A new trade and liberal arts school: “College of St. Joseph the Worker”
collegeofstjoseph.com
collegeofstjoseph.com
So, to begin with, high school graduates who go to these schools were predisposed to go to a Catholic liberal arts college. If the College in the article is successful in its mission, these folks will graduate with the degree they wanted, in the surroundings/environment they wanted, but also with solid career possibilities.
People have been swearing up and down for over a decade that the US graduates far more people with bachelors degrees than we "need", and that more parents[0] should be encouraging their kids to learn a trade. This new college is a response to that.
[0] it's seldom "us"; the problem seems to be isolated, in many peoples' minds, to other peoples' kids, and they don't want their own kids to be the ones who learn a trade.
This may turn out to be false: electric cars require almost no maintenance.
Just because we’re getting rid of two large issue generators in the engine/transmission system, doesn’t mean the new machines are bulletproof.
People are going to need their cars fixed.
We have like 3 actually good mechanics locally... most of what they do is related to alignment, suspensions, and consumables that owners don't feel comfortable doing themselves. All three of these still apply to a Tesla, even though they don't need their oil changed, they still have tires, antifreeze, air filters, brakes, etc, and that's still bread and butter work for the local shop.
They would love it if you could fix a vehicle instead of having to replace the entire thing, which is what the OEMs want.
The auto insurance industry knows how to influence car makers, they run the IIHS crash testing rating system, and they could probably also rate cars on repairability. Although, sometimes the safety features make it hard to repair, so there's some tradeoffs there.
Spoiler: it's booming.
that anecdote is only indicative of short term market conditions. It's sort of like saying that trucking jobs are safe because there are truck driver shortages today, ignoring the impending doom of automation in the next few decades.
If it's still decades out, that means it's still reasonable to suggest to people looking for a career. Changing careers at 38 is something a lot of people do, for instance after 20 years in the military.
That's nothing special these days, look at the maintenance schedule of a new Toyota Corolla, except 3 oil changes (and that's only in the US where this is done ridiculously often) there's nothing ICE specific on there...
It's also my experience with my Ram truck.
More impressive is getting from 100k to 147k, for instance.
And people will always need stuff that snuck into shot rotoscoping out. Don’t worry.
I once had a friend comment when we were talking about job security that the first thing to go when a recession hits is dance lessons and Karate classes. At the time it felt like film making was very boom or bust
Allowing people to learn trades while still having “the college experience” I think would fix this.
Lots of people out here who can actually affect the labor market and affect the way student financing works, and instead of hiring people without college degrees and instead of electing people who can reform financing, they just ask students to take a decidedly stupid bet on not getting a degree. It's a silly way to solve the problem.
Relevant:
Also, not everyone has equal potential, and the people who do have it may not want to use it. Having many trade paths, not just elite ones helps our society to match achievement and desire. We certainly need the full spectrum and should encourage the development of more choice.
Second, not everyone is equipped to earn a PhD by significantly advancing our knowledge in a useful field. In fact, the majority of people are not.
Third, the demand for degrees — due to the idea that everyone must go to college, and misguided subsidies to make that happen — already far exceeds what colleges are able to supply while still being achievable by the majority of their customer base.
The result has been degree inflation, cost inflation, and a huge number of useless workers with useless degrees unable to pay off their crippling college debt.
And even if equipped (whatever that means exactly) many simply have no interest in doing so. I assume I could have gotten into a PhD program of some sort had I had my heart set on it. (I did get a couple of Masters--and mostly quite enjoyed them.) But had very little interest in getting a PhD--and find the idea retrospectively even less appealing today.
We're rich enough (for now) to import innovation; we don't need an educated populace. We have a robust military that makes us untouchable geopolitcally.
