Archive.org Seeks Summary Judgment in Lawsuit Filed by Publishing Companies
blog.archive.org
blog.archive.org
(713 points, 208 comments)
They were already contracting with other libraries to increase the amount of out-of-circulation copies they could lend, and with 90,000 libraries closed they assumed removing any restrictions would still keep them well under the amount of out-of-circulation copies available.
And they were likely right, if "The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe" only had 888 lends at most a few books would reach anywhere near the total out-of-circulation copies. It makes the publishers argument look less like "we were robbed" and more like "we should have made even more cash off the pandemic."
Ultimately the lesson of Aereo is that it is incredibly difficult to predict court rulings when in anything close to a gray area. Aereo had a viable case after the Fox v. Cablevision precedent, but ultimately lost.
I could go up to my local library with a dump truck and load it up with books if I wanted to, I'm not making copies, so I'm not violating copyright, period. Copyright protects the publisher's ability to proliferate the stock of books, not to police the use of existing stock.
- lending is limited to the original bought copies (a library cannot create more copies of a book for further lending)
- digital lending requires sending the data to another device creating a copy
- digital lending has near-zero marginal cost (specially at scale)
- digital borrowing has near-zero marginal cost (no library membership, single click borrowing for some minutes or some hours with single click return)
IMHO I think Archive is legally in the right and it is only due to the previous circumstances, Archive.org collaborating with _a lot_ of libraries, and the tension between the older/traditional socialist/communal lending practice vs newer/contemporary private property laws that allows this conflict to emerge.
Now, as far as I understand, it happened that no book was likely borrowed more times than the number of physical copies held by archive.org + the libraries they had partenere with. But the process they normally had in place to prevent this was explicitly decided to be ignored during the pandemic.
Does it matter what they might have done under different circumstances?
Even if they weren't checking the limits, if they got lucky and never exceeded the number of copies they had licenses to share, then how did they infringe anyone's copyright?
where is this stated
This is not their argument. They previously had libraries offer copies of books, but during the time of crisis they decided to act quickly to repace the 650 million books now out-of-circulation. Only around a hundred libraries signed on on support.
I can understand the argument as for why the IA shouldn't have done this, but agree with the IA that in these unique circumstances it should be fair use. Either way, the lawsuit is about ending the entire CDL policy, not the short term change.
From the internet archive I can now search through and read 60-year-old self-published technical manuals, obscure Hungarian journal papers, historical archival material only kept in one French museum, soviet math and physics textbooks, etc. which is difficult or expensive to find physical copies of, and not being published and distributed anymore.
Even better, people can use those links as sources in their own work (e.g. in Wikipedia articles) and anyone else interested can follow-up with original sources instead of just taking things on faith because the references are too much bother to track down.
All of this material from the past ~century is otherwise locked away by copyright law even though nobody was making any money from it.
If lending had exceeded the number of available purchased/physical copies, then it wouldn't be "working around", it would be "violating" copyright law. I agree with you that copyright law is horribly broken as-is, but I think it's irresponsible of the Internet Archive to play so fast and loose with it. A monetary judgment against them could be devastating to their effort to preserve history.
I don’t think that they did. But for the sake of discussion, I also don’t think it’s irresponsible. If copyright law is horribly broken (I agree), the most likely remedy is in court. You can’t get to that remedy with a case which has a reasonable chance of success if you don’t take that chance.
I really just cannot agree with that. IA shouldn't be broadly challenging copyright law; at most they should be challenging laws that interfere with their primary mission.
That's what I think too. Despite what the HN hivemind wants to think, this was a crystal clear act of piracy and the Internet Archive will suffer for it. I have no idea what they were thinking. They would need to demonstrate they had a strict license counting system in place where libraries put in what they had and the system counted how much it borrowed which clearly they didn't have , they just said "go ahead and borrow". Say, they borrowed out 10 copies of a work at a time, this would be allowed if they had 10 licenses of it and if they can't show they had it which I bet dollars to doughnuts they didn't then they will be forced to damages for each of those. I do not even know where the damages will stop. This will be a terrible massacre.
Dura lex, sed lex!
The judge will throw out the argument "there was in theory this many copies or even more at closed libraries" -- just because it is true, the law simply doesn't allow for this.
I only wish the best for IA but they completely botched this. I can't understand how, they have good lawyers.
