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Comment by explodingwaffle | Hacker News Reader

They should be illegal- the waste of RECHARGEABLE lithium cells in DISPOSABLE vapes is insane. At least in the UK, anywhere there are teenagers these things follow. I'll admit as an electronics hobbyist these can be a good source of free batteries though (hell, it'd probably be cheaper and certainly quicker for me to walk into a vape shop and shuck these for the batteries than it is to buy them online).

Real evil villain stuff tbh- wasting rare metals, getting kids addicted to nicotine, probably shipped by the boatload from China...

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These types of situations make me think some externalities should be priced in, perhaps through taxes. It's ridiculous that these devices make litter of rare metals that also have a risk of fires. If we're gonna allow it, it ought to include the cost of inevitably cleaning them up off the streets

"These types of situations make me think some externalities should be priced in, perhaps through taxes. "

Why not all? Externalities are hard to determine but in general this should be a principle in a capitalist market economy.

The free market already accounts for externalities by making other people pay for them.

that's not how that works

In theory or in practice? How should/does it work?

By the literal definition of what an "externality" is.

A company cutting costs by dumping their PFAS into the local river isn't being "paid for" by anyone. Except with our health and all the dead insects and fish and compounding environmental effects brought with it

By definition an externality is a "market failure" because the market completely fails to account for this effect. There are "positive externalities" as well, but that's obviously not relevant here

That's literally true but that's inefficient. The question is whether it's more inefficient than whatever you try to do to solve it and the risk it does more harm than good.

Problem is if we started pricing in this stuff it would absolutely obliterate other, much more wasteful practices. If these were priced in, almost no one could afford to drive SUVs like they do now. Which is a good thing but isn't going to be accepted by the public.

These stupid things and fairly large Nox canisters (650g) are utterly befouling my locality here in London.

I despair. I really do.

Maybe it’s just the news I’m fed, but I have an unshakeable feeling that China is waging war with “the west”, but they’re doing it discretely, by making everyone a little sicker.

Considering what "the west" did to itself in past centuries (and still does) I think China is just participating in a preëxisting tradition of self harm.

China doesn't have to do anything on purpose. America and American's utter disregard for anything other than saving a couple pennies here and there mean every possible corner will be cut, without any purposeful planning or damaging intent.

True, but that’s beside the point.

Why is it insane? What's the harm in someone disposing what they have paid for?

Lithium mining is horrible. Landfills are a problem. The more mining the more pollution. The more disposable lithium the more mining.

Lithium mining isn't particularly bad and it is mostly done in fairly well regulated parts of the world (mainly Australia and Chile) with at least somewhat enforced worker and environmental protections.

It's possible you are thinking of Cobalt which is very bad?

Yeah you're right, cobalt is probably worse, but lithium isn't great either. All unnecessary mining seems pretty horrible to me, even thought these capes might not be as bad as disposable lithium AA s that are probably made in larger qty.

They didn't pay for the processing.. We ignore a lot of cost when selling a product, and particularly the cost of recycling, which start to be a huge issue taking in account the amount of waste produced..

This gives us the feeling that electricity is almost free and green, while in the meantime we damage entire area through lithium mining (E.g https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/06/business/lithium-mining-r...)

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