Show HN: Evryca – fractal thinking tool to brainstorm and organize thoughts | Hacker News Reader

Show HN: Evryca – fractal thinking tool to brainstorm and organize thoughts

evryca.com

130 pointsefojs36 comments

Made a tool to organize thoughts. Actually it is a mind tree, but in a more web-friendly form.

It has pivoted from what I originally started building at evryca.com.

Some years ago I got the idea of fractal conversation, instead of old-school tree/ladder-like comments. I wanted to see only comments related to the current level.

I started making "something" with fractal comments. This "something" was a project discussion platform. But it turned out that even I myself don't use it, and the idea of fractal comments stuck there unused.

And recently it dawned on me that it may be a conversation with yourself — thinking, brainstorming, taking notes, writing. So made this kind of cork/whiteboard, where one can dive into the subject and, being in the flow, write and see only related notes and rearrange them later.

I'm trying to make it flawless and add keyboard shortcuts where it's possible (Ctr+Enter to submit idea, drag-and-drop to rearrange, Esc to jump level up).

So finally I've made a tool that I use myself and will update it gradually (sorting, touch devices, ex/import (json, text), boards, more navigation with keyboard and other stuff, and login).

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I like the simplicity of your tool as well as the fact that no login is required to use it (although I would appreciate a backup option like saving the localStorage data as a single text file and being able to load it back).

A few suggestions about the UI:

Cards have no visual cue that they are stacked (I think this came up in some other replies here), so it is impossible to tell how much information can be found underneath. With books, for example, you can tell by their thickness roughly how many pages you can expect. But a general problem with digital content is that its dimensions can be infinite, especially if it is revealed/concealed interactively in a fractal-like manner as it is in your tool.

Personally, I would feel overwhelmed quickly after taking multiple nested notes, especially if I wanted to look up a piece of information that is hidden deep inside or if I wanted to reorganize my notes (although I think this is not possible yet in your app?).

I like that you made a breadcrumb-like navigation back to the parents - this helps a lot with orientation. But maybe also consider a more global navigation and a search tool to move more quickly between top-level notes and find notes that are deeply nested.

I would also adjust the font-size dependent on the amount of text in a card. If you enter a lot of text, cards quickly become too cumbersome to read.

I also think the parent card/header(?) should be differentiated much more against its child cards. I became a bit confused about which cards are clickable and which are not.

Nonetheless, I always appreciate people who build tools that they find useful for themself and share them with others, especially if they help with thinking.

Thank you for you time! Glad you liked it)

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> backup option

Yes, it's one of main priorities for me.

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> impossible to tell how much information can be found underneath

"underneath" == "children" of card you going to click, isn't it? Yes, thank you. Didn't get this point from other comments (thought about "breadcrumb" navigation, facepalm.jpg). Thank you for emphasizing it. Got it. Nice example with books. I plan to add at least the number of children, but maybe will find other more elegant ways.

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> I wanted to look up a piece of information that is hidden deep inside or if I wanted to reorganize my notes

Yes, good point. For sure there are different modes of thinking: when you write/brainstorm, read what you've got, and work with it/rearrange/edit. So I want to try and add separate modes of interaction to help with it. For sure "read mode" — compiled text (of current branch, or entire board, when watching from root).

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> global navigation and a search tool

Yes. Search for sure, navigation between boards, clipboard to move stacks around.

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> font-size dependent on the amount of text in a card.

This is a slippery road leading to messy/noisy situation. I tried this approach, not in this project, but earlier in my UX/UI career. I know what you mean — cards can (will) hold a lot of text. I plan to truncate text with ellipses. Will try to find some balanced solution. But yes. Good point.

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> parent card/header(?) should be differentiated much more against its child cards

Hm. Will think about it. Thanks.

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Thank you again for your time and thorough notes!

I currently use Noteself, a modification of tiddlywiki, for this kind of thing. I really like the concept you've created, but my paranoia / concern is that I can't save / copy / transport the thought-fractal I've created.

Noteself saves its status within the browsers local storage as well, but you can save it as an HTML file to make it transportable between browsers, computers, devices.

I'm constantly shifting between work and personal devices and need the seamless transition - which would imply either self-hosting or 'login required' model, which may not fit your roadmap (although you do mention 'login' above, and also you mention adding im/export). Understand it's in development, however, and respect for the stage you've gotten it to so far. Good work!

Thank you for taking time to check it and for support.

Glad you liked it.

> paranoia / concern is that I can't save / copy / transport the thought-fractal I've created

Yes, it is a great concern and I'm going to add ex/import ASAP.

