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lwf

Surprised to not see gmail.com in the list[1].

[1]: https://drewdevault.com/2021/02/25/Gmail-is-a-huge-source-of... , https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26265329

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DARPA invented a communications network that could survive a nuclear war. Instead, everyone uses Gmail.

If any other source of spam was so resistant to receiving abuse reports, they would be blackholed by everyone.

Thanks, antitrust enforcement.

> DARPA invented a communications network that could survive a nuclear war. Instead, everyone uses Gmail.

So sad, but so true!

When I self-hosted email I used Spamhaus to as a block list and Spam Assassin to filter the rest. Gmail users made up the biggest chunk of spam that got through but it was never from Google/Gmail domains, it was almost always from a Gmail user with a custom domain.

I wonder if SPF / DKIM / DMARC have improved this.

Google domains doesnt make it quite as easy as other hosting providers, and to be honest if they were super serious about email abuse they should encourage every domain to use it.

There is a marketing company that is constantly adding me to new spammy lists they are creating. They are using AWS SES / SendGrid / other reputable providers.

The emails all pass SPF/DKIM/DMARC and filing abuse reports seems to get me taken off the list I complained about but I quickly get added to a different one.

I am this close to auto-blocking anything from these large providers and switching to allow-listing the legitimate domains that can send me e-mail.

Unfortunately Google doesn't let you filter on arbitrary headers, otherwise at this point I'd delete everything with a List-Unsubscribe header.

Hmm, it looks like you can do this with Apple's Mail client.

really?

edited:

yeah, add two rules to macOS Mail app:

* delete From: “info@twitter.com” rule

* delete From: “twitter” rule

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtB1OFNN4Ak

I feel this. Because of a Google Group I briefly followed one of my email addresses got incorrectly associated with my Kickstarter account on some marketing list somewhere and gets added to so much "legitimate" marketing lists for fly-by-night Kickstarters. It's really frustrating and the accident of it being a "wrong" email at least makes it somewhat easier to manage (though I worry if I ignore that mailbox too much I may miss the rare once in a few years important email to it).

For a while MailChimp was the only one of the major/reputable providers I trusted the Unsubscribe button on because they had a "I did not sign up for this button" that supposedly dinged the mailing list owner's reputation with them, but more than that would supposedly make it a bit tougher for the next mailing list to just dump that email in without a verification step or a cool off period.

That button disappeared recently and I guess MailChimp no longer cares either. Shame.

> For a while MailChimp was the only one of the major/reputable providers I trusted the Unsubscribe button on

Mailchimp is up there with Marketo and Sendgrid for me. Getting unsubscribed from something I never opted into… well I still haven't figured out how to do that.

SPF does not protect you from a pown smtp server (neither DKIM/DMARC, then SPF is "enough" for self-hosted smtp servers, and does force you to use DNS (the SMTP protocol works without DNS).

Spammers use vpn nowadays. This make these spammhaus like services useless. They change IPs every week.

Most mail protection models against spam don't work.

I have an idea of a method that could help reduce spam and undesirable mails. It would be free for non-spammers and spammers would pay.

The problem is that I'm not sure if people would be ready to adopt it. There is also many different ways to execute, and I'm not sure which one to pick.

People don't set up email servers on VPN endpoints. That's not how email works.

You don't need a mail server to send mail. One can send mails through a VPN as client.

Then the spam is coming from the email servers which are used to relay that spam. Headers can be forged, so the source before the spam server can't be trusted as real.

spammhaus is blocking self-hosted smtp servers.

Have a look at grey listing.

Spamhaus is blocking by IP which can be an smtp server or a client. The SMTP protocol does not allow to distinguish a sending SMTP server from a client.

By using a VPN, you "randomize" the IP address and thus make spamhaus and equivalent services useless. I created my own IP blacklist and tracked it.

The only method I found to filter my spammers is to reject mails from hosts without a name. This eliminated 80% of spam, but it won't last long.

The mail system is completely broken.

use grey listing

I have spammers retrying 20 times before giving up. This protection is well known and easily circumvented be spammers.

but it filters a lot already because many do retry 20 times in less than 20 minutes.

With Sonic I have to use their servers for outbound stuff since they block outbound SMTP without a static IP (and they don't offer static IPs with fiber). It's a price I'm willing to pay since I typically don't see false positives (and ye I check my logs periodically) with Spamhaus.

Unfortunately I've moved to Proton and the increase in spam is pretty damn frustrating.

I've used Postgrey, for Postfix, and it's greatly reduced my spam. However, first emails from new folk are delayed a bit.

https://postgrey.schweikert.ch/

grey listing seems to be the only reasonable way to keep the Email in the "free world" (namely where spammers are allowed to do their "thing").

But gmail will do everything to take over the Email using the "spammers" as an excuse.

The current round is using DKIM verified messages from the gmail.com domain.

DKIM: 'PASS' with domain gmail.com

Despite the title, the article you linked has nothing whatsoever to do with spam coming from Gmail.

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