FBI Child ID App
fbi.gov
fbi.gov
In adulthood, I've often thought back to that ludicrous ad. No child's fingerprints are getting checked unless some foul play is already suspected. The likelihood that the child would fall into police custody and get checked is already slim; fingerprints aren't going to help until that happens. We don't have campaigns to fingerprint children as a proactive precaution today (of which I'm aware). Clearly, that wasn't a major breakthrough in reuniting kidnapped children with their parents that endured.
I'm very cynical, but I've always thought that was a campaign to gather biometrics from the population using fear as a motivator. I don't necessarily think this is that, but I can't help wondering the perverse incentives of the FBI as I'm reminded of the ad.
A simple way around it is to have the kid fingerprinted and only release the information if the kid needs to be tracked/located.
That is, it might help on the back end, but the comment is suggesting that mass fingerprinting is not likely to move the needle much.
It's a bit like the businesses that store umbilical cord stem cells for the very unlikely chance they'll be useful at some point in the future.
I agree, this feels more creepy than useful/helpful service.
Our irises are considerably more information-dense, accessible and stable over time as evidenced by the famous identification of Sharbat Gula: https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~jgd1000/afghan.html
A close-up photo should be enough to reliably identify a person years after they went missing.
Someone should give you free cryptocurrency for a scan of your iris.
I'm not sure I'm 100% on board, but the tech is really interesting and their approach to privacy seems much better than I would expect from an offering like that. The aim is to be able to offer Know Your Customer using their identity platform to a mulititude of services.
Everest.org is their site
Fingerprints can also be left on objects, which can be helpful for tracking someone.
Yes - I used one as far back as in 2010 on a science fair where we enrolled people to a research database.
A phone camera close-up should be enough in the right conditions, but additionally Samsung's Galaxy line used to include and iris scanner, which was just a near-infrared LED and a camera.
https://www.wired.com/2010/09/afghan-biometric-dragnet-could...
Of course, the Taliban were able to seize this collection of data.
https://theintercept.com/2021/08/17/afghanistan-taliban-mili...
However, perhaps with training, identification could be made in spite of changes to the iris.
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-outline-boundaries-s...
Although that depends on the number of cameras around, access to them, and how much they are recording. Fingerprints are a lot simpler and easier to access.
I had a discussion with my Mom a couple years about this and she admitted she screwed up. I can't blame her of course. Especially since at the time there was plenty of FBI propoganda about missing kids terrifying parents and claiming this was a solution.
https://www.aclu.org/other/newborn-dna-banking
With my youngest I found a clever way to "opt-out". Unfortunately at my child's 6 month pediatric appointment at a private clinic, the nurse charged in and demanded a sample to send in on the spot. She said they couldn't proceed with any services unless they sent the card in, as their license would be revoked unless doing so.
https://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/02/04/baby.dna.government/in...
In my state you can REQUEST to have the collection card destroyed after 6 weeks, and before 18 years. But they do not guarantee it gets done. Which is just for the collection card. They make sure to "transfer but not sell" the samples to separate entity between that time, which keeps a copy and digitizes it.
> You have a right to ask the Newborn Screening Program not to use or share your or your newborn’s information and/or specimen in the ways listed in this notice. However, we may not be able to comply with your request.
[0] https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CFH/DGDS/Pages/nbs/MyBabysB...
[1] https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CFH/DGDS/Pages/nbs/nbsnpp.a...
So long as we keep giving people a pass for falling for this crap they have no incentive not to fall for this crap.
Holding your mom accountable for a mistake she made when you were a baby isn't helping anyone, holding your government accountable for building a database of our DNA/fingerprints against our wishes helps everyone.
At some point the people enable the government. People need to feel stupid for falling for that crap or they will keep falling for it.
>Holding your mom accountable for a mistake she made when you were a baby isn't helping anyone, holding your government accountable for building a database of our DNA/fingerprints against our wishes helps everyone.
This is not how it works.
If people cannot find the will to hold the people in their lives accountable then they will never find the will to hold the government accountable.
