An installation-art company called META (or Meta.is) is suing Meta (or meta.com) | Hacker News Reader

An installation-art company called META (or Meta.is) is suing Meta (or meta.com)

meta.is

99 pointsjordigg66 comments

This site is just tried to fake a chrome update for me. Serving up malware.

Viewing source their wordpress for sure has been hacked.

Obfuscated JS at the bottom of every static js file. Must be something random that it targeted me. cant seam to make it trigger again.

Same thing just happened to me, hope no one falls for it.

I just dropped a message to the CEO via LinkedIn, hope they can check on it. Didn't pop-up for me, either adblock or just being enabled for a sample of the visitors.

Here as well. I loaded the site again and it works fine on a second try.

I use Firefox and it automatically downloaded a .zip file and shown a page with instructions to update Firefox for 'better user experience'.

It's downloading a zipped JScript file, still trying to figure out what it does. It looks like they took an unmodified copy of a normal JS library and wrapped it in an try/catch block so when it errors from not being in the right environment the "error reporter" kicks in and evals some JS is downloads from 582e.call.pgee.org (which appears to be non-functional)

Hey Easrng, how did you reproduce? Which environment triggers the "error reporter"?

Is anybody able to indicate what the obfuscated JS is exactly on the bottom of each page? Or how to reproduce the error?

Works fine for me on 20/07

Woot, thanks.

Back in the day I worked at MetaCreations née MetaTools[0]. We had a web browser plugin that rendered streaming, progressive, interactive 3D - well before WebGL et. al. It shipped with IE and was available for other browsers as well. The MetaStream logo[1][2][3] was surprisingly similar to the Meta one.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MetaCreations

[1] It was surprisingly hard to find a copy of the logo on image search.

[2] https://browserengine.net/wp-content/uploads/metastream3plug...

[3] https://twitter.com/Salliemeta/status/1454571901381058562/ph...

Nothing new under the sun...

Ahh… sorry for pirating Kai’s Power Tools and Ray Dream Studio when I was like 14!

There's a fun blast from the past! InfiniD was my first serious 3D graphics software package when I did that for a while way back when on the Mac. I'm trying to remember how I even discovered that one, I vaguely recall Ambrosia Software used it for creating the sprites in Escape Velocity? I think one of my first personal learning projects was using it to make my own ships and plug-ins for EV (all done by hand with ResEdit) which felt pretty neat at the time. Thanks for your part in what MetaCreations did back then, what a wild time that was.

I worked in a lab four years ago, where Kai (the designer of MetaTools) was an investor, but it didn't work out as although the tech was impressive and cool, it lacked the other components that are needed for a startup. They are still operating and building stuff in Edinburgh [0]. Sadly, they didn't release anything yet.

[0] https://www.kpv-lab.co.uk/

Sadly, there's been a lot of that over the years - really neat and beautiful ideas which were either ahead of their time, or didn't quite find a use or market fit.

Separately, some various Kai Krause related links.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kai_Krause

http://kai.sub.blue/en/

https://fr.ax/

https://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/unbound/digicult/dc970... (Aside: it's kinda neat that this Atlantic archive from 1997 maintains a period-correct look.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryce_(software)#/media/File:B... (An example of the kind of UI Meta software had.)

Kai's Power Tools has the best resizing algorithm i have ever seen.

We had some incredible folks creating cutting-edge graphics algorithms, UI frameworks, etc.

It was sad to see the company disintegrate due to mis-management, but the diaspora has gone on to all the top companies and have continued to do strong work elsewhere.

While I am not a fan of Facebook/Meta, I actually hope that they do not lose this case. If you want to name your company after a word that is in common usage, then you should have to deal with the fact that others may use the same word for their own purposes. JP Morgan seems like a name that hardly limits anyone trying to name their company. Apple or Meta are just words in common usage.

Since it is such a common and useful word, I hope Facebook looses this case, as I would find it sad if that word is associated with their company by most people for the foreseeable future.

Apple Computer still paid $80,000 to Apple Corps [1] even though it was 2 decades before they entered the music space. I don't think apple is a good example for your point.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer#1...

There was a spat between Domino's Pizza and Domino Sugar. For a while, Domino's Pizza had to use their full name, not just "Domino's", in advertising and even when they answered the phone. That seems to have changed, so maybe some new agreement was reached.

