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Comment by ColinWright | Hacker News Reader

I'm going to be blunt, and I'm neither going to apologise for it, nor ask your forgiveness or understanding.

Do you really think I haven't considered all these points? Do you really think I haven't considered alternatives? I have, and I have, and my conclusion is that I (a) want to stay in touch with these people, and (b) have no effective alternative.

These are people I care about, who care about me, and who are, today, using FB almost to the exclusion of anything else because they find it convenient and have given up nearly everything else. Despite many attempts they are unwilling or unable to use email as effectively as they use FB, and proliferating platforms would do them no favours at all.

You, and several others in this discussion, are using what you believe to be ironclad reasoning to replace any sense of understanding, sympathy, or empathy.

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Out of curiosity, did you consider good old paper mail? That is what I switched to with my relatives, we just exchange letters once or twice a month. Sharing photos is easy, just put it into the envelope. Seems to work fine even with my grandparents (they seems to prefer it honestly, feels more personal they say).

I'm honestly curious if you considered this and why did you rule it out?

That would help with single-point-contact, but it doesn't help with "The Group". It would also be a problem with several of them who struggle to write physically because of arthritis and poor eyesight, but who have learned to use the FB app or the web interface on a laptop/desktop where the tech can help.

But they (most of them) don't know how to use email, despite my trying to coach and coax them through it multiple times. Their children or niblings have set them up on FB, taught them how to use it, and it's the only thing they use.

I do send a monthly letter to my mother's 97 year-old sister -- my aunt -- because she doesn't use a computer at all, and doesn't even use SMS. But she can't write back to me, so I rely on getting news from her via the phone calls I have with my mother.

Part of the problem is that these relatives (and pseudo-relatives, very close friends of my parents who were like aunts and uncles) have an relatively (pardon the pun) active group, posting photos and statuses (individually rarely, but as a group there's a post a day on average) which keeps the group connected and active. And they want to know what I'm doing.

The many-to-many aspect of FB really makes it a winner, along with the ease of posting, reading, and staying in touch with the group as a whole. As a platform for capabilities it's genuinely fantastic. It's the underlying cesspit of scumminess that's the problem.

Hope that answers your question.

Yes, it does. Thank you for thoughtful response. I think I understand you reasoning.

> These are people I care about, who care about me, and who are, today, using FB almost to the exclusion of anything else because they find it convenient and have given up nearly everything else.

Just to be clear-- they send and receive rich content over the FB app (taking and forwarding pictures and/or video, etc.), but they don't know how to send/receive that content through text messages?

Not trying to be unsympathetic-- it's just that every non-technical user of a smartphone I've ever seen degrades to text messages.

Using FB to post photos is really, really easy. Sending photos via SMS costs money under the plans they use.

And you're asking people in their 90s to become familiar with more than one interface when they struggle to understand that "internet" is not "the web", and "the web" is not "Facebook", and worse, they think FB is everything.

And for them, it is. It's the only interface they use.

I think there’s something to be said about being uncompromising and unwilling to accommodate others. It shows some amount of conviction which is admirable but conversely I think, accommodating others shows empathy and care for them.

I think the argument that this filters out those who do not care could also illustrate that they them self also do not care (not that loosing friends to mutual apathy is a terrible thing ultimately).

I agree with you. For most people 'just don't use it' simply is not an option. We just have to hope Mark Zuckerberg gets removed or the proper regulation gets introduced to make the platform better

It's not a lack of empathy or understanding it's that those of us who faced the dilemma you seem stuck on found the people who care and we care about still found ways to communicate after we left Facebook. Calls and texts are sufficient. I'm sorry you feel that trapped though. Something seems off in your replies. And ultimately nobody here has said anything that you have to listen to but you seem pretty defensive.

> Calls and texts are sufficient.

No, they're not. I refer you to my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32131180

> ... you seem pretty defensive.

I'm really rather tired of people saying "Well just stop using FB" while apparently expending zero effort to understand the context.

I'll stop now.

There was a time my entire network was on Facebook. I decided I didn’t want to be anymore. I reached out to everyone who was important to me off Facebook. Within 12 months, I knew who I was actually important to too. Sure, some of them I now only speak to once or twice a year, compared to comments regularly on posts, but the interactions are much deeper and more meaningful than that superficial FB interactions.

It wasn’t easy. It was worth it. This isn’t for everyone, and depends in your own stage in life. Be safe, be strong, be happy.

Helps the site (and is less irritating personally) to just flag the thread-invariant toplevel trope comments. 'stop using facebook' on anything fb-related is just that kind of comment.

Sorry, I should have said We've found calls and texts sufficient. My point is people seemed to be giving you anecdotes about how they personally got away and you are taking it as "DO THIS" You are free to keep up on Facebook. We're not shaming you or at least I'm not reading the comments that way. My point is - if you really want off Facebook, you can do it.

This is an incredibly condescending and dismissive reply to someone expressing vulnerability. I ask you to consider simply scrolling past and/or closing the tab if your reaction to someone expressing vulnerability includes the words “I’m sorry you feel […]” or “[…] you seem pretty defensive”.

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