I'm not saying the dude has to pistol whip his mom and set the house on fire over it but it'd be nice if people would resent those kinds of decisions made by their parents and other people in their lives (like the aunt who submits her DNA to one of those ancestry services that shares it) a little more.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0085136/
My parents had me and my siblings watch that movie with them - it is still unsettling to me thinking about it.
And then the FBI contacted my school and provided a voluntary program for parents to have their children fingerprinted. From my memory 95%+ of kids all lined up in my school and got fingerprinted to "protect them from kidnapping".
It honestly seems surreal - looking back it sure seems like a black ops campaign to get biometric data on a large portion of the U.S. youth population.
The ever growing mistrust in government and society will become a self fulfilling promise. I worry about our future when no good and honest talent wants to work for the greater good at reduced pay.
The police had petitioned the government under the guise of privacy laws to make sure they had to throw away the records. Which seems counter intuitive until you realize it'd require me to go through the same process again at a later date. More money for them.
I've less fear of my biometrics being tracked than I do of rent seeking behavior from public officials.
though some countries like Germany issue some simplified passports for kids, Czechia and Slovakia for instance issue same as adult passports, only difference being validity
I'd all but certainly read it in an anthology during the 1970s or early 1980s, probably one of the award compilations (Hugos, Analog, etc.).
A computer programmer and his boss are working on a large data tracking system that is about to be activated, in which everyone's identification and personal information are entered. The boss gives the programmer the choice of opting out of the system. The programmer opts out.
For the life of me I cannot remember the rest of the story, the author, year, etc. But it's stuck with me, and comes to mind often as a slew of ever-more-invasive online information systems (ISP email, some early LinkedIn-type start-ups, MySpace and Facebook, Google Gmail, Google+, etc.) have come on to the scene.
If anyone can remember what story this was, or others reasonably similar to it, I'd be grateful.
(There may well have been others.)
Wait what? So police simply keeps stolen goods with no option for the original owners to get them back? Because civil asset forfeiture isn't enough I guess?
They auction them off and use the profits to buy tanks and grenade launchers.
I wonder what kinds of drive-by biometrics are really collected, especially when protecting children.
The FBI is understaffed, misdirected & underfunded for its real mission, which I would argue must be fighting public corruption, organized crime and counter-espionage. Any objective analysis would conclude the Bureau has been politicized and its resources have been directed at operations, investigations and training that does not fulfill its core mission.
The bad PR and mistrust the FBI has earned in recent years is the public product of what I'm describing, and the solution is not mobile apps of marginal utility made to make the Bureau look good. No, the solution is arrests of corrupt politicians, crime bosses & spies.
Its not just the FBI suffering from feel/look good boondoggles. The Air Force struggles with hypersonics but excels at new uniform design. The DOT is a leader in equity & diversity, but has failed to upgrade & regulate rail infrastructure & procedures that make derailments a regular occurrence.
Tax revenues have been their highest in decades, possibly longer. We deserve better.
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-06-09/fbi-beve...
That's not "low grade" corruption. It's the plainest form of corruption conducted en masse and in a highly organized fashion. When an arm of the government can take your property without due process, any suspicion towards them is warranted.
With regards to this new app, I wouldn't be surprised if this becomes a way to tap into every phone in the country.
If we’re not giving up our rights for safety, what are we giving them up for? Cause we have neither.
Unpopular opinion, but you know the old saying: No one hears about the times the FBI, CIA, etc has stopped a terrorist act, you only hear about the disasters that eventually played out.
For every one sick person that went on to do something crazy, hundreds have been caught before anything happened.
I don't understand the upset for "warrantless wire-tapping" unless you have something to hide, especially when these days people are begging the government to protect us from extremists/terrorists and not sit on their hands.
If their dragnets had even a shred of utility for that purpose they'd be telling you about it at every opportunity.
"500 murdered in a terrorist attack"
versus:
"We caught some bad guys" [who potentially could've killed more]
Okay. Let's assume for the moment that you "have nothing to hide."
Let's go to your house and set up cameras and microphones covering the premises.
Then, let's do the same for your automobile(s).
And for good measure, let's have you wear a microphone 24/7 too.