Do you see how dangerous this kind of bullshit is? Do you see what happens when enough of the people in your country don't value things like degrees and institutions of higher learning? The Athenians fell because of their hubris; not because they valued poetry and art.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pol_Pot
So long as people have ready access to a trade education if they want it, the wages afforded to various professions should be sufficient to handle the distribution of students into the future - clearly, degrees are still desirable enough to the alternative that trade wages will have to go higher before more people start moving into it.
I’m Swedish and this is the ideology Sweden is based on. But I’ve come to see it as backwards, even immoral.
There’s a dream on the left side of the political spectrum that everyone is borne a blank slate that society can fill with whatever it wants. By this logic a rich country can fill their blank slates with wonderfully productive and innovative PhDs, because all it takes is economic resources invested in education.
But that’s simply not true. Highly challenging, creative, innovative thinking doesn’t work that way. Take Srinivasa Ramanujan as an example. With no formal education at all he wrote himself into the history books of mathematics. He’s an extreme example. But consider e.g. the distribution of scores on the Putnam: top scores are around 125, and most years the median is zero(!). Those with a zero score do not in general lack education.
I have one brother that has a mild intellectual handicap and one that has a PhD in medicine. The former makes sandwiches for the kids in a local school and works in a stable. The latter makes equipment for medical research. They are both perfectly happy with their stations in life. But taken to the extreme this ideology means that if they were borne in different countries then their positions may very well be switched. Nobody benefits from this. It would make them both miserable, the sandwiches worse and (probably :P) the medical research equipment less useful.
“The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice.” In this case I think that means every country on earth is going to have some brilliant innovators, and some skilled craftsmen. They’ll need both to stay rich.
This is a bad example; the Putnam is designed as a competition and scored in a way to distinguish the 90th percentile from the 99th, not the 40th from the 50th. The median = 0 just means that the scoring system throws away everything below the median to better score everything above it.
Skilled craftsmen exist because there are things that require a combination of capital in the form of tools and knowledge in the form of training on a small scale. Think about an electronics repair shop: they will pretty much always exist (and should) because as sophistication increases in electronics, when they break they always result in a unique snowflake of a situation that is basically impossible to automate the repair thereof. Repair also requires spare parts and tools that they buy one time and use many times.
In a dynamic economy both will exist, but it doesn't render the argument that we should want more Nvidias and fewer Subways any less valid.
Another example of such a competition is the global innovation economy. If you’re in the 50th percentile of GPU companies then you’re not nVidia, and economically speaking you can just go home.
I understand it sounds harsh, and it is. But it’s the truth.
No, it's aimed at solving a perceived problem of the Catholic working class, that they aren't effectively equipped and harnessed as a political arm of the Church to shape civil society.
The people this is aimed to attract is not people who would otherwise go to traditional liberal arts colleges and universities, Catholic or otherwise.
The top of the home page states their aim, "Learn a trade,earn a degree, and graduate without crippling debt. The College of St. Joseph the Worker forms students into effective and committed members of their communities by teaching them the Catholic intellectual tradition while training them in skilled and dignified labor. We teach our students to think, but also to pray, to love, and to build."
By way of example: "electrician" is one of their 5 trades, and they have no listed electrician faculty.
The trades are not without their issues, however. Many of them are physical jobs. The trades people who have come to work at my house, if they're my age (58) are hobbling and broken. Their hands look like hell. Many are sunburned. Many if not most of them work for tiny businesses that receive virtually no oversight.
Encouraging the trades might make sense in a country with a strong safety net, free health care, better labor laws, stronger unions. The American public figures who are promoting the trades also tend to be doing nothing about those things, or are even opposed to them. I've heard that the trades are a good option in Europe.
This is just my own observation, but the tradesmen I've seen do OK in the US are those that own and run their own business -- even those that have just 1 tradesperson working. Think "Inland Plumbing LLC" run by a guy and his wife out of their house. Yes, many trades are back-breaking work. I have a relative who was a home inspector for years (crawling around in attics, crawl spaces, and roofs all day is exhausting), and he did struggle at times to pay to raise several kids.
