Everything Is Anime
animationobsessive.substack.com
animationobsessive.substack.com
In the end talking about being "inspired by anime" is as facile as talking about being "inspired by movies" or "inspired by television".
The lack of recognition of this fact and the conflation of 'everything' with animation probably speaks to most animation fans' general refusal to engage with other film traditions. Do Studio Ghibli fans care to know what Miyazaki's favorite films are? I guarentee almost none of them are anime or even animated
Hollywood live-action movies and animation have been mainstream entertainment in Japan for a very very very long time. It's almost so obvious and overt that it can be difficult to discuss. With movies like Terminator and Star Wars playing to packed theater audiences in Japan, it would be more of a story if a Japanese animator was somehow not influenced by such imported media!
It's quite a contrast to how anime infiltrated the minds of American artists. Anime (at least in original and uncut form) was far from mainstream. For decades it was traded peer-to-peer on VHS tapes and such. It was far from a given that any particular person knew about it. It was quite a niche interest even among geeks and artists.
(Not that I wouldn't love an article full of Japanese animators discussing the topic!)
Indeed. In the 70s, Star Blazers and Speed Racer were broadcast in my area (USA). No one called it anime. But we knew it was different because of the style, and I really didn’t like it at the time. The eyes, the expressions, the language… I wish I had gotten past that for the stories, but I didn’t.
It wasn't until cable TV reached my area in the early 1980's that I finally got a taste of anime, in the form of Robotech. Catching every single episode was a priority, because if you miss one, it could be years until you had another chance to see it. (I wasn't rich enough to buy VHS tapes for the series, even if I could find them.)
watching every single episode was a priority, because if you miss one, it could be years until you had another chance to see it.
Robotech was even tougher because there were so many episodes, since it was three totally different series stitched together hahaha. You miss one, you're waiting a looooong time.
Speed Racer was absolutely bizarre to me as a kid. It still is, really. The art style, the voices. It feels like some kind of postmodern absurdist art. I like it in a way but, man, wow.
Star Blazers always just felt normal to me. The designs and dialog were more grounded in reality. I realize "reality" is a relative term here, since we're talking about a space opera starring a WWII battleship (lol) but it definitely aspired to some sort of a "hard sci fi" aesthetic. Like a Robert Heinlein novel or something.
If you look at isolated cels or something they're pretty close, and of course they share aesthetics like "big anime eyes". But man, they hit me completely differently.
The English dub voice acting for the first two seasons of Star Blazers was actually pretty admirable in places. They hired non-union, off-Broadway actors as opposed to hiring the typical kids' cartoon actors such as the Speed Racer dub gang. Both as a money-saving move and because they wanted people that would try and take the roles seriously.
The first few eps are tough but once the actors settle into their roles, there are some really credible moments. The overall result is highly uneven but I think it was revolutionary in its own way.
Hilariously, for the third season of Star Blazers, the original cast had scattered to the wind so they hired the Speed Racer cast lol. The results are a farce.
But, I think we read the article a lot differently. I didn't feel the author meant to claim that anime was the only influence, or even the biggest influence, on western animation. Certainly, I'd agree with you that such a claim would be junk.
From the article:
Pixar, and by extension Hollywood 3D animation, is
attached to anime at the root.
If they said "anime is the root of blahblahblah", that's a pretty unambiguous (and blatantly wrong IMHO) claim.
But what does, "western animation is attached to anime at the root" even mean? Are we saying that one grew from the other? Are there also lots of other things attached to these roots? It's sloppy writing.
However, taken in context, I think the author has a reasoned and informed view. The influence of anime is darn near universal, although I think that's definitely not to say that it is the biggest or only influence.
The author doesn't address all of the things that influence anime, such as western animation. Which is fine. That's a big topic in and of itself. Would have added another zillion words. I think they made the correct choice.
None of the 90s directors' films in the article
have that much to do with anime besides The Matrix
I'm sceptical about a lot of the article, but the directors were very explicit about taking inspiration from anime. Ghost in the Shell in particular is a clear direct influence on both the general look and the famous lobby gunfight conclusion.