Once that's done, we can set up a website where we can all watch/listen to you.
If you have nothing to hide, that should be no big deal, right?
What's that? You don't consent to such monitoring? Why? Do you have something to hide?
Having a system for counter-terrorism agencies to check phone logs for keywords is vastly different from setting up cameras in everyones houses for the world to see. I'm not even sure how anyone would think that's remotely similar.
We should be hearing about them, if they actually exist, especially with how rabid the media is in reporting any potential terrorism stories[1]. A policy of not just quietly "disappearing" people is supposedly what sets us apart from those authoritarian countries that the US likes to paint as boogeymen. If what you're saying was true, it'd be a horrifying breach of ethics and the literal constitutional right to due process.
[1] https://ourworldindata.org/does-the-news-reflect-what-we-die...
I'm curious. What are the other differences in the parallel universe you come from? Does boot leather taste like strawberry shortcake?
Mass surveillance is not improving general safety.
And if you don't understand the upset for having some stranger rife through your private data, may I have a full dump of your email inbox?
[citation needed]
You are going to get flagged to death. Rightfully so.
https://www.fox13news.com/news/41-arrested-in-racketeering-i...
"We did a gang wiretap... where we listened to social media apps... where we listened to cell phones and their communications... In total, 41 suspects are facing charges..."
That's what I'm talking about. Suspects being monitored. Even if there's not a court warrant for such individuals, I'd be happy with the LEO using any means to catch criminals involved in sex trafficking, murder, etc.
From unflattering dress blues to incredibly uncomfortably and noisy (yes, noisy as in creates loud sounds) workout clothes, Air Force uniform design is terrible in my experience and subjectively seems to be the worst of all the services (I was always envious of Navy PT gear, looked a lot better than ours).
The FBI's primary objective in practice seems to have always been "maintaining the existing social and political order" [1], with some swaying justification of national security and preventing violence, corruption, espionage, terrorism, cyber attacks, and other vague, broad, non-specific, topical threats.
1. https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/9475...
> mistrust the FBI has earned in recent years
Do you consider COINTELPRO–BLACK HATE recent?
https://archive.org/details/FBI-COINTELPRO-BLACK/100-HQ-4480...
I think we can have a long discussion about what the real purpose of the FBI is. And I bet even within the FBI they can have this long discussion. It is many purposed, some of which we may determine to be pro-social, or pro-democratic. While others are probably more anti-social and anti-democratic.
The FBI is working as intended.
https://www.mintpressnews.com/shocking-origins-jeffrey-epste...
"The connections Roy Cohn built during the 1950s made him a well-known public figure and translated into great political influence that peaked during the presidency of Ronald Reagan. Yet, as Cohn built his public image, he was also developing a dark private life, which would come to be dominated by the same blackmail pedophile racket that appears to have first begun with Lewis Rosenstiel.
One of the “blackmail parties” Susan Kaufman attended with her then-husband Lewis Rosenstiel was hosted by Cohn in 1958 at Manhattan’s Plaza Hotel, suite 233. Kaufman described Cohn’s suite as a “beautiful suite…all done in light blue.” She described being introduced to Hoover, who was in drag, by Cohn, who told her that Hoover’s name was “Mary” in a fit of barely concealed laughter. Kaufman testified that young boys were present and Kaufman claimed that Cohn, Hoover and her ex-husband engaged in sexual activity with these minors.
New York attorney John Klotz, tasked with investigating Cohn for a case well after Kaufman’s testimony, also found evidence of the “blue suite” at the Plaza Hotel and its role in a sex extortion ring after combing through local government documents and information gathered by private detectives. Klotz later told journalist and author Burton Hersh what he had learned:
Roy Cohn was providing protection. There were a bunch of pedophiles involved. That’s where Cohn got his power from — blackmail.”