Owner-operator electricians and plumbers in particular (and especially those rated for commercial work) can do very well.
You only see the 58yo that comes to unclog your drain. You don't see the 58yo who's name is on the van. You don't see the one who has some comfy job as a building manager for some commercial facility.
I'd be a little wary.
This would seem to be contradictory, if it is interpreted as a result of less demand for post-secondary education. It makes more sense, if it is the result of a dissatisfaction with current US post-secondary institutions.
This is exactly what is going on. Boot camps, income share models, and a lot of newer colleges are simply attempts to disrupt the post-secondary industry. In this case, they have a really interesting table on the Tuition and fees page showing how students come out $171,000 ahead with their apprenticeship program (and it is quite conservative).
It's barely a college, its not accredited AFAICT and seems more like a trade school - outside of the "Catholic Studies Degree" which maybe counts for a "real" BA?
I don't know if, for a new school, accreditation groups retroactively "credit" any degrees that the school has granted since opening.
Do these bits:
The college aims at a revived citizen class of educated workers who can hold the powerful forces of our society to account"
The American separation of religion from public life [...] is an error[...]. This error must be overcome
AFAICT, trade schools also need to be accredited, if they're graduates are able to get into the trades that they are trained in.
I ask because I can't remember what the name of the school was and I haven't been able to locate information even though I tried. Does anyone here remember what I'm talking about? I actually thought j read about it here on HN.
Yes, I tried the search function :)
Eg
University of San Francisco (USF) San Francisco State University (SFSU) University of California San Francisco (UCSF)
Same exact pattern in San Diego too. Probably going to see this pattern permutations across several towns in the future. I think Seattle and towns in Florida May have a similar pattern too. Kind of makes a schools named after individuals a bit more distinctive come to think about it.
I'm interested, and I already have a career. If I pay for a course to join like minded people and have interesting discussions, where's the grift?
The regular state university I attended that left me with a pile of debt and did nothing to get me a career was the grift.. but I figured that out when I was young and dropped out, because it WAS promising a marketable skill, which I taught myself, and wasn't giving me the interesting discussion or insightful reading or anything else I wanted from a general education...
... Which is why I'm interested in the University of Austin...
Aside from a few elite universities, do you? What’s a Bachelors of Arts from Directional State worth?
If they do a decent liberal arts portion of the Catholic studies the students would gain a good grasp on reading, writing, and history with some philosophy too.
Their mission page actually has some interesting parts about their view of the dignity of manual trades and labor: https://www.collegeofstjoseph.com/mission-and-vision
To be honest many employers will also see “BA” and “college” and not look further since they don’t actually care; it’s just a filtering mechanism.
A poor kid who wants to be successful is much more valuable than some legacy admission.
If they grift harder than Northwestern, and leave students in 2x more debt than a decent school, well, then I guess it's maybe a grift.
I would take their statements at face value.
I suggest they are absolutely trying to do what they state they are trying to do.
That said ... it's obviously a bit of a risk.
You very often get something that has little to no value in itself, along with a crushing pile of debt.
That makes it worse honestly. You can go hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt getting a BA in the humanities from a university whose tuition is increasing at 2x inflation, but society encourages that choice by giving the BA outsized value in unlocking professions like "salesman" and "firefighter." Meanwhile people are so under the weight of their debt that addressing it is a political issue at the national level, but so far the leading proposal is a one-time debt forgiveness package, which does nothing to address the structural issue.
Here we have a new college that is expressly trying to reduce costs substantially, while offering practical skills in in-demand trades. That sounds like a welcome correction to me. The idea that it is a "grift" only makes sense in an environment where society has made "accredited BA" the arbitrary entrance criteria into the professional class.
The whole thing feels either like something is wrong or it is a sting by ICE. I remember them running one outside Detroit in the past couple years.
