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schnebbau

> The money they need pay bills and keep them afloat if and until they get new employment.

How will these people that were making well into six figures possibly survive?

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People tend to spend money in relativity to what they earn.

https://thehill.com/changing-america/resilience/smart-cities...

The same forces that encourage rampant consumerism in people who can't afford it, do it to people who can afford it - and then suddenly discover that they can't.

"lifestyle creep"

Now go look at the cost of a home or apartment in San Francisco or nearby towns. I'll wait...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2022/03/05/twitter-em...

I guess they'll have to lower their cost of living like the rest of us?

Moving is not cheap. Short of moving, lowering your cost of living in SF is going to be absurdly hard (especially while dealing with the mental fallout of being laid off).

I don't understand the hate towards high cost of living areas. Making a few $100k in a HCOL area is similar to making $100k in a LCOL area. You don't live like a king if both your income AND expenses are higher.

Both people in this example have a lot more in common than I'm reading into from your comments.

> I don't understand the hate towards high cost of living areas.

It's all the whining. These folks are privileged to have options, choose to live in certain areas, and enjoy the benefits (higher pay, more jobs if they get laid off, amenities, etc.) of those choices. But they still complain.

I honestly don't get the psychology. Is it some sort of defense mechanism for folks who don't want to admit they're the elites that they decry? Rent costs an insane amount in SF—and its driving out long time residents and minorities—because Facebook engineers make $500k/year. It's not "billionaires"--how many houses can Zuck buy? It’s the tens of thousands of rank-and-file employees making 5x the US median household income.

I agree that some, not all, wages in HCOL areas are very bloated. That's not always the case though and I imagine it's not the case for HR groups within Twitter.

> $100k in a LCOL area

OK, but it's very easy to live comfortably on $100k in a LCOL area. The idea that these people have no fat in their budgets is risible. Put me in charge of the books and I promise they'll be in tip-top shape in 6 months. But they'll hate me, because a lot of stuff they've been keeping in the "needs" bucket is gonna find its way into the "wants" pile in a hurry.

If you don't have an emergency fund, then you cannot afford to eat out. You cannot afford two cars. The one car you have better be a used Hyundai. You can't afford to take a vacation. You can't afford those violin lessons. Hell, you can't even afford Hulu or Netflix. Go for a quiet walk and gather your thoughts toward accumulating an emergency fund, because if you don't have one, then you cannot afford any of that stuff.

In all fairness, this applies across the board. I agree with you on financial responsibility residing with the individual.

$100k in a LCOL or $300k in a HCOL is sufficient to have an emergency fund. And in the same way that layoffs in a LCOL will hurt, it hurts in HCOL as well.

I just think that the lifestyle perception that some have of people in HCOL making $300k is very inaccurate. It's not nearly as extravagant as you might think.

Well, I have news for you: 100K in a LCOL is a type of salary that pretty much nobody in the US, let alone the rest of the world earns. It's an elite salary. The absolute top tier for employees worldwide.

It's not hate, it's trying to get people to understand that they are elite and privileged.

That's not true. Plenty of trades, nurses and other medical professionals, etc. make a over $100k/yr. Here's a listing I was looking at the other day: Lineman with a 4-day workweek at ~$110k/yr in Newport, Oregon (populatioon 10k) - https://www.governmentjobs.com/careers/cencoast/jobs/3582995...

Those are...ELITE. How hard is it to understand that word?

Having lived in both, the thing that got me is that if you're left with 20% after you've paid for everything that month.. that's an awful lot more left over in a HCOL area.

But then everything seems geared towards parting you from that remaining 20% wherever you live :)

I do feel for those laid off, not everyone being laid off will have managed to maneuver themselves into the ideal position over their time at Twitter.

Agree. I think money is sort of like a house. No matter how large or how much, it'll get filled or used.

Discipline in both will go a long way in not having a big house full of unused rooms and money that's not wasted.

Is SF the only city in the US? What stops them from moving to another part of the country? I moved across the globe, twice for the last 12 months, with my family. It’s definitely doable.

> What stops them from moving to another part of the country?

Cost. Paying early termination on your rental contract. Paying to move. First, last, and a cleaning deposit at your new place. Stocking a new place with perishables. An easy 3+ grand to move to an inexpensive town.

Loss of salary/job opportunities. You won't have the same job opportunities, nor salary ranges, if you live in a less expensive part of the country, since your new pay will be based off your peers in your physical location, not your last salary in SF.

