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Comment by kkielhofner | Hacker News Reader

Mobile apps better support their business model:

- Push notifications. Last time I installed the app (to test this) the default notification settings are unreal - literally dozens of push notifications per day. If you change your notification settings in the app to essentially turn off everything Facebook will still send you a few per day as in "Hey, you don't seem to be addicted to the app and use it every hour. Here's a reminder for you to jump back in and get those dopamine hits you're missing." This of course translates to more add views (and potential clicks), more DAUs, etc.

- Greater access to XYZ on mobile. Apple famously cracked down on this a bit but it's still more data.

- Doom scrolling. It's easier for people (and I think they're more conditioned) to swipe endlessly on a mobile device vs scrolling on desktop. Again more add views/clicks, etc.

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I suspect all of these also apply to Reddit.

The new Reddit web interface makes the Facebook web interface look fast. It's amazing just how slow it is – many buttons take multiple seconds to respond, scrolling is nearly unusable, all on high-end modern computers in modern browsers.

I'm sticking to old.reddit.com as long as I can, I dread the day they get rid of it as an option.

The day old.reddit.com disappears is the day I stop browsing Reddit on desktop, just like the day their API access gets too restrictive for third-party clients to make sense (which I wouldn't be surprised to happen at some point, given how they're treating it with the newest features) is the day I'll stop browsing on mobile. Their main site and app are both utter garbage.

Apollo.app on apple silicon macs to the rescue.

> The day old.reddit.com disappears is the day I stop browsing Reddit on desktop

I know threats like this are cliche, especially about UI refreshes of long-loved web sites, but this one rings true for me. Like Facebook, I'll miss some of the content, but at a certain point the experience isn't worth it.

Reddit should know. It was a major beneficiary when digg did then same thing to themselves.

> (which I wouldn't be surprised to happen at some point, given how they're treating it with the newest features)

Luckily the absence of the newest features is generally a positive.

Sure, I don't miss them too much. Still doesn't bode too well for the future of the API IMHO

Serious question, why do y'all keep browsing it now if you know you'll be getting rid of it as soon as the old ui stops working?

This feels like the weirdest instance of stockholm syndrome, I've seen this so much. And don't get me wrong, I totally understand where you're coming from, Reddit is user-hostile as hell. But... why keep using it then? Why keep giving pageviews and ad money to a trashy website that hates you?

I used to post a ton on Reddit. My browsing of it has been reduced to maybe all of a couple times a week on my local city's subreddit only. I didn't wait for the UI to go even more to shit to essentially stop using it.

Edit: I guess my point's been missed. Maybe to rephrase: How do you get any sort of enjoyment out of actively using a website that hates you? How does this not make you want to use it less and less regardless of how good the content is?

Cause I still find some enjoyment in smaller subreddits. I used to hang out on phpbb forums back in my early teens, now that crowd is mostly on niche subreddits. I just know that I like it, but not enough that it would keep me in if I had to endure the new UI. Not sure what's so Stockholm-ish about that.

Edit: I don't understand how my comment did not answer your rephrased question, so I probably wasn't that clear. old.reddit.com is still there, the API still works just fine, so does my favorite third-party client - the same one I've been using for years. The new features I'm missing out on by using the site in this way, I don't care about. My usage is still perfectly enjoyable and the site doesn't do anything to actively make me feel that "hate" you're talking about.

I don't think you were unclear, I guess you just don't feel what I feel. It doesn't matter if I'm using old.reddit or the new UI, Reddit doesn't want me there. The new UI is basically a giant fuck you to anyone not using the phone app, the phone app is a fuck you to anyone who wants some amount of privacy or agency over their free time, the old UI is unmaintained and going the way of the dodo, and third party apps are basically guaranteed to be gone as soon as Reddit can justify it.

It's like .. okay, imagine you have this market you used to shop at. You really enjoyed going there for years, but it's been bought by Walmart. For reasons, Walmart isn't shutting down the market, but they're not restocking it, making sure it smells bad and the products are past due-date, and they're almost threatening you to use their big store which you absolutely don't want to use "or else".

And instead of looking for your shopping elsewhere, you decide to keep shopping at that market until Walmart shuts down what you used to like, because, idk, I guess there's still a couple products there you like?

It's a stretched comparison, sure, but this is how it feels like to me. Bar some very specific communities (which are moving over time), content on there is not exclusive to Reddit. And even the niche communities you might enjoy there, there's plenty more on the internet (or even offline) you can be a part of and find true enjoyment in.

Tildes for example is the one I'm a part of (https://tildes.net/). I quite like being part of a community where the website doesn't do everything in its power to piss me off and force me to make it more money. If anyone wants an invite feel free to email me (cf profile).