I really wish that someone will mix a vocational robotics certificate with an actual robotic engineering degree. I just want to see the interaction. I dearly wish the result of the technicians having to build something designed by the engineering degree.
Doesn't the school have to open first, and then get accredited later? Or is it possible to be accredited from day one?
They will if they want to claim tax credits, take out a loan to pay for the education, gain discounts on insurance, continue their education later, and so on.
One wonders if the accreditation agencies are neutral, or if they're going to say "well, you're not a real school, so we're not going to accredit you."
1. Facilities required for accreditation (library, labs, offices, etc)
2. Degree programs and learning objectives (e.g. Bachelors of Computer Science and a list of competencies said degree asserts)
3. Processes and procedures, particularly around course management and curriculum. A big part of this is mapping out your listed degree requirements to classes that either provide those competencies or provide building blocks required for those competencies. E.g. Calc -> Lambda Calc -> Category Theory to provide a lot of fundamental math skills for a proposed CS curriculum.
EDIT: found them—the Western Association of Schools and Colleges is the organization that performs accreditations of colleges in California: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Association_of_Schoo...
Saying "you're not a real school, so we're not going to accredit you" is literally the sole job of an accreditation agency. Well, that and figuring out how to define a "real school".
Yes, there are issues of Separation of Church and State, yes, the current SCOTUS is a scary in terms of their willingness to bend the constitution ...
... but it's also given that our colleges are by some measures a grift, that communitarian values may not be directly taught as many would like, that far-left ideologues dominate the social and political language, and that many people would like their colleges to at least have some kind of Religious Affiliation though maybe not outright 'Religious School'.
This school seems to be really heavy on the 'Catholicism', but I can see something like it where there aren't any 'religious studies' directly, but rather with some affiliation, as resonating quite a lot with people.
Public universities still have chaplains of various faiths/creeds. There's no problem with that (for now). There is also no issue with student-run clubs affiliated with a given religion, and they're likely still eligible to receive the same type of funding any other club is. The issue is if there is _only_ one faith/creed represented/forced at a public school (and even then, some public university sports teams historically get away with only having a chaplain of one faith [1]).
[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2015/08/21...
And frankly, in the US, there is an 'Evangelical' aspect which is weirdly different from more mainstream religions i.e. Jews and Catholics probably have more in common than Evangelicals and Catholics - at least culturally. Anglicans and most Protestants go on the Jewish/Catholic side. Even Islam.
A Chapel, a Chaplain, maybe a few religious courses, some influence by the clergy with the school itself, some stricter rules for dorms (i.e. not co-ed etc..) that kind of stuff is one thing ...
... but when everything is 'Gospel Music Only' in the band, 'J for Jesus Cheers', and 'Jesus Revival Rally' before the big game, '4pm Prayer Time', etc. etc.. - it's kind of a another dimension of religiosity entirely. Those kids would be exposed to more integrated religiosity than many of the students at seminary-origin Universities of times past. Oxford Students from hundreds of years ago would think all of that a bit nutty.
I suggest there might be a distinction between: 'Goes to Church on Sunday' and 'Everything is Jesus, Hooray!' kinds of affiliations.
The later, impossible for public schools, the former, possibly.
Yes, some affiliations treat the religion as kind of embarrassing or don’t actually demand anything of their adherents that would be even mildly embarrassing with atheist/agnostic friends. Think Reform Judaism/Unitarian Universalism/ Episcopalianism. Others believe their religion means something.
> The later, impossible for public schools, the former, possibly.
This is actually exactly how the previous dispensation of no religion in public life, judicially started in the US. The Protestants wanted to be able to discriminate against Catholics like you want to be able to discriminate against religions that believe something in tension with the power of the state.
I think you may be confusing finding one's religion to be meaningful with some kind of need to broadcast it. I feel every instant of my life to be infused by my faith, yet because it is personal and does require me to testify outwardly about it, it doesn't usually make me want to discuss it with others. You don't get to judge whether it means something to me or not...