Perhaps the most damning confirmation of Cohn’s activities in Suite 233 comes from statements made by Cohn himself to former NYPD detective and ex-head of the department’s Human-Trafficking and Vice-Related Crimes Division, James Rothstein. Rothstein later told John DeCamp — a former Nebraska state senator who investigated a government-connected child sex ring based in Omaha — among other investigators, that Cohn had admitted to being part of a sexual blackmail operation targeting politicians with child prostitutes during a sit-down interview with the former detective.Rothstein told DeCamp the following about Cohn:
Cohn’s job was to run the little boys. Say you had an admiral, a general, a congressman, who did not want to go along with the program. Cohn’s job was to set them up, then they would go along. Cohn told me that himself.”
Rothstein later told Paul David Collins, a former journalist turned researcher, that Cohn had also identified this sexual blackmail operation as being part of the anti-communist crusade of the time.The fact that Cohn, per Rothstein’s recollection, stated that the child sex blackmail ring was part of the government-sponsored anti-communist crusade suggests that elements of the government, including Hoover’s FBI, may have been connected at a much broader level than Hoover’s own personal involvement, as the FBI closely coordinated with McCarthy and Cohn for much of the red scare."
What better way to make sure the FBI keeps removing people's freedom than by making it a partisan issue?
Trump, born in 1943, was responsible for Hoovers cache of compromat. A word that entered the Russian lexicon because the KGB was so impressed by what he was doing in Washington in the 1930s.
>Kompromat refers to materials collected specifically for the purpose of blackmailing the target. It’s a Russian portmanteau of komprometiruyushchiy, “compromising,” and material, “material,” and if those Russian words look familiar, it’s because they are; they were borrowed into Russian from English.
The sheer stupidity of two nations borrowing a word from the other to sound smarter and more worldly ought to blow your mind. But it happens so often that anyone who is polylingual just has to deal with it.
The worst example is Latinx. Americans who wanted to cosmopolitan in the 90s decided that Latin wasn't good enough since everyone knew what Latin meant. So they started saying Latino instead. With the 10s craze of gender neutrality Latino was now problematic so it was changed to Latinx only in the way someone who has never passed high school Spanish could. Now instead of the English word Latin we have the abomination Latinx being forced on Spanish speakers by English speakers in the name of progress.
I'm Russian myself, and I find it extremely dubious that either of the constituent parts of the word was borrowed into Russian from English. Russian Wiktionary gives 1720 for the first known use of "материал" (material), and illustrates "компрометирующий" (compromising) with a Dostoyevsky quote from 1846. Both predate the time when English was the primary source of borrowings, so they're far more likely to have been borrowed from French or German.
This M-W article is wrong about other things, too - e.g. "пропаганда" (propaganda) is from German.
Why stop there? Facial recognition, retina scan, DNA marker databases... a personalized AI minder for each troublesome human being (oh, that's your Alphabet/Meta tracker & recommendation algorithm, isn't it)?
This of course is all for the safety of the children and the FBI would never dream of using it to spy on citizens for political reasons, or implement a Chinese style social-credit system, or to ensure you're watching your daily dose of Orwellian positivity content.
I mean what's more important you're imaginary freedom, or being able to bring porch pirates to justice?
I think you meant to say," have the option to bring porch pirates to justice, but we don't have the time and there's liability involved, so just buy a new one and get better locks and build your own delivery service so that packages show up exactly when you're available for receiving."
* if packets are only sent via carrier, not wifi
* if packets are sent to aws instances, which is very common
* if it all stops when phone is rooted, which is common for many apps
* Gov't is mandated to use AWS Gov instances which are quite easy to distinguish [2].
* there are ways to bypass those rootchecks to make a rooted phone seem not rooted [3].
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_packet_inspection#United_...
[2] https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/security/aws-govcloud-earns-dod...
[3] https://stackoverflow.com/questions/68661134/root-detection-...
Consider that they wouldn't have to tell us, indeed, might face criminal penalties for disclosing it.
Conclusion: the FBI can do this.
That's not, in fact, true. The certifications that apply to AWS Gov make it easier to meet certain government compliance rules that apply to certain categories of data, but it is possible to meet the standards on a platform that isn't certified or certified to a lower level (but it means more administrative work for the org using the platform) and many Commercial AWS offerings have FedRAMP certifications, anyhow. I work in an org touched by FedRAMP, and which is almost entirely on AWS commercial, not Gov.