> It's like .. okay, imagine you have this market you used to shop at. You really enjoyed going there for years, but it's been bought by Walmart. For reasons, Walmart isn't shutting down the market, but they're not restocking it, making sure it smells bad and the products are past due-date, and they're almost threatening you to use their big store which you absolutely don't want to use "or else".

The comparison isn't just stretched IMHO, but downright faulty. With the old site and the API being both still present and perfectly functional, it's more like if said Walmart kept the old store up right next to the new one, still keeping it stocked - the new store has new sections, but I'm perfectly free to shop in the old one. Nothing makes me feel like I'm not wanted there.

Maybe that's enough for you to feel unwanted, it doesn't for me - yet. When they do cut old/API, it'll start feeling like they're actively pushing me out, therefore my previous stance.

They don't hate you, they want to make money off you. It's not a fuck you, it's a series of A/B test results.

You, and for the record I, are not the target market for this money making angle anymore. They don't hate us though, they nothing us.

We can still bypass all of the A/B testing with old/api methods so it still works. Why use Reddit? Because it's user generated content not Reddit generated content. It's not much deeper than that.

Tildes is like that now, they'll probably be doing the same or shut down given a long enough timeline. Imgur for an easy example here. Built because all the image hosting sites of the era sucked. Now it's worse than they were.

That feels not stretched but incorrect (and coming as an outsider to the whole Reddit thing):

In your example, PRODUCT is bad or lacking (past expiry, not restocking, etc). With Reddit, PRODUCT is still good, plentiful, and arguably unique. It is the shopping experience that is lacking.

As well, in your example, only the poor-experience method to obtain the product exists. I believe overall message is that good old way STILL exists to obtain good product; and people are indicating they aren't sure even the good product will entice them once new shopping experience is the only way... but it isn't currently.

What it comes down to is whether one will make a principled stand (I want your product, but I do not like your attitude, so I'll leave) or pragmatic approach (I am still getting what I need out of this, I reserve the right to change my mind).

> why do y'all keep browsing it now if you know you'll be getting rid of it as soon as the old ui stops working?

1) I still gain value from it now. Why do you buy an expensive car if you know eventually it will cost more to fix than it is worth and destined for the scrapheap?

2) The more people credibly saying that they will leave reddit when old.reddit disappears, the less likely it is to. Appearing in engagement numbers on old.reddit is clearly telling reddit there's a possibility I'm in that group.

3) If they do remove old.reddit, and then enough of us drop reddit, they may reverse course.

It's often still a useful way to search for information.

I have stopped using it in other contexts, as a casual user. Too painful.

The answer to your edited question is simple: with old.reddit.com or a third-party app on mobile reddit is actually pretty good, especially if you go to the less mainstream subreddits.

Same. I’m relishing the good old days of Reddit with old.reddit.com before it turns into a surveillance hellscape.

Thanks for this, I assumed it was just my computer. Literally 3-4 full seconds to close a thread. Also Ctrl-F search takes forever to open the box and put the cursor in it. They must really want people to use the app or something.

And god forbid you want to use Reddit via the mobile browser. It's laughably bad

I'm pretty sure they want it that way, esp coupled with the endless nagging to get their app.

Jokes on you Reddit. I deliberately stick with the mobile website so that the sheer friction of it limits my Reddit time. Works pretty well.

- No ad blocking on mobile

Thanks, can't believe I forgot this one!

It is the main one, no-adblocking at all or limited, but only DNS based.

I think -greater access to XYZ also needs to be expanded

It's the way FB can track you in the real world, via GPS, have direct access to various sensors, locate people you are in the same room as, etc.

I honestly think that might be worth more than the "no ad blocking", given that FB can use that data to deliver ads on many other people's apps.

The mobile website is also a joke. I don't care it hasn't adopted their latest design language, but they killed the messenger function - and even didn't bother to put a proper message up. Instead you just get a "page not found".

mbasic.facebook.com is like old.reddit.com; crusty and still largely works

Thank you, I didn't know that one but it is much more efficient than m.facebook.com.

I am not sure about 1, at least it has been a long time since I got a dopamine hit from FB. Mostly it seems to be trying to guilt me into liking somebody else post, but most likely somebody just needs to keep some numbers up for internal use.

As for access on mobile, they are far more contained to within app, at least on iOS. On the web they can have their cookie everywhere.

There's a lesson in here about how A/B testing around KPIs that don't account for user experience will eventually drift your app into an unusable mess. You'll hit your metrics every month but every month the site will get worse.

The notifications don't actually work either, I'm not taken to the post/comment they're referring to

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