Hacker News Reader

Comment by ok_dad | Hacker News Reader

The idea is subs deliver missiles halfway around the world, the rockets do the rest. It’s a matter of an hour for a rocket to transit from the Great Lakes to the other side of the planet, but half that for rockets fired from most of the way there already.

View on HN

Shortening the time to target is one of the benefits (well, is that really the right term here?) of submarines, yes, but another is survivability for a retaliatory strike as a deterrent. Trident missiles have at least a 7,500 mile range. A couple in the Great Lakes would provide that with complete safety against Russian hunter-killer subs.

Russian subs are already in the Great Lakes.

surely this is in jest

If you’re not joking, where do you suspect they were deployed from?

Wisconsin, duh.

https://xkcd.com/405/

Passing through Montreal and Quebec City at 27' of depth in the dead of night (challenging for a Yasen at 32' draft but possibly some freak condition might make it possible) a few drunks watching in awe as it slides silently under bridges. River patrol craft carefully edging out of the way (a tearful salute offered to brave comrades, perhaps a lifted glass of Vodka or a gentle pat on the wallet to acknowledge regular payment). Other patrol craft can be seen lying idle by the side of the water due to their crew celebrating "arranged" events, or being "taken out" by the KGB (or whatever they've taken to calling themselves now).

Now it runs through Lake Ontario and spends a day lolling in the deep cold waters there before night falls once more and enters the Nigara river (oh shit, you see where this is going) and starts the run through Nigara City.

At full speed the most daring Naval maneuver of all time is about to be attempted. Now, finally, the true value of the Yansen class will be revealed as two vast titanium wings snap out from under the hull and the super-cavitating bubble generator is deployed. The hidden rocket engines on the rear of the boat ignite. The submarine fills with the stench of human excrement as the whole crew void their bowels in unison and the Russian sub leaps from the water in front of Nigara falls and..

oh I give up.

Just when HN seemed to have settled into semi-intelligent tech talk we get this.

Sheeech

While the parent post here is (I hope) a joke, the reply here is beautifully written and now I want a full length story of how this could happen.

I want a TV show about this submarine, but a comedy like Hogan’s heroes lol.

> Just when HN seemed to have settled into semi-intelligent tech talk we get this

Oh, HN has always been like this on topics not directly related to tech.

As others have posted, you must be joking?

Are you aware that in order to reach the Great lakes via the ocean requires navigating several locks?

Do you propose the Russian subs stopped at the locks, paid the lock fees and continued on their way?

when the reach the locks, what type of ship do they state they are

https://greatlakes-seaway.com/en/commercial-shipping/tolls-s...

They don't list "submarine"?

It does seem silly, but not out or the realm of possibility. The Great Lakes stretch further north and closer to the Russian heartland than almost any land in America. Any international waters further north and closer by great circle distance to Moscow, besides the north Atlantic, are covered in ice part of the year. Someone said it's cheaper to dig holes in the ground. The problem is those holes are on a first strike list. There's a case for second strike capabilities based in the Great Lakes.

Great lakes commercial fisherman and also crew on container ships have said for years that they see weird stuff dozens of miles offshore in the Great lakes.

Fish stories and all that. But there is precedent for submarines and even aircraft carriers in the Great lakes. Lake Michigan is filled with crashed trainer aircraft from WWII.

Can you be more specific about the weird stuff? Are you suggesting the Great Lakes are occupied by foreign states?

A comment above mentions a demilitarization treaty of the Great Lakes.

> Are you suggesting the Great Lakes are occupied by foreign states?

I am definitely not suggesting it's a foreign state. That's less probable than unknown domestic military activities.

Reports of odd lights in sky or water. Or general nonspecific stories of "weird shit".

There's more too, but those are fish stories (sharks, people claim).

I like to do outdoorsy stuff, so this is what I've heard from fisherman, ferrymen, etc.

Can you provide a map which indicates how the "Great lakes" (Lakes Superior, Michigan, Huron, Erie, and Ontario) are somehow "close to Moscow"?

These lakes are in general on or near the Canada–United States border.

There are rivers to the north which feed the lakes, but the lakes are no where near Moscow.

Perhaps you mean Moscow, Ontario which is around 35KM north of Lake Ontario?

If not, Moscow, Russia is a 16 hour flight from the great lakes area.

An ICBM will take less than an hour to travel that distance ballistically. Ie going to space and back.

Since you asked, here's a polar projection centered on Moscow.

https://www.loc.gov/resource/g3201b.ct002675/?r=0.011,0.16,1...

You're skipping over the concept of "survivability" of submarines which enable a second-strike capability. It's not about getting the missiles closer to the enemy, but ensuring that there are nukes that can be launched in the case of the US falling to a surprise attack.

In theory this would deter a first-strike against the US because the subs could still retaliate with massive damage. Thus, cutting second-strike capability could make first-strike more likely in the eyes of US strategic (eg nuclear) planning.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_triad

Yes, the fact that nobody really knew where the subs were was a key factor in that first strike survivability. Even ComSubPacFlt only knew of very large sectors of ocean that a boat was to patrol, the rest was up to the captain and circumstances.

[1] https://designobserver.com/feature/blast-door-art-cave-paint... <- says 30 minutes or less.

Hmm…maybe I don’t quite understand what you’re saying. But I think you’re implying is that subs drive pretty far away with their nuclear missiles and shoot closer to the target?

Keep in mind if we launch a missile from the Great Lakes, it’s heading north over the arctic to get to its destination.

That’s part of the idea. Another is, as parent suggests, survivability and stealth.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com