in realizing that when you judge a situation, you really only understand a tiny fraction of what is actually happening, and projecting your own shit onto it does not help. And at the end of the day: If they end up actually just being jerks... then screw 'em.

Sounds like you're unhappy there. Best move it to start interviewing to find a place with a better fit, and when you find it, go.

At a previous job I was a developer attached to a non-technical business unit. They were an awesome group, none the less I felt like an outcast and it ultimately led to burnout.

Start interviewing elsewhere. Just seeing new opportunities is often enough to provide some relief and sense of perspective.

if the people at your work, or the job itself, are bumming you out, you should get a new job.

in my experience this sort of thing is rarely fixed, even if attempts are made to fix it. (sometimes the fixes are worse than the problem.)

they will try to make you stay because leaving after such a short stint makes them look bad, but if you stay and then things don't work out (for the reasons you have already identified), it's you who will look bad, even if you wanted to leave in the first place.

seeing that this bad look could damage your career, you are correct in feeling anxiety. you should leave and get a new job before said anxiety turns into regret.

I am in EXACTLY the same situation as you.

New job of a few months outcast feeling.

The trick is to figure out if it's your coworkers or your own mind or even a little of both.

There are malicious coworkers that will work to undermine you.

There's awkward coworkers who will seem like theyre dicks but are just awkward.

Then your mind is not a reliable narrator either and can interpret People's behavior inaccurately.

All of these things are possible and there's no real way to know for sure what's accurate.

So all you can do is either work hard and do your best everyday or find a new gig.

There's no objective answer here I don't think because not only do we as your audience not know the context I don't think your mind fully knows the context.

My solution at the moment is to try my hardest and be polite and nice and act excited to be there and take it one day at a time. I also document everything I do in Jira tickets in detail. Ask many questions in Slack so it's documented. If that's not good enough I'll get fired but everything is documented so if any higher ups look into their turnover it will be clear that they're firing people who didn't deserve it.

I think that's all you can really do.

If the mountain wouldn't come to Mohammed, Mohammed had to go to the mountain. You can't expect your colleagues to come to you, you have to go to them. If there are weird silences, why don't you break them by striking up a conversation? It just requires someone to say something and then others will join in. Bake some homemade cookies and hand them out. Everyone likes cookies.

This is so relatable. I've been there and I'm really sorry you're going through this.

Is there something about you, something you like, that you could share with them? You're trying to enter their world, that can be tough. Can you bring them into yours? I know, for an introvert, that's a big ask. But we introverts tend to like a lot of things!

For example, I read tarot and do a bit of astrology. You'd be surprised how many people wanted a reading when I offered them, even one woman that I KNEW did not like me. People also know I see every big movie that comes out opening weekend. So that gives them something to me about, because they know I'm passionate about those things. On the flip side, one of my coworkers is teaching me about dnd. There must be something you do or have as a hobby or are interested in that could be a good conversation starter!

But it does take time, unfortunately. Hang in there.

You should probably do what makes you happy to be honest. If you really don't get on with the team and you feel depressed maybe this job isn't right for you and not worth the effort trying to make it work as others here have suggested...

You seem like a slightly more normal version of me. I'm fairly sure I have aspergers so being the weirdo in the office is kinda my thing. I've never fit in anywhere I work so I can relate to this quite a bit. If the company is large enough I'll often find a another weirdo that I'll get on with, but at smaller places that doesn't usually happen.

I guess the only thing I don't relate to is caring about it. Sometimes I can feel lonely, but I guess that's not the issue in your case because you're not feeling like this when you're working from home. That suggests this probably more to do with feeling like an outsider than a need for social interaction. I'm not sure how you would solve that.

You can try to make friends with people as some people here have suggested but that doesn't mean you'll necessarily fit in - at least in my experience. In my case trying to talk to people to make friends would just solidify my position as an outsider if anything as I wouldn't be accepted either way.

I think you have two choices: Either you try to understand why you care about being an outsider and learn to deal with it or find a different job - that's assuming there's really no one in your office you think you'll be able to get on with. I'm not sure you can force friendships regardless of how much you work on social skills. You can definitely fake them, but if feeling like an outsider is the problem here simulating a personality that people will accept probably won't make you feel any better.

All that said, I'm probably the least qualified person in this thread to answer this question so maybe don't listen to me. =) Hope you find some answers here though.

Honestly, I've found the best way to build camaraderie is getting drunk with your teammates, but YMMV on that way. Pretty much every team I've ever worked in, until we go out and have dinner and drinks, it's all-business, all the time.

Some folks are kind and open up about their lives, very inclusive, but they won't be the ones who make you feel the way you do.

You're an engineer. Half of the people in this industry have social issues or aren't exactly extroverted. They've met people like you before, and they'll know it just takes a bit longer.

Finally, it's okay. People are different. Give it a few more months, make a concerted effort to be more sociable (and maybe bring it up with your manager, they should organise something - if they don't, get out of there). If it doesn't work, find something else. You're hot shit right now.

Here is what I will say. If you always leave when you feel this way you'll never get better. I used to be you, I was always awkward and felt awkward around my co-workers. For me this wasn't just at work this was in every aspect of my life, I was very anxious all the time. It was an underlying insecurity that I hadn't dealt with yet.

It took me years to overcome the anxiety and feeling of awkwardness but it's because I didn't understand why I was feeling that way.