By you, not by me
> If you every instant of your life is infused by your faith how does it show?
It shows somewhat because I take actions that are in accordance with my faith, but there's no big "tell", it's not particularly easy to distinguish from generally trying to be a good person.
Why does faith have to cause embarrassment or discomfort in front of others, or even be shown to others, in order to "matter"? That might apply to evangelist faith or faiths placing emphasis on proselytism, but does not apply to every faith.
I’m not sure why you think the fact that “good” private universities originated as (and still operate) seminaries has any bearing on what is legal for public institutions like Community Colleges under the US Constitution and the jurisprudence applying the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment and the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment.
Christmas/Easter holidays, 'In God We Trust' on every dollar bill, 'National Prayer Breakfast', Army Chaplains, modern/recent US Presidents (aka Jimmy Carter) teaching Sunday School in the White House etc.. 'Separation of Church and State' is almost an academic construct in a nation or culture in which faith (or even just religion) plays a major roles in people's lives.
Specifically with respect to education, I think many people think of 'University' as a fundamentally secular institution, when really it's not.
Frankly, the general orientation of 'Let's not have a religious state, and our institutions should not be religious' is a really good idea, however, it turns into a hairy mess at the margins.
In Ontario, Canada, about 40% of the 'Public Schools' (aka fully publicly funded) are actually Catholic. They are 'open to anyone' and it's not 'Jesus Songs All Day' kind of thing, rather, they have 'Christmas Concert' where they are allowed to sing Christmas Carols, whereas the regular Public Schools have 'Seasonal Concerts' with 'Wintertime Songs' as an example of some of the 'notable differences', by that I mean, the 'Catholic Schools' are not hugely religiously infused.
I bring this up because it's one of the oddest and most paradoxical arrangements in modern secular governance with respect to education. It's only controversial in the academic sense, i.e. something for people to argue about, in practice, it's the most 'normal' thing one could imagine. If one were to suggest this arrangement for a US state, all hell would break loose. Pun intended. Of course, the US is a different place than Canada. (FYI I'm not Catholic).
The USA isn’t France. It’s freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. The US Federal government is forbidden to establish a religion but the states are free to do so.
New Hampshire had a state church until 1877.
At the federal level, it's been both since the beginning; freedom of religion under the free exercise clause, and freedom from religion under the establishment clause, both of the First Amendment. Just like the rest of the First Amendment, and much (but not all) of the rest of the Bill of Rights, that's been held to be incorporated against the states under the 14th Amendment.
> New Hampshire had a state church until 1877.
Very shortly after the 14th Amendment was ratified in 1868 and before the Court had heard and ruled on the cases in which it found the First Amendment rights to be fundamental rights inherent in the concept of ordered liberty incorporated against the states by the 14th Amendment. The states are not free to impose a state church any more than they are to ban all religious expression, for the same Constitutional reason, and they are no more free to do either under the 14th Amendment than the federal government is to given the First.
> Would you say this about an institution affiliated with any other religion?
Yes, if it overtly sought the same thing but for a different religion.
Probably, but generally not one consistent way as the central goal of the degree program.
> Apparently you happen to have been indoctrinated into the prevailing ideology of political Liberalism, which holds that Church and State should have no public interaction whatsoever.
To the extent that may be true or false, it has no bearing on the descriptive statements about the upthread claim that the equivalent of what this college provides is available from local community colleges in the US, which is not a (positive or negative) normative claim about the desirability of the program offered.
> There's nothing unusual about a Catholic institution teaching that Catholicism is true
The central focus of this institution’s program is objectively unusual among Catholic higher education institutions in the US, though it may be less unusual for the civic orientation part of it to be an included focus in other institutions.
But, in any case whether it is unusual for Catholic institutions is as immaterial as whether or not it is desirable, this subthread is about the claim that the same is available from public community colleges in the US, which is not only very much not the case, but would actually be prohibited by the interpretation of the First and Fourteenth Amendments that has been consistently applied since the 1940s.