Dan and Moebius were working on Jodorowsky's Dune. During a slow period, Dan was bored and started drawing a comic. Moebius saw this and offered to rework it a bit. Their collab appeared in Heavy Metal (Metal hurlant) magazine. Ridley Scott used this comic as visual inspiration for Blade Runner. William Gibson even credits this comic for Neuromancer. Other movies influenced by this comic, or the art of Moebius include Tron, Heavy Metal (based on the magazine comics), The Fifth Element, and The Abyss. And, of course, pretty much everything else that came later such as The Matrix or video games like Deus Ex.
It's crazy to think about all the what-ifs with Jodorowsky's Dune. If he did not bring Dan and Moebius together, we wouldn't have Blade Runner (or a vastly different one). If Dune didn't fall apart, Dan wouldn't have gone and written Alien. If Alien didn't happen, Ridley Scott may not have known about Dan O'Bannon or Moebius, and never have done Blade Runner.
Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind was also influenced by Moebius, according to Miyazaki. Look at Azrach (again, Metal hurlant magazine) and the similarities are obvious. The French were really ahead in illustration and animation at one point, and don't often get the credit they deserve. Go and look at what René Laloux was doing with Fantastic Planet, Time Masters, or his short films. Some of this stuff still blows my mind.
> Do Studio Ghibli fans care to know what Miyazaki's favorite films are? I guarentee almost none of them are anime or even animated
Miyazaki got part of the King and the Mockingbird by Grimault actually printed to study them when he was a student. It’s notable because the movie was written by a famous French poet and screenwriter from the poetic realist movement and you can some the influences that had on Miyazaki career are fairly obvious.
Anime from the last twenty years seems less directly influenced by foreign tendencies. Of course, since Japan is impregnated of the American culture (including the language), its anime cannot ignore this context. But decades ago, the Japanese pioneers like Tezuka were following the steps of previous pioneers like Disney, but now, the anime has grown enough to claim a relative independence, meaning their internal tendencies are much stronger than foreign influences.
> Miyazaki (who mostly made very Disney-like westernised things
The level of "Disney-like thing" hugely varies across Miyazaki's films. Mononoke is obviously Disney/Hollywod compatible, but Totoro not so much.
Miyazaki and Takahata, who co-founded Ghibli, repeatedly stated that the work that most influenced them was "Le roi et l'oiseau" (Grimault & Prévert, 1953, 1980). This masterpiece is of course a "western thing", but very far from "Disney-like", especially toward the second half of the film. I heard that the Ghibli museum often had screenings of it.
I actually prefer it to the “finished” version. It’s more minimalist and weird and somber.
The environment of the totalitarian state is contrasted more strongly in Mr. Wonderbird. You have the grandiose and highly modernist towers on the top, a practically deserted and people-free environment. Then you have the bleak cities underneath the surface with lots of quirky peasants. It’s a lot like a cartoon version of Metropolis.
The finished version adds a lot more cartoonish and baroque elements to the world and it kind of detracts from the feeling imo. They’re both good though.
I'd say Totoro is still a lot more Disney-like than the average anime (if that's even a meaningful concept).
My preferred example would be Pom Poko and clubbing police officers with hypertrophied testicles.
That's not true, are you referring to: Momotaro: Umi no Shinpei?
Also I think this article misrepresents anime's increasing super popularity.
The most popular anime (and even light novels) lately are wish fulfillment fantasies. People who are losers in our world, end up in another world where they are special and valued. They find friendship, adventure, and love.
Russia even banned Isekai animes a while back to prevent kids from committing suicide. https://comicbook.com/anime/news/russia-anime-ban-isekai-rei...
https://boundingintocomics.com/2021/05/04/russia-bans-severa...
My theory is people are unhappy with the increasing competition in their lives. We compete with more people than ever in the globalized economy for jobs.We compete with other people for relationships on Tinder/OkCupid/etc. Not everyone can be a winner.
I also think this explains why so many people are snapping when their last refuge of fiction(video games, movies,tv) get altered not to their preference.
And that's why anime is so popular, everyone experiences the same types of stressors an average Japanese person would have (although maybe not to the same degree).
More the Fleischer Bros than the brothers Warner, but your point still stands.
Much to my surprise, Netflix is turning out to be a pretty great curator and creator for anime.
Vi and Jinx are defined by childhood trauma and little else. Jayce is a charming inventor. Viktor is trying to cure himself. Caitlyn is rich. Etc.