Hell, https://controlleddigitallending.org/ only dares to say
> When CDL is appropriately tailored to reflect print book market conditions and controls are properly implemented, CDL may be permissible under existing copyright law.
It does not say "it is".
Ps. if you are downvoting for this, where am I wrong? Where is this allowed in the Berne Convention or US Code 17? What do you think applies here if not https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/108 ?
> Except as otherwise provided in this title and notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, it is not an infringement of copyright for a library or archives, or any of its employees acting within the scope of their employment, to reproduce no more than one copy or phonorecord of a work,
No more than one copy. Go ahead, show me the carve out for, I dunno, inaccessible works or something that overrides this. This is the law, your preferences -- which are the same as mine which loves the Internet Archive and doesn't much book publishers -- have zero relevance here. You downvote because you don't like what I say or think that I want harm for the IA and it's not true -- but they will suffer for this. How can you not see this?
The IA's argument is that it's covered under section 107 as "fair use" as it's a nonprofit educational act with seemingly no negative effect on the value of the work.
You can disagree but you're tone is that you're absolutely right and anyone who doubts it is denying reality.
They already do have such a system. If they "have" multiple copies of a book edition, then the "borrow" period is 14 days. If they have only one copy, then it's only one hour, so that the book remains more available to others.
This means that they are aware of how many "licences" they hold and reference count the accesses to each edition against that figure.
Whether they indeed bypassed that system for the NEL and provably allowed excessive accesses being their holdings, well, that's for the court to hear.
Pretty sure this summary judgment openly admits they did.
> The Internet Archive’s belief that the NEL’s loaned copies would be fewer than the number of existing non-circulating physical copies proved to be correct.
So the Internet Archive claim it didn't, though it's not providing complete and concrete proof that no title went over the limit. Then again, it's on the prosecution to demonstrate that they actually did.
I wasn't aware that the IA had any naval vessels.
But wouldn't it be up to the claimant to show this actually happened? So far I have seen no credible evidence for this claim.
I suspect that the "accidentally" should be heavily qualified. Just because Internet Archive said they were going to let anyone freely borrow books (And it never was "as much as they wanted"; there were borrowing limits on each user, enforced by strong DRM) doesn't make that true in a literal sense. The whole thing was always under their control, and they would've had the stats telling them how much each book was being borrowed.
It’s almost a useless motion, but because it has worked sometimes, your lawyer would be stupid to not try it.
In other words, an article saying that a party requested summary judgment doesn’t really mean anything. I’m almost certain the other party filed one as well.
In the US, summary judgment is a procedure used in civil cases, typically one party seeking money from the other. Ineffective assistance of counsel is a criminal concept.
It's more appropriate when the dispute can be decided on purely legal grounds that don't need a juries input.
Whereas if the Internet Archive suspected what they were being accused of wasn't legal, summary judgement wouldn't be appropriate, and they might want to go to trial to try to prove their case that they aren't actually doing what they're being accused of?
There is no point in a summary judgement in a "he said she said" or when there is conflicting evidence.
> Summary judgment motions are filed in fewer cases than the bench and bar might expect. They are filed in approximately 13.7% of cases, with this proportion varying between 9.7% and 22% depending on the district. Thus, summary judgment motions are not filed in every case in the federal courts, as it sometimes seems to judges and lawyers
[1] https://iaals.du.edu/sites/default/files/documents/publicati...
EDIT: Correction, study published in 2018 of cases closed in 2015. Not sure where 2006 came from....
Once you filter out the majority of legal cases that accrue, say, less than a thousand total billable hours, I imagine filing summary judgements in these "serious" cases is quite common.
A jury trial determines facts, but a bench trial can still occur.The difference between a bench trail is things like discovery, which can be enormously expensive.
There's almost no-one else who has an incentive to archive that kind of information, if there isn't an economic incentive. And as soon as those primary sources go bankrupt, there's no-one to keep that data available.
So I realize that this is a thorn to publishers, but I think that the interests of humanity far outweigh their personal financial incentives.
I applaud all those, who put themselves into the line of fire of those who just care about themselves, rather than the goal to preseve the wealth of human knowledge. So thank you, to all of those who do, even in light of all the difficulties it might cause in your lives.
Edit: I see these libraries similar to the library of Alexandria, which burnt down around 48 bc. People nowadays have the ability to preserve that knowledge, with equipment that isn't unattainable to the general public (especially with distributed storage). Not everyone, but a huge number of people can now prevent the next burning down of the biggest library in the world. And I think that's a great thing.
