mygayflatmate.com
Happy to receive some feedback! I am a solo founder (not by option)
Getting kicked out/disowned is an unfortunately common experience for the queer youth and providing them with easy to find safe spaces is a very kind thing to do.
In any case, nice project
It's not a good reason but it's common enough and the targets aren't typically in a strong position to fight it. Some homeless shelters will even kick queer people out if they get in. Look up the controversy around the Salvation Army.
I'm curious to know what advice you've gotten from your lawyer on this.
[1] https://www.hud.gov/program_offices/fair_housing_equal_opp/h...
> The Fair Housing Act prohibits housing and housing-related discrimination because of race, color, national origin, religion, sex (including gender identity and sexual orientation), familial status, and disability.
1. https://www.engadget.com/meta-housing-discrimination-settlem...
> Find your next LGBT+ friendly household
I don't see this as discriminatory. Likewise, if somebody made a site for wheelchair-accessible apartments, that wouldn't be discriminatory either.
The difference between making a site that only lists housing with wheelchair ramps and a site that only rents to those with wheelchairs.
Like craigslist, this site is entirely user-generated listings, and I imagine it gets the same 230 protections.
> Because this website is a tool with the specific purpose of discriminatory housing
It is not. It is a tool to connect people to be roommates together. No housing nor product is provided by the site at all. It is not a platform that targets advertising nor enables targeting advertising to protected groups.
> We hold that one who distributes a device with the object of promoting its use to infringe copyright, as shown by clear expression or other affirmative steps taken to foster infringement, is liable for the resulting acts of infringement by third parties.
I'd argue that this is essentially the same. Craigslist gets a pass because its housing posts are generic, so HUD violations are entirely on the poster.
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MGM_Studios,_Inc._v._Grokster,...
It clearly states it is targeting people who want to live or post a LGTBQ+ friendly place.
It clearly states it is targeting people who want to live or post in a White friendly place."
It clearly states it is targeting people who want to live or post in a Black friendly place."
:) I think the key word is "friendly" not "exclusive".
If I (white) saw 'black friendly cafe' or something, I don't have a problem with that to be clear, but I would absolutely assume that I'm not exactly welcome, that it's intended to serve that community - as in perhaps even specific to a particular country/region people are from (or have heritage) locally.
If what you want is actually a hyper-inclusive mix, I don't really know what you can actively do, but I do think you need to not mention any particular groups or categorise people like that.
In a perfect world, the best thing for inclusivity is that nothing is said
Sadly we don’t live in a perfect world and many LGBT people don’t feel safe
"Pro-black" is not equivalent to "Pro-white" mainly because of the context within the US. "Pro-black" however is equivalent to "Pro-Italian" or "Pro-Irish" because of the historical context of how those phrases relate to generalized heuristic (cultural celebration usually involving commerce).
> If I (white) saw 'black friendly cafe' or something, I don't have a problem with that to be clear, but I would absolutely assume that I'm not exactly welcome, that it's intended to serve that community
If your lived experience is that you haven't been welcome to a 'black friendly cafe', then that is unfortunate. That is not my experience and I can't find any data or historical context that reinforces that narrative. I'm not saying it doesn't happen or that if it did, it would not be wrong, but that statement reinforces my point.
You are using the context of how you would feel as an equivalency to the intent of the person who puts out the message. If you don't allow for nuance, then you will have missed the point.
"Pro-white" or "White friendly" messaging historically has been extremely overt as being anti-Black, so much so that we have entire amendments in our US Constitution that exist in an attempt to combat them.
Do you see the issue with this mode of thinking?
It is not uncommon for people to advertise a room in an "Asian household" (for example) and that isn't discriminating against non-Asians. It is suggesting that Asian people would probably be happier there, but it isn't excluding anyone.
If you did this in China (for instance), where foreigners are not treated all that well, it might be a welcoming message
Although I would change the word white for foreigner
Disparate Impact is a bit crazy.
EDIT: I was wrong, it was having a NO pet policy, which discriminated against families with children! (And people with support animals, and a few other cases) https://kylandlordlaw.com/blogs/news/116214853-unintentional...
Still though, I think you'd be more likely to run into the anti-steering provisions: https://www.nar.realtor/fair-housing-corner/steer-clear-of-s...
We just provide a bridge to create a safe place for the community :)
First, the site advertises LGBT+-friendly housing – it does not appear to discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation. Fortunately, "LGBT+-unfriendly" is not a protected class.