Their origin as video game cardboard cutouts is plain to see. The more interesting ones are originals created for the show (Silco, the cops, a couple others), but they're quickly killed off.
Worst is that all the dramatic moments in the story are triggered by miscommunication between these shallow characters. It's lazy.
The show needs better writing.
Agree about Netflix. Thermae Roma was a lot of fun.
Half of the shit they watched seems like it was written by some timid teenage boy with a romance fantasy. If that's what you like, it's not really my concern, but I found them too cringey and repetitive in a way that could challenge Hollywood. There were some ok ones, I didn't mind a lot of mainstream stuff or things that had a particularly interesting or unique premise, but for most the plots were just too easily predictable (an issue that some shows seems to have in general regardless of genre).
But there's plenty of art that has no match in any other field. A list of my favorites if you want to test them out, that don't include "fan-service" (most of what you mention).
Wolf's Rain
Fullmetal Alchemist
Evangelion (includes some pandering, but the content is way too original to care)
Berserk (recommend manga over anime)
Vagabond (manga)
Death Note
Attack on Titan
Utena (old, but a very strong story about grooming and abuse)
And these are the popular ones. If you start going deeper and branching out you can find jewels, specially in manga.
Unfortunately pretty much most of what you listed _are_ old.
* Demon Slayer
* Vinland Saga
* Dr. Stone (I'm sure HN would love this)
* Ascendance of a Bookworm
Very recently, SPY X FAMILY finished its first cour and its second will start this autumn.
Like most things in life, it pays to do a little looking.
Did we watch a different series? Sure, it's a very original take on Super Robot but it's chock full of fanservice.
I don't appreciate that the "pandering" is sexualisation of 14 year old girls.
I agree. But luckily last quarter's "Spy x Family" was the exception, I recommend it (nice animation, light and funny, story ok).
Try these Steins' Gate, One Outs, Dr. Stone, Made in Abyss, one punch man, My Hero Academia, Demon Slayer, Goblin Slayer, Hajime No Ippo, Parasyte
Now some animes are more akin to peanuts or Garfield which is more socially acceptable.
For adults,most people work alot of hours and many businesses have forced socialization. So when you do get some free time, you might watch an episode of something but not in way Americans obsess over it . There's so much anime,manga being produced, and alot of it never makes it to the West.
Not that it radically created a new style, but I think the sheer excellence of Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse goes to show that the current superhero renaissance/overload misses out on the core strength of the source material- the power of animation. Perhaps when more of those comic book movies actually resemble comic book art can there be a challenger from American animation traditions against the anime status quo.
Movies are ungodly expensive to make, so only sure-fire hits are green lit. Books have always been more niche so inspiration from them remains niche.
Also the lamentation that China is losing animation to Pakistan is amusing. By all rights that shouldn't be possible, the market is huge. I theorised it's because Chinese gov interference, https://langsoul.com/blog/the-potential-collapse-of-chinese-...
(Perhaps these examples were saved for the subscribers-only section) Quite notable is the influence of those two films on later Western films--elements shots in Black Swan and Requiem for a Dream match those in Perfect Blue; the same for Inception and Paprika.
Relevant Every Frame a Painting video essay: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oz49vQwSoTE
Kinda interesting given how many similarities there are in the setting of talespin and Porco Rosso. But talespin predates porco rosso by 2 years.
When I first watched porco rosso I thought “man talespin really copied this one!” And only later learned of the time line. Now I can’t help imagining Miyazaki watching talespin and get inspired - although realistically they probably both draw from the same, third source of inspiration.
Also transformers and Gundam. There has got to be a connection there.
Transformers was really big and the Michael Bay reboot movies made the franchise huge again and it’s all basically Anime.
>The series was produced by Marvel Productions and Sunbow Productions in association with Japanese studio Toei Animation
Toei Animation, the studio that made Dragon Ball and Sailor Moon, seemed responsible for the animation in the first two seasons.
Transformers has a much weirder cycle. They were a collection of different transforming toy lines from Japan that U.S. companies wanted to sell to children here. They divvied them up based on criteria: road vehicles largely became good guys, weapons and planes largely became bad guys. They wrote some comics around a concept of a giant war, made some animated films as a sort of pilot, and went to town.
Jetfire (IIRC) is actually a Macross figure.