In the case of a child disappearing, it could save a lot of time.
/tinfoil
1. This plays into the US's helicopter parenting culture of fear
2. Most kidnappings are by someone you already know. The "shopping at the mall" example is again, more fear mongering
https://journalistsresource.org/politics-and-government/chil...
> Parents were the perpetrators in more than 90 percent of kidnappings and abductions
3. The app is to store photos of your kid? Just use your camera gallery. I guarantee it's easier to use than the FBI's clunky app (inferred from their screenshot of a 10-year-old iOS version)
4. This is life, you can't solve everything with an app. Get your head out of your phone and open your eyes and look for your kid, they're probably one store down at the arcade
So how does this app help?
There is some class of people out there who don't understand or aren't capable and the government is acting as a gap filler.
Is this weasel words? Apple already has some terms about being able to scan things locally before "potential upload", no?
But what if an Apple employee works for the FBI? Large firms are known to have moles in them, both from competitors, and from government.
https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/child-id-app-brochure.pd...
So what's the advantage of using this vs. the photos you probably already have of your child, and a notes app for recording height and weight?
https://mobile.twitter.com/search?q=elementary%20(fingerprin...
This is like taking a DNA sample from child when they're born nowadays, it seems harmless now, but we can already see companies using this kind of data maliciously.
The point was that if your child goes missing, you have their fingerprints available so they can be used in investigations. In our case, the fingerprints were given to us to take home in case they were ever needed. At the time I didn't think to ask if the police kept a record for themselves, but I doubt it (just because local PD wasn't very organized).
See also ECAP: https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/ecap
Anything short of this feels like a catch-all extension of ID.me and hospitals now gathering DNA from babies without the parents knowledge or consent. Children can not consent to their data being captured in this manor. This should be a role of parents and they should be securely storing this data in my very less than humble opinion. One copy on-site and one copy in a bank safety deposit box and/or one copy stored off-site with a relative, ideally someone legally designated as an emergency legal guardian.
Seems like an app to fix a nonexistent problem.
"You already keep an app with photos, this just adds a barcode... "
https://iapp.org/news/a/fbi-agrees-to-licensing-contract-wit...
Mulder: They must have a mole inside the Bureau!
Skinner: If you go down this road I can't protect you.
Smoking man: smokes
Thanks for answering the question we all had, FBI.
I'd believe that about as far as I can throw it.
The UI needs a lot of work going by the screenshots, it doesn't look appealing and there's some obvious contrast issues
We're sorry... The request has been blocked.
Anyone in the market for a bridge?
If true, this sounds thoughtfully designed.
Network chatter can be viewed without source code access. If what they’re saying is true, this app should not make network requests unless initiated by the user.
Every 40 seconds, a child goes missing or is abducted in the United States. Approximately 840,000 children are reported missing each year. having access to rapid id/photo. Minutes are precious. I'm no expert but + for fbi, minus for the cynics. Just my 2 cents
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/most-kidnapped-childr...
> But contrary to the dominant narrative, nearly all child abductions are perpetrated by family members. Stranger abductions — certainly alarming and tragic — actually occur with “lightning-strike rarity,” as a report in the journal Criminal Justice Studies put it, in contrast to the more than 200,000 parental abductions committed each year that meet the criminal criteria and are not merely delayed visitations or misunderstandings.
And the 840k number massively overstates actual active cases; reports can be solved in a matter of minutes/hours, like a lost kid at an amusement park.
https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-us-missing/fact-ch...
> Therefore, of the 365,348 missing children (between the age of 0 and 17) reports recorded in 2020, only 30,396 – or about 8% – were still active cases at the end of the year.
(Good luck explaining that to a QAnoner, though.)
My brother won't return his shopping cart to the shopping cart return area because, in those 30 seconds where his back is turned, someone is likely to take his children. One parent told me they take it one step further and they won't use passenger door to put their children in the car. Instead, they reach through the car from the driver's door. This way they don't have to walk around the car which would allow someone to take their child.
I've suggested just locking the children in the car but it seems like solving the wrong problem, really.
This is borderline mental illness.