Here is what I'll say as some closing advice. No one else thinks you're weird, or awkward or an outcast. You do. They think you're the new guy and it's just going to take some time to break that barrier. Running away is not going to fix it.

the op explicitly states that they feel like an outcast in that specific workplace, not that they suffer from generalized social anxiety.

i am happy to hear that you have overcome your generalized social anxiety. i caution you against suggesting that someone stay in an apparently toxic workplace environment and chalk the problems up to flaws in their own character. you may be steering them down a path that could result in irreversible damage to their livelihood.

It's hard to get used to a new situation, build relationships, etc. 2 days a week. Time tends to solve those things. I don't think I'd have connected well with all my favorite coworkers from the past if I'd been working from home most of the time.

Yes but only if you have another job lined up. Most jobs have office politics, and love/hate it but you need to fit in.

Highly recommend trying a toastmasters course, where you can learn some extrovert skillsets.

As others have said, I would recommend going to therapy. But also, if you need to, quit. It might take a while to fix this issue but you don't need to be in continued pain while you're in it. This is a you problem. You're projecting how they perceive you based on your own insecurities instead of reality.

It's a cognitive distortion. And unfortunately, if it's cropping up here it probably has cropped up before and will continue to crop up elsewhere.

It took me a couple years in therapy and examining the same distortion cropping up in several different ways for it to sink in. But once I did - it changed how I perceive people.

>I feel like the weird introvert

This is probably not the first time you've felt that way. Maybe in high school you were in class and the loud talkative kids in class made jokes about you probably being a school shooter or whatever.

Everybody has things they are insecure about. For me, it was feeling like people thought of me as a fat "neckbeard" nerd when I entered some social situations after years of seeing that stereotype mocked on the internet. The go to joke now for this archetype with Gen Z is "Discord mod" which I never wanted to be perceived as.

For some, they might enter some situations feeling like people think they're a dumb hick because they have a slight accent. Or "These guys aren't taking me seriously, because I am a woman."

The trouble is - sometimes it's true, right? Some workplaces are cliquey and toxic. Some people do think people with southern accents are less intelligent. So you have to look at reality as your source. Look for evidence. You've furnished no evidence they think that way of you. So where is this feeling coming from and why is it getting worse?

It's not just that you feel like that, it's that you ruminate on it. But you've ruminated on it, it has magnified in your mind, and now you're losing sleep over it the night before. This can be a form of OCD. But I've had the experience with the right medication and talk therapy of improving. It's hard work but worth doing because distortions like this absolutely end up in scenarios like "I have to quit my job" and it gets to the point where it seriously starts affecting your life.

I hope this helped. Just some of the stuff you've described resonated with me.

This sounds like a tough position to be in. I once left a position for reasons other than advancement and in retrospect I think I delayed personal growth by not leaning into those reasons and doing the work to change myself.

This may not be similar to your situation. I wouldn't advocate anyone remain in a position causing themselves physical or psychological harm. Wishing you well in this decision.

You should find a 100% remote job. If other people are there full time, but you're only there 0-2 days a week, you're never going to be that close with them. You said you're happy when you're at home, but going into the office makes you anxious. So you shouldn't have an issue working at home full time.

Try going into the office every day.

Try to get to know them in one on ones. If that doesn't work out, then maybe start looking for something else. But first try that. Sometimes all it takes is to find one common interest and suddenly you like talking to them. Best of luck.

Your post describes exactly what I have been through. For me, it went away when I built more confidence and got a few friends.

You took classes to build up your self-esteem, made some friends at work and/or outside of work, then you... felt better?

How did you make the friends at work, if they were at work? Did you just keep talking at them until they felt forced to respond?

i'm generally in the 'quit' camp.

i've been in this type of situation more than once -- i've job-hopped a lot, done a lot of contracts, etc. -- and i am _not_ in that situation right now. praise all that is holy.

i currently dislike my job, but it's more fit, product, and managers, etc. -- it is definitely _not_ because I don't get along with the various nice people I often interact with - who are really sources of joy every day (def not all of them). (i just watched some of a steve kerr interview on youtube and he talks a lot about warrior culture and gave this anecdote about Pop and his just wanting to have a good day, etc.)

that situation -- the one you are in, one that I have experienced multiple times -- is brutal.

my guess is that you could do a million things that might make it slightly less worse over the coming months and years, and you'll end up with a heart attack and depression and all sorts of other niceties.

sometimes a shit team/people/culture/company is just that -- and you _may_ need to get out.

main question i would have is, how do you avoid this happening at the next place? you probably would _not_ be that unlucky, but i'm sure it has happened to others.

i think i have actually landed in this situation after, during the interview process, people told me how _awesome_ everyone was, how awesome the company and culture and whatever was, and then you find out it's all rather shit. like some bad holacracy dream -- everyone acting happy, but is really ready to kill themselves.

some of them might actually have believed it -- and i have almost certainly sold prospects on the awesomeness of our company/team/culture when i knew better. why? i dunno. stupid/evil fucking human psychology prob. "Let's see if you can convert this stupid mf -- I'm not going to suffer alone -- we need bodies -- and he prob doesn't really care -- he's here b/c he needs a job, not a good or ideal job."

start interviewing, get out. you can keep an open mind about staying, maybe make an effort to break things open a bit, change things up, maybe like others have suggested - going to the office more, etc. but def start leaving.

also, i hear hybrid work can burn people out faster than full on-site or full remote. so, if you're not required to be there, don't be. or ask for a couple of full-remote weeks, then ask for one more, then give your notice.

> I'm falling into a depression.

You should seek mental health services.

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