- Wikimedia (“a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge”): lawful – religious copyright law adherence, thorough fair use rationales; proactively removes Het Achterhuis from Wikisource over DMCA "actual knowledge" of it being copyrighted in the US through an obscure series of laws[1]
- Internet Archive (“Universal Access to All Knowledge”): neutral – gets archival exemption for bypassing copy protection added to the DMCA;[2][3] making archived items publicly available lies in a grey area
- Sci-Hub (“free and unrestricted access to all scientific knowledge”): chaotic – just pirate all the paywalled articles
[1] https://diff.wikimedia.org/2016/02/10/anne-frank-diary-remov...
[2] https://archive.org/about/dmca.php
[3] https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2010/07/27/2010-18...
Similar to Wikipedia/Wikimedia, in my opinion they need support.
Why I love archive.org? I downloaded lots of old manuals from ancient computers for personal pleasure. Thank you archive.org!
The WMF has a 9 figure surplus, they have far more money then they can use (despite the begging banners implying they're on the brink). The Internet Archive is a far more useful donation.
It's really kind of pathetic, all the mechanisms the system has created to extract wealth from students and their parents. If you wanted to create evidence for the argument that investment capitalism is essentially parasitic, the whole 'higher education' program we've got in the USA could well be Exhibit A (Exhibit B being the health care program).
I found the previous edition for cheap on Amazon, and looked up answers to the work sections on some cheating sites. I didn't do it for the answers, though; I did it to reverse-engineer the new question numbers. As in, the only difference between a $40 book and a $250 book was that the publisher had randomized the question order in the work sections.
The worst one by far was one I could only find in Mandarin. Google Translate helped a ton, but it was missing about half of the questions, so I ended up photocopying part of a classmate's textbook to get them. This actually landed me in the Dean's office; apparently our library had a strict policy prohibiting the photocopying of textbooks. Luckily the dean was understanding, but I'll never forget the lesson: capitalism is a fucking bitch sometimes, and to play clean you have to be willing to get dirty.
Actual educators probably hate this shit almost as much as students do. Unauthorized learning should be not a punishable offense. I assume the professors who insist on the newest editions of textbooks are either getting kickbacks (certainly true when they wrote the book) or they were forced to by the school's policy and someone higher up is getting paid by publishers.
Or maybe for logistical reasons? The latest edition will of course be easily available (though expensive). Older editions might not be easy to come by. And allowing any old edition would mean it wouldn't be possible to assign exercises from the book, since the might differ in subtle ways, or just have a different order. While these problems aren't insurmountable, they would make things much more difficult.
Making students pay a high tuition fee and then still making them buy additional material needed for the course is insane. It really doesn't have to be this way.
I don't think I ever was assigned to answer questions from a published textbook for credit at university. If we had such question-based assignments, the questions were written by the lecturer to fit the course material.
We were recommended to get certain books, but they were never required to complete the course.
Copyright law itself is a prime example of how allowing greed to go unchecked is hurting us all. It started out as a great idea, but it's been perverted into something that does the literal opposite of what it was put in place to accomplish. Copyright law today hurts creators, and impedes innovation and the creation of new creative works while heavily and increasingly restricting the public's access to existing works.
Sadly our politicians are even less willing to reform copyright law than they are to place limits on the greed that's allowed to hurt us collectively in the higher education system. At least students today are getting ineffectual lip service about student loan forgiveness.
Publishers are trying to use ebooks to accomplish their long standing goal of collecting revenue each time a book is lent by a library. They have tried to get this added to copyright law for physical books by Congress multiple times and have failed.
Large publishers refuse to sell libraries ebooks that can be lent out over and over, preferring instead to license ebooks with a limited number of lends or a fee per lend.
With CDL, libraries scan their own physical books, remove those books from circulation, and lend that digital copy to one user (per book they own that is not circulating.)
While publishers like to claim that CDL is an obvious copyright violation, it is untested legal ground as to whether CDL qualifies as fair use or not.
To me, the ideal outcome is that courts uphold CDL as fair use, but holds the IA responsible for playing fast and loose with the NEL program.
One other thing to note is that not all publishers are like the big 4-5. Many mid level and smaller publishers will sell libraries perpetual single use or sim use copies, sometimes after an embargo period.
