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Comment by lettergram | Hacker News Reader

Just because harm is done, doesn’t mean you should do more?

Abortion poses risks to the mother psychological and physical.

While there’s some mental risk to the mother related to carrying a baby. Ultimately, you can give it up for adoption. I haven’t seen studies on the exact damage carrying a baby to term is, but I expect it’s relatively low when compared to abortion. That said, I think we should follow the evidence.

Luckily, those cases are extremely rare. Further, the question is still when do you take the life of the human the woman is carrying? I think that’s a complex issue, as even if someone was born of rape or incest, we don’t discuss killing them at 1yr old.

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You're expectation is wrong. The mortality rate alone is 23.8 per 100k for live births were it's only 0.7 per 100k for abortions and there many of the abortions that resulted in death were for complicated pregnancies that would have been at high or even certain risk. Have you ever talked to your mother about what pregnancy was like for her? Mine has never quite gotten the bladder control back they had before and that was for kids they choose to have and love. Physically a pregnancy is insanely tough even when it goes well.

Emotionally, let me just say that the idea that giving a child up for adoption is pain free is crazy. Put yourself in their shoes. You've just gone through one of the most painful moments of your life. You have a crying baby in front of you, all of evolution, not to mention society, has conditioned you to at this moment rather than throwing away this little annoying being to sacrifice the next several decades of your life to the thankless job of caring for them and you think it's easy and uncomplicated to put them up for adoption?

I'm not saying abortions are uncomplicated of course, but letting a mother make that choice for herself seems much less likely to get it wrong, and frankly from where I'm sitting taking a pill seems a lot less traumatizing, but it a decision I will never actually have to make and I'm fine letting the people who will make the decision

> Abortion poses risks to the mother psychological and physical. > ... > While there’s some mental risk to the mother related to carrying a baby. Ultimately, you can give it up for adoption. I haven’t seen studies on the exact damage carrying a baby to term is, but I expect it’s relatively low when compared to abortion. That said, I think we should follow the evidence.

You couldn't be more wrong. We're talking orders of magnitude difference between giving birth and having an abortion. Abortions are comparatively extremely safe—especially when done legally in a medical environment. There are 0.4 deaths per 100k abortions. [1] Comparatively, 23.8 per 100k women die in childbirth every year. [2]

> even if someone was born of rape or incest, we don’t discuss killing them at 1yr old.

Important distinction: a 1 year old can exist outside of another human being's body. They can be put up for adoption or into foster care. An unborn being cannot.

[1] https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/24/what-the-da...

[2] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/maternal-mortality/2020...

I think you also have to track suicides and lasting psychological and physical damage.

https://www.bmj.com/content/313/7070/1431

There’s a lot of data out there; it’s political and I’m sure we can both point to evidence. My point was simply that abortion isn’t a non-risky event; it’s high risk. Not simply due to immediate risk, but long tail risk.

It’s hard having this discussion because we can both find evidence to the contrary. That said, if you know people who’ve had abortions, many regret it. The risks really aren’t tracked or shared either.

Regarding your 1 year old comment, a 20 week old can also exist out of a body. And there are 1 year olds who need life support. The argument doesn’t hold. The same arguments against infanticide hold up for abortions. I hold no judgement really, but the debate should be taken in good faith.

You want to talk about good faith? You just said "people who've had abortions, many regret it". Without even providing a ratio.

UCSF studies show 95% of women who went through abortion believe it was the right decision.

In another response in this thread you pretend to be neutral about the debate, but the example I mentioned above makes you dishonest and clearly opinionated one way.

> even if someone was born of rape or incest, we don’t discuss killing them at 1yr old

You are correct in this quote. But to a lot of people, there is a fundamental difference in the moral consideration due to (e.g.) a 15 week old fetus and a 1 year old child. You may disagree with that, but that is where you have to make your argument.

Just saying "well, you won't let parents kill their toddlers, so... checkmate!" is really not doing any work for you, and just makes it look like you're not engaging. I guess that's par for the course for this debate now... but since it's back on the legislature, let's start trying to figure out how to engage with one another.

How about this: Let's say you are god-king, and everyone seeking an abortion has to petition you for one. Can you construct any scenario at all (no matter how outlandish) where your decision would change if the pregnancy was the result of a rape?

> Abortion poses risks to the mother psychological and physical. > While there’s some mental risk to the mother related to carrying a baby. > I haven’t seen studies on the exact damage carrying a baby to term is, but I expect it’s relatively low when compared to abortion.

Post natal depression is a thing, and has both mental and physiological impacts.

Likewise post birth trauma is a serious issue and can result in permanent health issues for the mother.

See https://www.instyle.com/beauty/health-fitness/maternal-suici...

> I haven’t seen studies on the exact damage carrying a baby to term is, but I expect it’s relatively low when compared to abortion

That's one way to write "I have no kids and barely paid attention in sex-ed".

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