They’re not on the Ohio Department of Higher Education’s authorized list. They make no mention on their website of even seeking authorization. They’re not clearly identifying themselves as a “Bible College” to take advantage of that loophole.
“Want to transfer to the local land grant college? Get your credits here!”
“Want to earn a certificate IT security? Take your courses here!
“Want to earn your GED? Take the courses and the test here!
Honestly, now that I think of it, the reason this college appeals to me is because of how focused they are. They have a very specific goal.
“A very specific goal” is something most colleges lack, so it’s not fair to pick in community colleges.
For core undergrad prereq classes in Illinois, CC credits are as good as flagship credits. If you've got a physics prereq, take it at a CC, pay less for it, and probably get better instruction --- that's the experience my kids had.
If you need a GED, get your GED. Sounds pretty great!
Need a welding certification? The CC has the facilities and instructors.
It'd be one thing if they did a poor job at all (or any) of these things. But from what I can tell, they mostly do an excellent job at all these things.
Every student took exactly the same classes.
The level of support was amazing!
All of the students were able to help each other, because they all had the same courses,
By the time I started a class, I’d heard a dozen stories about what we learn and do.
And then when I was in my senior year, I spent lots of time mentoring the incoming students on what to expect.
I don’t think you can realistically do so many things. Not well anyway.
We need more specialized schools.
It sounds a little like 1930 New York City high school. My grandfather taught Latin and Greek in the HS in New York, retiring in the early 60’s. That might have been the golden age of NYC public schools, but they seemingly were able to teach practical things like typing, bookkeeping and some industrial arts as well as a lot of history, literature and culture.
By comparison, Triton College, my nearest community college, offers certifications in 3 of the 5 trades on this list. City Colleges of Chicago offer all 5. For each trade, their certification is recognized, and each trade program has a listed catalog of required and optional courses, with faculty.
Triton costs $11k (~$5k after aid). This "Catholic" college (it is unaffiliated with the church) costs $15k --- and doesn't issue a certification in 1 or 2 years (I don't think it offers one at all; you get a "Catholic studies" degree, which I doubt many plumbing companies are looking for).
This doesn't sound like an amazing deal to me. It sounds like something else.
On the scam side, their church affiliation only needs approval at a fairly low level, as the Church isn't really that monolithic, it's very much a federation in which things as different as liberation theology, jesuitism, cults of saints, and even opus dei can co-exist under the same umbrella. If the objection were that this school is mainly a conservative ideological training ground, I would agree that's an accurate assessment, but I didn't get the impression that was hidden from sight, so I didn't think we needed to be oblique about characterizing it.
They don't say, "welcome to our unaccredited reactionary conservative stochastic terror indoctrination centre" because they don't define themselves in terms from critical theories that originate from (to them) an alien worldivew. I'd agree it's the something-else you are referring to, but that's what makes it interesting.
Any real world examples of this? Besides the Thiel fund of course, which is a ideological vanity project.
But they seem to be going down the route of trying to get accredited. IMO no one cares about any of that except other academics, businesses only care about talent and intelligence.
If there was solid evidence of a pipeline towards big tech, then maybe? I went to K-State which is accredited and yet no big tech recruits from there. The only way I got into the big tech game was starting a company in the mid-west and having CTO on my resume.
If it was really true that nothing mattered except for quality, there'd hardly be a need for universities at all, because students could buy books and self-teach or hire tutors. Nonetheless, that is almost never done, because outward signs like accreditation matter a lot.
Also, seriously, Waterloo is one one of the most prominent schools? Most Americans don’t know it exists, never mind have an opinion on how prestigious it is. I know it has a fantastic CS programme, with coop every second semester and that is the sum total of my knowledge. That’s a lot more than most people know.
Rich people have been putting their names on institutions of higher learning for some time.