>In those unique circumstances, the Internet Archive reasoned that the technical controls limiting the number of concurrent lends to the number of non-circulating copies Internet Archive or its partner libraries had on hand was not necessary. Id. ¶ 71. Given the massive number of books sitting idle on library shelves, doing so would not increase the number of copies of books in circulation above the number of copies libraries had bought and paid for. Id. ¶¶ 92–95. The Internet Archive still imposed the full array of other protections—lending books for limited periods, using DRM software to protect the books from being kept outside that loan period, and so on. Id. ¶¶ 34–35. And under those unique circumstances, lending books in that way was fair use. As with CDL, analysis of the data reflects that the publishers did not actually lose out on any revenues as a result of the NEL.
https://www.dissentmagazine.org/online_articles/citizen-coup...
It absolutely is.
I hope the board will step down after they inevitably lose this case badly.
All webpages is in my nas. keep them forever.
If you have not used the system, spend some time and discover the gems that are included in its collection. https://archive.org Offer suggestions and get involved.
On July 15th I attended the Archive Open House and spoke with Brewster about the ambitious plans through the coming year and the next few decades. There is a lot that needs to be done.
The Archive needs your moral, political, and monetary support. To donate: https://archive.org/donate .
Tell HN: Internet Archive is facing a Big 4 Publishers lawsuit - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32141358 - July 2022 (209 comments)
Activists rally to save Internet Archive as lawsuit threatens site (2020) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31703394 - June 2022 (32 comments)
Help preserve the internet with Archiveteam's warrior - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30524842 - March 2022 (51 comments)
Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23998115 - July 2020 (348 comments)
My thoughts in response to the lawsuit against the Internet Archive - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23931183 - July 2020 (232 comments)
EFF and heavyweight legal team will defend Internet Archive against publishers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23691297 - June 2020 (263 comments)
Activists rally to save Internet Archive as lawsuit threatens site - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23485182 - June 2020 (393 comments)
Lawsuit over online book lending could bankrupt Internet Archive - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23391662 - June 2020 (260 comments)
Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23379775 - June 2020 (346 comments)
Internet Archive responds: Why we released the National Emergency Library - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22731472 - March 2020 (145 comments)
Internet Archive’s National Emergency Library Harms Authors - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22716923 - March 2020 (48 comments)
LeVe the Internet Archive alone.
Sincerely,
Everyone
How so? Can you explain?
Are libraries, too, "objectively wrong” in that analysis?
cheers
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/07/14/cucd-j14.html
Libraries can rent books they’ve purchased. Generally they can’t fire up the photocopier and make copies of books they’ve purchased.
When a library buys a physical book, they can loan that copy out to patrons. They own the physical book.
For over ten years now, libraries have taken a single physical book, scanned it and removed the book from circulation, and lent out a single ebook. This has been a common practice founded on an interpretation of fair use laws, which allow format shifting (recording a vhs to DVD, for example) and lending, and also copyright laws which explicitly mention the legality of digitizing books for accessibility reasons, to serve the visually impaired.
This "one physical book in storage equals one ebook" lending is the "controlled digital lending" the archive does, and is the issue at stake in this suit. Publishers argue that libraries should not be allowed to lend any ebook except those which they set a specific lending limit to- charging the library a fee every X number of checkouts or every X number of months.
This is obviously not how lending physical books works- the library can buy a hardcover and loan it out to patrons, repairing the spine and binding over and over, eventually moving it to a special collection for viewing on site when it's hundreds of years old and can't be handled.
As a seperate, and legally shaker issue, the internet archive created the "national emergency library" during the pandemic. The logic here was that nearly every library in the country was closed, there were within those libraries physical copies of these books that weren't being lent out, and so the same concept as controlled digital lending could apply. This move by the archive was signed onto and supported by thousands of libraries around the country, who agreed that their uncirculated physical copies could stand in for the extra copies checked out of the archives emergency library.
It's important to note the archive does not loan any book published in the last five years, period. This is a self imposed limitation that your neighborhood library does not work under, but it means that the "lost sales" publishers allege were not of new books. Nobody ever got screwed out of bestseller status because too many library patrons read their book, and that goes doubly so in this case.
All that said, the issue isn't whether the internet archive messed up with it's national emergency library. It's whether the whole concept of loaning a book is limited to printed copies, and thus ebooks must be repurchased by libraries ad nauseum-- or if libraries can keep a physical copy in a storage room and loan out a digital copy one at a time, exactly as they do now.