Second, the FHA does not apply to shared living units – see https://www.casebriefs.com/blog/law/property/property-keyed-...
IANAL or even an American for that matter.
There’s a fundamental tension between certain non-discrimination laws and freedom of association. The more intimate the association in question (with roommate selection being much more intimate than leasing in a large apartment building) the stronger the interest in freedom of association.
It's like you can party, just don't party SO hard it irritates your neighbors. :)
I really like the context here and thanks for sharing something I almost did before I saw your post.
Nothing on the site suggests any restrictions on who uses it.
Also, all the autocomplete suggestions seems to be in the UK.
Actually yeah this site is genuinely weird. Like if this was a phishing site for LGBT, which to be clear is unlikely, but if it was I'd expect it to look a bit like this. Zero info at all.
Regarding the address privacy - The information is not provided by us. The user will receive the information by the listing owner, by private message.
You also see folks specifically omit the T these days (LBG) to specifically include trans folks.
To be clear, the OP sounds like they are a good person and I'm not accusing them of anything negative! Just noting that some folks might interpret the URL differently than intended.
In general, I don't mind queer folks calling me queer, but I really bristle when I hear cishet folks use it.
We spent several days thinking in a better name. We decided to keep this one, but we know at some point we will need to change it. This was more of a SEO strategy; to be more readable; and to stay easily in the mind.
For example: If it was "mylgbtqflatmate" would be so difficult to understand.
We understand that not everyone identifies as "gay" and we don't want to focus only in that segment.
Do you have any suggestion you would like to give? We would love to listen new ideas!! :D
I mean, imagine 'mystraightflatmate.com', the site to help you find a non-LGBT flatmate.. :/
(I'm certainly not saying OP's homophobic - I don't know where that came from.)
For historical analogy, consider American hotels in the 60s advertising they’re Black friendly. They’re not only for Black Americans. But they’re welcoming towards them in a way others, following the letter but perhaps not spirit of the law, are not.
I don't really have a problem with it personally, for what it's worth, I find that law a bit problematic (it seems to preclude 'positive/affirmative action', not that I like that much either, for one thing: can a male applicant sue for being passed over in favour of a lesser-qualified female candidate because a firm wanted to improve its diversity?) I was just discussing it.
Otherwise landlords (which is really anyone renting out a space they own) could be putting themselves in legal jeopardy by using this site.
More info: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/right-to-rent-lan...
I will keep in touch with you soon using the contact form from the web.
does that matter? not to me. sex work is work and sex workers usually make it clear as to what their listing is about (otherwise they won't get work).
I'm not sure where are you from. But in London we have the "Flatshare" culture. Sometimes people move to a room without having a clue of who will be their flatmates (and it happen to me in my first home)...
We recomemend our users to meet their flatmates before having a tenancy. But this should be applied for anyone, not exclusively LGBT+ people. :)
Regarding "hookup site", we believe there's other apps better developed for that purpose. But actually, on Grindr (most used gay dating app) you can find enumerous profiles saying "Looking for room" or "Room available".
There are already loads of outlets which are focused explicitly on hookups. I struggle to see a reason that this pretty innocent "flatshares for people who don't want to be gay-bashed" site would become one.
This is what the HN community is like when talking about LGBT issues. Theoretical acceptance may have come a long way at least in the west, but empathy really does seem to have a long way to go.
For your humanity, please develop a basic understanding of discrimination that certain groups suffer from, who tends to discriminate against them, and why. It will help you to understand more people, and enrich your life by being able to interact and share with people with wider ranges of experience.
It's easier to see this if you s/LGBT/<other>/.
Your idea while honorable ignores the reality that queer people experience and that one of the two parties in the US is planning to strip away more of their rights. (See: Recent RvW ruling that had their next targets set, like same sex marriage)
That's not to mention the benefits of having people around who understand the various social, familial and professional struggles they might face, often empathizing through first hand experience.
I know many queer people who prefer to live in queer friendly houses and every city I've lived in has had ad-hoc Facebook groups catering to this need.
This is a really interesting statement. How would someone discriminate against someone who is LGBTQIA+ without knowing that they were or not? LGBTQIA+ is not something that can be recognized right away like skin color.
To say nothing about things like "passing" in the trans community, or stereotypes about gay men and lesbian women.
Even for non-flatmate scenarios, some landlords are remarkably nosy. Also, in many jurisdictions trans people may have legal docs in a name they don't use anymore... the list goes on.