> You won't have the same job opportunities, nor salary ranges, if you live in a less expensive part of the country

So they will have to downgrade from an extremely privileged position to just highly privileged position. Should we open some fundraiser so they can keep their expensive lifestyle even after layoffs?

Unemployed recruiting coordinator or sourcer during a possible recession, is not what I would call highly privileged..

I believe the proposal on the table was that Twitter should give them permission to sell the stock they rightfully earned, not that anyone else should fund them. The blackout on stock sales suck.

> An easy 3+ grand to move to an inexpensive town.

I think 3 grand is probably an underestimate for any significant move. It cost me $1k to move ~2.5 miles across town the last time I moved.

I've moved across the nation with my thumb out, $20, and a tarp to tie across some trees to sleep under. It's doable on way less than $1k.

Of course it is, if you're not taking anything with you. I moved thousands of miles for $0 once, because everything I was taking fit in a suitcase that I already owned, and my flight was paid for by the company I was moving to work for. I'm talking about people who have to move apartments, and possibly families. You aren't doing that for $20.

Only 16% of SF is families with children, so that's not really representative of someone living there.

That's a valid objection to two whole words of my comment. On the flip side, 99% of SF is people who live in homes. Most of those people will have more than a backpack's worth of stuff to move.

Unless you're moving to the bush in Alaska or the desert in Namibia or something, or have some weird medical issue that requires you to bring some large special life-saving item with you for the journey, then you're in the 99% that can survive just fine selling your stuff where you are and then buying necessities when you arrive. I said doable, not that you could do it while keeping grandma's heirloom piano.

Well, I sold almost everything I had before the move. It was an interesting experience. I had 4 bags that I could afford to bring along, and at least twice more of the amount of things that I wanted to keep.

What % of Twitter? (not being facetious, honest question)

It cost me $3000+ to move <1 mile in SF. This didn’t include any unpacking etc. $320/hr for 4 people, 10 hours plus tip. Guys worked super fast but being on a top floor of a Victorian with tight stairways and multiple beds and couches is a lot of work.

I've done both, decades ago one of my college friends had the theory that, "If it doesn't fit in your car you don't own it". Moving cost was absolutely determined by the price of gasoline.

And I've spent what, $5,000 to send a couple pieces of furniture across the country for a move because they weren't replaceable, and I had the money.

I did all of this in 2020 after the layoffs in the company I used to work for. It’s not the end of the world, it’s doable. In my case, I couldn’t leave the country where I lived, I didn’t have the residency there and it wasn’t possible to get back home, because my home country closed the borders. I spent 3-4 months renewing temporary visa, having 2 year lease contract ahead and no job to cover the expenses. I managed to get a job, then another one, then return back home, then get an offer and fly to another country once again. My salary was substantially lower than theirs, but it somehow didn’t have a critical impact on my savings. I managed to get both of my cats through all of this, it wasn’t cheap as well. I think these guys are going to be fine, that’s my point.

Often visas - either that they cannot get visas to live or work in a different country, or because leaving the US would cause them to abandon potentially decades of progress towards permanent residency.

Don't need a visa for Svalbard. Checkmate!

I've been actually - considered staying - and if you haven't I'd highly recommend it. Especially a day trip up to Pyramiden. While you do not need a visa to stay in Svalbard forever, you do need a Schengen visa to get there which not everyone can obtain!

Those poor people who bought a $1.5M home? What will they ever do to survive?

$30,000 a year for an apartment in San Fran. If you can't swing that on your $250k income it's not Twitter's fault

$40k is probably a more accurate median. Still, after taxes, that should leave ~$80k money to live on/save beyond rent concerns.

40k is accurate if you only need one bedroom. Now try being the breadwinner for 4 people.

I don’t see the motivation of raising a family and paying such a high rent in SF, particularly when Twitter has stated just about all their employees can work remote.

I agree. That's why people are leaving in droves.

With the Elon cloud that statement doesn't really mean anything.

A nice (but not luxury) 2BR place, or a modest 3BR place, within 60 minutes of SF (excluding Central/Deep East Oakland) can easily be $50k/year if you moved in within last 3 years.

That’s probably close to the average (4k/mo).

If you need 3BRs in SF, you probably have 2 incomes.

Diversification?

https://www.tiktok.com/@lukecapasso/video/711027937017391031...

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