And yes, accounts and server storage will allow smooth transition between devices. But it's not yet in my priority — ex/import first.

Also adding Noteself to my collection)

I'm confused by your use of "fractal", could you expand a little bit on how your using that word in context here?

Hm. Interesting. Confusion means you had some expectations. Could you please share those first? What did you expect to see after reading "fractal thinking tool"?

I think it needs a better visual representation of the levels. I personally find the visual representation currently utilized to represent the fractal structure, incomprehensible.

Thank you. Please, help me understand you better.

Does "levels" mean "depth"? To give the feel how deep in the subject you are?

Don't stacked "parents" give that feel?

It doesn't show if a card is stacked or not.

Got it, yes, I see now. Will think about it. Thank you!

> Does "levels" mean "depth"? To give the feel how deep in the subject you are?

Yes! Level means depth.

> Don't stacked "parents" give that feel?

No! The stack doesn't give me that feel, because visually, it doesn't look like a stack. My brain perceives a series of plain text lines as a block of information. There's a reason we add symbols (numbers, discs) to checklists. We want them differentiated from normal text blocks. Of course you don't necessarily need to use symbols, you could also make use of relative positioning (between levels) or color (varying the intensity of the same color as you move up and down the levels, or use a color theme), etc.

Regards!

Got it. Thank you very much!

You might want to checkout the way 'Thebrain' 1) can show related thoughts using layers of transparency. Our brain reads these indirectly and helps providing contexts.

1) https://www.thebrain.com/

* not affiliated in any way

Oh! The Brain. Remember it since like end of 90s I guess) Glad they are still in the game.

Will check closer that transparency feature you talk about.

Thank you!

I think fractal designs are the way to go! My favorite notetaking app is Workflowy which does this exact thing with nested lists, and it supports boards too! One thing I would suggest is that it needs to be possible to "peek" at lower levels; it's a bit jarring to drop a card on another card and have it completely disappear. It's not immediately obvious that the card actually went "inside" the right one.

Thank you, yes fractals rule the world (literally?). Seen Workflowy, didn't use it, but it looks rather easy to use. And final text is readable. It's important.

I plan to add view/export of board as a text, so it can be read as a whole.

This is really cool, well done. The fractal concept has always been helpful to me.

I made a similar iPad app to this idea a while ago, called Mindscope. Kind of a fractal whiteboard / Workflowy meets Scapple. http://www.mindscopeapp.com

Always wished I had the time to make a new version some day…

Yes, fractals seem like is how we (nature?) think. Will check yours later

Looks cool. Seems a little similar to https://kinopio.club/

Hm. Interesting. Thank you. Will add to my collection of fractal apps.

Hi creator of kinopio here, I tried Evryca out and I like what you’re making, and I think your roadmap makes sense - keep up the great work :)

) Hi! Thank you very much for support! And glad you like it.

Tried a bit kinopio and guess it can replace me Excalidraw in some cases (I use it as whiteboard). Just need to get used to UX a bit.

Looks like my approach does not replace yours visual whiteboard/map-like, they solve a bit different tasks.

Cool, I think) that it can coexist

It hijacks the back button.

I have a similar side project, which I started to learn kotlin.js: http://the.do.zone

My goal is to get some kind of seamless webrtc based sync going, both for multi-device use and also, maybe, for collaborative editing. Firmly committed to data not hitting any servers.

Hm. Sounds interesting. Will check later. Afk atm

Seems that people interested in this would also like [TreeSheets](https://strlen.com/treesheets/)

I like the fact that one of the features is “flawless”… especially since the description below refers to keyboard shortcuts.

Thank you for your comment.

English is not my native language. And I don't get if your comment is sarcasm)

My intention of using word "flawless" was to emphasize that one, being in the flow, can write thoughts not being interrupted by need to use mouse (shortcuts should help here).

Maybe I should use another word here... Could you please advise?

BTW are keyboard shortcuts considered as a "flaw"?

Really cool! I liked the "endless nesting" aspect of it, makes it feel different from a simple wiki experience.

Thank you! Yes, I also like its endlessness. Gives a feeling of freedom

Reminds me of the excellent https://museapp.com

Thank you. Yes. Nested boards are all around) Another item to my collection.

So basically, poor man's Nototo?

Ha. Nice. Thank you. Never seen this one, but seen some other visual fractal notebook/s. Some, for sure, may find it (zooming map) more convenient and fun than navigating text. I, personally, don't feel it's web/screen friendly. Maybe for some VR it could work much better. Would be cool to try.

Nice!

Thank you! Glad you liked it)

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