There's other colleges named after whomever, anybody, and they don't go anywhere. There's a lot of cooperation required, a lot of people refusing to let each and every other one of them down.
"... U.S. jurisdictions where the use of higher education credentials from diploma mills and unaccredited schools is explicitly illegal or legally restricted include Illinois, Indiana, Maine, Michigan, Missouri, Nevada, New Jersey, North Dakota, Oregon, South Dakota, Texas, Virginia, and Washington. Many other states are also considering restrictions on unaccredited degree use in order to help prevent fraud. ..." -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diploma_mills_in_the_United_St...
"... (2) A person is guilty of knowingly using a false academic credential if the person knowingly uses a false academic credential or falsely claims to have a credential issued by an institution of higher education that is accredited by an accrediting association recognized as such by rule of the student achievement council:
(a) In a written or oral advertisement or other promotion of a business; or
(b) With the intent to:
(i) Obtain employment;
(ii) Obtain a license or certificate to practice a trade, profession, or occupation;
(iii) Obtain a promotion, compensation or other benefit, or an increase in compensation or other benefit, in employment or in the practice of a trade, profession, or occupation;
(iv) Obtain admission to an educational program in this state; or
(v) Gain a position in government with authority over another person, regardless of whether the person receives compensation for the position.
...
(4) Issuing a false academic credential is a class C felony.
(5) Knowingly using a false academic credential is a gross misdemeanor."
Seems doubtful that it gets prosecuted much though.
It defines how one might illegally use one, or issue one, or falsely claim to have a real qualification, but I don't see a definition of a false credential.
It sounds like a false credential falsely claims to be accredited (ie. if I were to issue degrees from Harvard), which is not what the OP institution is doing, so this discussion is possibly moot.
Outside of HN and the SV bubble, accreditation really matters.
College enabled me to talk fancier during that time.
For those kind of jobs this is complete waste of money.
Some countries are very stringent about accredited qualifications for certain trades.
We’re out there. Really doesn’t matter on the specific job, all I care is, can you do it, and will you be a distraction?
[0] https://www.freecodecamp.org/news/free-accredited-bachelors-...
But who is checking? I’ve never asked myself if someone’s degree is accredited. I wouldn’t even know how to check if I cared.
Accreditation may matter for immigration (some places give extra points to people with degrees), possibly student loans, and things like that.
But… why? What do you then do with information? Reject people if their college isn’t accredited? Why?
Even if it wasn't comment policy - when you're reviewing the resumes of Jr engineers who have literary zero work experience who do you interview/hire - the guy with the mail-order "degree" or the guy who has an accredited degree?
But why? Lol what does it achieve? What’s the point?
> when you're reviewing the resumes of Jr engineers who have literary zero work experience
Maybe look at what they can do not where they learned it? How do you evaluate self-taught and people with no degrees? Does no degree beat non-accredited or not?
And here’s another question - why do you trust the accreditors? What do they know that colleges don’t? How do you evaluate an accreditor?
If there's no point in anything and nothing is ever achieved then why does anyone spend time and money on getting an education and including it in their resume? Maybe there is a point and something is achieved after all.
EDIT: >How do you evaluate self-taught and people with no degrees?
I don't, I literally just told you company policy is Jr candidates must have an accredited degree.
I have no idea what nonsense you're rambling on about. The question was who is checking degree accreditation and that's what I answered.
> why does anyone spend time and money on getting an education and including it in their resume?
The point is the education - not the accreditation.
For trade school, it probably does not matter at all.
An incredibly ignorant and uneducated comment that’s unnecessarily dismissive.
It took two seconds to confirm on their website that your comment is wrong. Not all their faculty is theology
Sounds like exactly the qualifications I'd want for an expensive HVAC certification...
Not sure sure about those missing 12 years, tho.;-|
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unknown_years_of_Jesus#New_Tes...
That period is what they're referring to by "most of the years of his life".