Hacker News Reader

Comment by keiferski | Hacker News Reader

I think this is mostly a good idea. I’ve been to Venice a few times and the best trip was in the middle of February, when the rain and cold scared away summer crowds.

However, I do wish that the city managed to retain some of its former glory as a commercial center. It must have been an incredible place in the 13th and 14th centuries, long before tourism economics turned it into a place to visit and not a place to live.

View on HN

Amsterdam stopped being a place to live two decades ago. I remember wanting to leave my house there and could not because of the crowds right outside my door and ended up pretty much locked in. It's the day I decided that I'm done with the city I was born in. If you take out the drunks the drugs and the tourists (and associated crime) house prices will drop back to something normal (10000 euros / square meter right now) and it might become a livable city again.

I live and grew up around the Nieuwmarkt, and completely disagree with this take. Sure, it is expensive, and sure, there are quite some tourists, but it is extremely liveable and nowhere near Venice levels.

Compared to Almere it's great... but there are many options besides Amsterdam that don't come with all the drawbacks, and cheaper to boot, especially if you have kids.

If you're single and like nightlife then I can see the draw, but otherwise it no longer is for me. But it's fine, I live 20 minutes away (Baarn) and have the advantages when I need them without the disadvantages.

Amsterdam seems to have gotten better thanks to the pandemic. I go there on a regular basis to visit relatives with kids so I mostly visit parks and playgrounds and the drastic reduction of "bachelor party" type of tourists (coming for alcohol, drugs and prostitutes) has made the city a lot more pleasant to wander around.

Residents seem to have come to the same realization as it looks like they are going to outlaw selling drugs to tourists and move the red light district out of the city.

That being said, as long as there is still the museum/culture tourism and the many wealthy expatriates coming for the quality of life, I do not see the prices dropping back enough to make a difference for regular/local people.

Yes, I've heard more people say that the pandemic has helped make Amsterdam more liveable. But the same kind of backlash that is hitting Venice might happen there too. Essentially the pandemic has given us a short term window on alternative modes and some of those will hopefully stick (such as: work from home and a general reluctance to travel).

Agreed on the wealthy expats and that the locals will likely not return to the inner city. There just is too much money involved. I grew up all over Amsterdam and checked the prices for each of the places where I lived (that info is public) and was quite shocked to see that in spite of being fairly well off I probably could only afford the smallest (a 55 square meter apartment on Ferdinand Bol straat).

I am curious how you would end up in a situation where you wouldn't be able to open a door due to masses of bodies pressed against your door. Does your home open up directly onto a sidewalk?

Cannot say about Amsterdam, but this is a street in the center of Florence around lunch time (and yes "normal" residents live in it):

https://corrierefiorentino.corriere.it/methode_image/2020/06...

There was quite a bit of discussions last year when an ambulance called for a resident emergency took some 15 minutes to drive 100-150 meters to get to the patient.

The center of Amsterdam is usually be considerably busier than that. And on festival days you can walk across the heads, but let's ignore those because they are clearly outliers.

Tourists only visit a pretty small part of the city. If you start at Amsterdam CS and cycle north, east or west for 10min you'll be in a tourist free neighborhood. Only southbound you'll have to cycle around 20min.

I spent a few weeks one January staying with friends who live there, many years ago. Winter is definitely the best time to visit Venice. It's an unforgettable atmosphere walking around at night, with a bit of mist above the canals and hardly anyone around. There is still a decently-sized resident population, mostly not noticed by the tourists, and even in summer you don't have to go far from the most popular areas to find areas, bars and restaurants that are mostly missed by the cruise ship hordes.

I do worry that selling tickets basically legitimises the cruise ship hordes (and their behaviour, which isn't always very sociable) while perhaps discouraging casual independent travelers.

For anyone reading this and thinking of planning a trip to Venice in February, be aware that the Carnival often is in February and that's one of the busiest times...

> It must have been an incredible place in the 13th and 14th centuries, long before tourism economics turned it into a place to visit and not a place to live.

Trade routes and power centers were so different then, a different world. It likely will never reach that level of prosperity through non-tourism based economy.

In a way, it’s probably for the best. Italy doesn’t have a rapidly expanding population that needs more housing or denser urban centers. Freezing the cities as they are (and funding more research and archaeological digs) is probably the best outcome.

I guess it must suck as a resident though.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com