Their argument hinges on the fact that both companies operate in the VR space, and I agree with Meta.is here.

Trademark law is pretty clear about protecting a brand name within a given market. "Apple" and "Meta" are just words, yes, but if a second computer company named "Apple" were to appear, this would pretty clearly infringe on the Apple trademark, as opposed to say Apple T-Shirt Company.

> "Apple" and "Meta" are just words, yes, but if a second computer company named "Apple" were to appear, this would pretty clearly infringe on the Apple trademark, as opposed to say Apple T-Shirt Company.

Which is exactly why Apple was called Apple Computers, Inc for a long time, because Apple already existed in computer space and Apple Computers was constantly sued by the original Apple until they finally came to an agreement and the original Apple gave the trademark to Apple Computers.

I thought the “other Apple” existed in the music space. Which wasn’t a problem, until Itunes.

Yes, this was my recollection as well. I'm thinking of the dispute with the Beatles[0], but there may be another.

[0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer

Well then good luck trying to start a new company called Apple or Meta.

Broadly, though - trademark law specifically makes note of how "evocative" the particular word is. Which is to say, "Apple" for computers is more permissible than "Apple" for e.g. a food company.

Not sure where I'd put "Meta" here though, it's so generic for anything.

I also occassionally mourn the death of the word Meta, It was such a beautiful and succinct word.

    Meta means about the thing itself. It's seeing the thing from a higher perspective instead of from within the thing, like being self-aware.

Not to forget the words like Metadata, Meta-physics, Meta-analysis, Metameme.

Long live Meta[adjective].

I just realized now if I put meta-programming on my resume the HR drones are going to think I worked for Zuckerberg.

Doubtful

Yeah, I don't think these holding companies mean much to people inside or outside the company. No random person on the street knows what Alphabet or Meta is, they know Google and Facebook. I certainly don't put "Alphabet" on my resume. I worked there and I don't even know what it meant exactly.

There's a difference, though.

Meta is a renaming. There is no "Facebook" company anymore. It's all Meta. Meta has a product named "Facebook", not a company named "Facebook".

Alphabet is a holding company. "Google" still exists as a standalone company, it's just owned by Alphabet.

I'm not sure about that. Whenever our public TV or radio station, the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, makes reference to Google or Facebook in a corporate sense they always clearly mention the parent company.

don't forget about Meta-Metadata: https://ecologylab.net/research/publications/metaMetadataCIK...

The word Alphabet didn't go away when Google renamed their parent company, and I'm confident that the word meta will also prove stronger than its SV appropriation.

'Meta' is being used for their branding 'Meta Quest 2' Alphabet isn't really used in that fashion

either way they should go with 'Metaspace' or 'Fluppy pups International' since everyone loves puppies

Extremely stupid decision to rename it. Out of all their products only Oculus has overwhelmingly positive brand name, I don't know why they will want to change that. Would make more sense to build stuff around the Oculus name.

Whatsapp is overwhelmingly popular, no? I'd guess much more so than Oculus.

And anecdotally, IG users seem to feel very positively about it in a way that isn't true for fb or Twitter users. Most of the handwringing about IG that I've seen comes from commentators

IG is popular among its users and doesn't have the same image as FB has but it also has been in news for reports on body dysmorphia, depression etc

You are right about WhatsApp though, it aslo largely has a very positive image till now

Yea, but the IG complaints are more of a moral panic than anything else, and don't come from any of the actual users. Though you're right that that feeds into the overall brand.

I think a more apt example is Oracle, which is used in a lot of their branding.

In think in the case of Alphabet, they wanted to insulate the Google brand and company from their other ventures, and they’ve successfully done that. Facebook was doing somewhat the opposite. They wanted to insulate their other brands from the Facebook brand. There’s also some suggestion that Mark Zuckerberg sees VR as the whole future of the company, and wanted that reflected in the name.

It's perfect name for Facebook because now when we hear stories of "FBI Data collection was just the Meta Data" it will mean everything about you, your friends, your call voice data, pictures of your genitals and everything else!

Too much information.

Weird how name/brand recognition works. Facebook the company rebranding had zero impact/change on me. I think of their properties first and the name of the parent company never. It doesn't really matter.