It's also reasonably common for people to be discriminated against because people _incorrectly think that they are LGBT_, incidentally.
Different minority groups get different results from phone call inquiries by voice, because they have distinct linguistic patterns not present in General American English. LGBT people also have their own distinct patterns, though not all LGBT people use them.
Also, some visual markers are probably present in the gay population at a higher rate than the general population, like earrings, dyed hair, or wearing clothing not tied to their sex.
It's best to read things in good faith. On the whole, people on HN do try to be helpful.
I’m assuming one doesn’t want to learn their flatmate is a raging homophobe the first time someone of the same sex is brought around.
There's a crisis in LGBTQ+ housing.
Putting queer folks in with cishet folks puts the burden of educating those cishet folks on the shoulders of someone who is already struggling to find housing.
Someone experiencing housing struggles because they are queer doesn't need the added burden of being someone's teacher. Those people who need to learn the lesson that humanity is what's important? They need to learn that without relying on minorities to teach them.
If they are looking for housing, they just should look for housing.
I don’t need any unsolicited teachings. Go on with your life, the sexuality, pronouns or identities of others are of no use to me.
The interactions you are describing seem way too unnecessarily complex for my liking, I am mostly looking to reduce cost of living, having a few drinks from time to time and playing the occasional board game night.
Being lectured about critical race theory or whatever, seems exhausting.
I don’t think I am that much interested about why people are doing the things they do. So being « educated » without asking for it, seems annoying.
All in all, I agree with the project of OP, it’s a good idea that people who want to educate others can segregate themselves with people who are interested by being lectured.
That sure is a take, my dude.
I think he is creating a safe space for queer people AND he is indirectly creating a safe space for non queer people at the same time.
You are the only one here who believes you need to educate others and look down on them.
If you find people who like to be educated and lectured all day just because they live, then I have no problems with that.
But I will keep living with flat mates, not people whose whole lives revolve around lecturing other people.
As stated before, I am glad this project exists, so we can both segregate and live in different places.
Intolerance: lack of tolerance; unwillingness or refusal to tolerate or respect opinions or beliefs contrary to one's own
Because the only person here who has a problem with the opinions of others is the one who is trying hard to educate others without being solicited to do so.
Name calling others is a pretty weak strategy to appear tolerant.
You know how we do that?
LGBT people regularly move across the country to find safer spaces for them to be themselves, because there isn’t much in terms of safety or community for them where they grow up.
So while I applaud the good intention, the actual reality is pretty grim, the ideal solution would be to let LGBTQ people live like any other people. However, we decided to label and group and trying to get them to create their own bubbles and I feel like this is not diversity but systematic exclusion.
Pretty soon we will see LGBTQ ghettos and the same level of exploitation that comes when you concentrate people with all sorts of personal boundaries/expectations that are not aligned. The idea that LGBTQ are somehow all united and see themselves on a flat hierarchy is misplaced and its a recipe for disaster.
It should be like in Japan, where the mainstream isn't really forced to adopt any particular views or forced to hire people from said groups but still get along respectably and more importantly, people simply do not put so much emphasis on sexuality like in Judeo-Christian societies.
Lastly, LGBTQ in Japan does not wonder about getting killed by some flag bearing closeted and insecure, violent and poor groups. Kindergartens in Japan aren't having mass shooter drills or building bulletproof panic lockers.
Neither country is better than the other, each has its own ups and downs but
In Japan you can have gay/trans walk around and they aren't worried for their safety or facing violence from strangers.
In West you can have gay/trans marriages and rights but they are walking around fearing for violence from strangers even in "liberal progressive" hoods.
Japan is also in process of introducing gay marriages, trans rights, albeit slow.
https://www.hrc.org/resources/fatal-violence-against-the-tra...
Gender is also very restricted. You're a man or a woman.
Clearly the West is a leader in LGBTQ rights but the issues of violence and low social trust is another large structural difference in both cultures.
I don't think I'm romanticizing Japan rather drawing contrasts. LGBTQ folks already can accept levels of social isolation/exclusion and that is true in the West as well. There is more political correctness but there still exists risk of violence in the West at a level that is different from Japan.
Japan typically has had LGBTQ culture traditionally and wasn't an issue until the arrival of Christianity. So take what you can from this.
Anecdotes are not data, and extrapolating from 'some people told me about horrible situations' to 'ghettos and exploitation ' is complete baseless.