Bottom line, our libraries (and especially their ebook collections) will be much poorer if this decision goes to publishers.
so this is yet another attempt at digital feudalism, where you bought something, but must pay the supplier a subscribtion or a cut forever?
This makes more sense for real-world libraries (where books are physical objects with manufacturing costs) but this doesn’t really translate to digital files.
During the pandemic, when real-world libraries were shut, the Internet Archive took it upon themselves to give away an unlimited number of copyrighted works. Libraries are a net public good to society, and unexpectedly we found ourselves without them. The Internet Archive was uniquely positioned to share knowledge and educational materials with the world, free of charge, at a time when many people had no other access to them.
The publishers would rather rent them a digital copy for a lot of money, that is either time-limited or has a cap on the total number of times it can be checked out before the Archive would have to pay again.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_copyright
http://www.dklevine.com/general/intellectual/againstfinal.ht...
Casting aspersions with the land-mine word "piracy" does not increase the intellectual level of the discussion, nor is it even accurate here IMO.
At any rate, "changing the rules" can't be a blanket get-of-liability-free card, can it? I mean, if you walk into a convenience store, grab a Coke, and walk out without paying for it, you can't claim "I'm not disregarding payment, I'm changing the rules, rules in which money plays a role." Money plays a role, in the sense that you are expected to pay for the Coke and if you do not, it's theft.
It's uncomfortable to grapple with this, but the publishers were largely looking the other way with respect to the IA's lending library up when they were following the principle of "we've scanned X copies and thus can lend out X copies". Technically, that may still be considered copyright violation, in that the publishers didn't give permission for the copies to be used that way. But they let it slide until the IA decided that the closures of libraries during the pandemic constituted a rationale for "we've scanned at least one copy and thus can lend out as many as we want." SamReidHughes and I don't always see eye-to-eye on many things (hi, Sam), but legally speaking, he's absolutely correct, even if you'd prefer "flagrant copyright violation" rather than "piracy."
I can't believe that the IA did this without knowing full well it was inviting a legal challenge. The original CDL concept at least seems plausible to me, and in any case, I think the terms publishers offer libraries for digital copies are frequently bonkers (e.g., pay $X for a maximum of Y lending times, then be forced to buy a new digital copy). But either the IA deliberately violated copyright with the intent of trying to change the legal standing here -- which necessitates this trial happening -- or they deliberately violated copyright because they are, not to put too fine a point on it, blooming idiots. I would like to think the former, but I'm not sure they have very solid ground to stand on.
Copyright's value proposition is providing a monetization framework by allowing people to prevent others from sharing. Its only function is to limit creating copies. This made sense in the days of the printing press.
Nowadays we have many other monetization models which aren't predicated on limiting sharing. Many large and in some case (open source) leading systems are built on these non-restrictive models.
I think the negative aspects of copyright - the chilling effect on the free exchange of information - is non-linear. The more information we have, the more collective cost is paid by society having to worry about the chilling aspects (is my youtube video legal? Is my software? etc).
If the benefit of copyright is linear and the cost is non-linear as the number of works in the world grows then at some point we should abolish copyright entirely as the collective costs would be greater than the benefit provided by its incentive structure.
I think we probably hit this point in the 1990s, unfortunately. We are long overdue to repeal copyright entirely.
I think it's worth considering not just the number of works, but also the number of copiers.
In the days when copying meant printing presses, the physical act of making copies was overwhelmingly a commercial activity performed by a relative handful of businesses. Making a copy of a substantial work was not something the average person had a serious opportunity to do even once in their entire life, so copyright law only meaningfully restricted a small number of entities. By the mid-1980s, with the proliferation of human-scale media technologies like the photocopier, VCR, camcorder, tape deck, and floppy drive, the number of meaningfully regulated entities began an explosive growth that has not stopped since. Copyright law has been amended with hacks like the AHRA and DMCA, but has never come close to a true reckoning with the modern reality of a copy being just a click away for countless millions of people, never mind cultural phenomena like meme generators, mashups, and fanfic that tend to functionally treat authorship less as a matter of negotiable consideration and more as a matter of tribal history.
It doesn't have anything to do with morals, it's a procedural process that avoids the need for an expensive trial to defend a hopeless claim.
Of course, a party might lose a summary judgement application but ultimately win at trial.