“Please delete all my meta data” will become ambiguous. ;)

I cry a little bit every time people use "meta" or "metagame" as a synonym for "strategy"

In the sense that people are gaming the game (min-maxing and optimising) then it makes perfect sense to me.

Some people seem to spend more time in the meta-game of coming up with the ideal strategy than they do actually playing the game. People who just copy the latest strategy aren’t really playing the meta-game, but English is ambiguous and playing the meta is obvious from context.

It’s not as bad as the people who use IP as a synonym for documentation.

This usage in modern words traces its way back to an analogy to metaphysics transcending physics. In Greek, meta meant with or after and the book metaphysics was named because it came after physics. The Greek word has related etymology to the Old English mið (or mid) which was subsumed into the meaning of with (an original usage of the word with can be found in the word withstanding).

One may notice words that come from the original Greek meaning if they start with meth or met + some vowel except a (although words with this original sense) and modern words (eg in zoology) also exist based on the old Greek meaning, as well as other irregular constructions (in geology words beginning with meta relate to metamorphosis).

Notwithstanding the broken origins of the sense you describe, it is indeed a good word/prefix.

Also a nice fact: "Mit" is still the German word for "with". So is "met", but that's in dutch. The Danes use the word: "med".

  I hereby offer
  Without any rhyme nor reason
  This short meta verse.

Interesting. Given they've dealt in the VR space before, and registered the trademark, this would seem to be a compelling case. I wish them the best.

What if meta.is decides it needs no money and asks FB (I mean meta.com) to do a re-branding :D

It would be awesome, though [sadly] such events in a high-profile context are exceedingly rare in capitalism.

Maybe FB could pivot to MetastasiXed, would be a more suitable name for the stage FB and Zuck have reached.

They could just rename to "FB, Inc". FBI for short.

That won't cause any confusion.

Reminds me of eToys vs eToy in the late 90s. Hacking groups targeted eToys and caused many late nights for the ops team. I joined eToys shortly after as a Perl dev and decided to nmap scan ToysRUs and eToys cybersecurity team was on a hair trigger after the eToy hacks. Someone literally came thumping down the hallway and walked straight into my office. I put my hands up and started apologizing profusely and they let it slide.

https://www.artforum.com/print/200003/etoys-vs-etoy-278

I published a NFT app named "Meta" weeks before Facebook was changed to Meta.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ai.art.nft...

> The name Meta is primarily a female name of German origin that means Pearl.

https://babynames.com/name/meta

Ah yeah - I've been bummed that people now think https://metacademy.org/ is about meta.

META looks set to make a lot of money.

How can we sue something for being meta when everything is meta?

The term “metaverse” was first used in Neil Stevenson's 1982 novel Snow Crash. IANAL but it seems dubious to me that anyone besides Neil gets to claim dibs on the word "meta" as used in the context of VR.

1992 by the way. Seemed way to new when i read it in 90s to be 1982. Your point probably still stands.

Trademarks are about protecting a mark used in commerce, not the first person to utter a word or phrase.

There's loads of companies out there with extremely similar names. It's hard to come up with something totally unique. I believe, legally, it just can't be identical to a name already registered in the same state. When I was trying to name my own business, it was amazing to see how many names were already taken just in my state. Not that it makes it right for Meta/Facebook to do whatever they want but any rebranding they chose would probably have stepped on someone's toes.

When I was trying to name my own business, it was amazing to see how many names were already taken just in my state.

It's slightly more complicated than that.

It has to be a name that hasn't already been registered to cover one of the pre-existing business categories for your state.

And, it also has to be a name that isn't registered nationally to cover one of the federal pre-existing business categories.

It's possible, and very common, to register a trademark within a single state only. I've done it about a half-dozen times in two state. You do it if you have a product or service that you never expect to go national.

It's how you can have multiple unrelated "#1 Quick Mart" and "Danny's Cleaners" in different parts of the nation.

However, in this case, the complainant is in Iceland, so the American rules you and I know don't apply.

> Not that it makes it right for Meta/Facebook to do whatever they want but any rebranding they chose would probably have stepped on someone's toes.

Exactly why I hope Facebook looses this case. Every other startup is being forced to come up with weird unique names, Facebook shouldn't get a pass just because they're big.

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