Gundam is Gundam. I think that's just a Japanese series that is also popular in the U.S.
Go Lion, Albegas, Dairugger, Super Sentai, Macross, Gundam, they're all the same and they're all different. I think it all comes down to "Giant robots are fucking cool"
Anime tends to have gender bias, which is kind of fine , but sometimes it is not the best tool to convey the public service messages. But people didn't notice until feminists get really mad. This is the result of the ultimate penetration and of the anime culture, and fascinating to observe. It's a skewed twin of Japanese culture after all.
At least all the Jap people I talked to at hostels were like that. Was very weird.
More than a "gender bias", the issue has been hyper sexualization in public/professional spaces
I have an answer: "not for the time being" - and it's not even about the style itself.
The reason is in the market that creates it: when it comes to anime series at least, they rarely start as such and they're not designed to make money by themselves. Usually the source material comes from printed media - be it a manga or a so-called light novel. Prospective stories are selected and then turned into a single 12-episode season (made at a loss). In the meantime a line of plastic figurines is released becoming the main source of revenue over time along with DVD releases and such because they fetch the highest margins. If the show is successful, more seasons are produced.
Sometimes the source material is a video game. With the rise of mobile gaming some of the more successful titles include a mobile gacha game.
Overall it's a massive factory of content with multiple selection steps along the way - much like a startup scene. Hard to beat such a process.
My point is simply that I suspect fewer and fewer people (at least in the U.S.) are limited by what's available via public broadcast.
Just for the record: I've been out of touch for a while
What does "I live in the EU" mean specifically? I grew up in Italy and I can 100% guarantee you that most Italians (and from what I heard Spaniards and French too) are very familiar with anime. Anime is *huge* in Italy (at least it was 30 years ago). I grew up with Ranma 1/2, Sailor Moon, Dragonball, Evangelion, GTO, and a lot of other older "Italian-ified" anime that I don't even know the proper name of (because they got translated into Italian). Italy is home to the world's second largest anime/comic convention after Comiket (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucca_Comics_%26_Games). I live in Japan now, and I don't know what kids these days watch on TV in Italy (if they even watch TV) but every single one of my peers is familiar with anime as a medium and has watched several dozens of series growing up (and some of us still watch them today). All of this from public TV and public media.
EDIT: https://www.otaquest.com/anime-in-italy/ good article about it actually
It was but I’m not sure it still is. I’ve not been following the scene in a very long while, but anecdotally I’ve not heard any of the nieces and nephews mention anything which sounded like anime, it’s all 3D/CGI american animation, with the odd Chinese stuff: paw patrol, blue’s clues, bubble guppies, deer squad, blaze and the monster machines, ...
It would be interesting to have some data on that, but seeing all this anime content on social media and explosion of anime convetions i'd be surprised if there was no huge rise in popularity for both anime / manga.
How do Italy people get animes? Through some online subscription service (like US's crunchyroll) or cable?
When I was a kid they were just broadcast on normal national TV. In the morning we'd have some kid friendly shows (like pingu, power rangers, etc) then we'd go to school and come back around lunch time and we'd get to watch Sailor Moon, Dragonball, One Piece, etc (depending on your generation, in order those were the big 3 "main" ones from 80s, 90s, and 00s kids). Every day we'd get new episodes (unlike in Japan where each series is weekly), so it became a part of a shared cultural phenomenon. We had lots of toys and we'd play with our friends and every day we'd discuss the previous day's episodes. For the more "grown up" kids (teenagers and up) you'd get more mature shows like Hokuto no Ken, Evangelion, etc on a different channel, not cable (it later became MTV channel) and those were usually weekly rather than daily. At least I remember watching GTO, Evangelion, Trigun, etc every Tuesday evening from 9pm to midnight.
I only realized they were "Japanese anime" by the time I was a young teenager watching Evangelion because that's when I started having access to the internet and my friends and I would look up lore and hypothetical storylines of the show and we'd stumble upon English and sometimes Japanese websites. Until then everything was properly dubbed in Italian, names of characters and shows translated/adapted to Italian, the songs (OP and ED) were sung in Italian as brand new original songs, etc so most people don't even realize they are "Japanese anime". We wouldn't make a difference between Sailor Moon or Tom and Jerry as far as country of origin went.
These days though I imagine most people watch them online using viz or netflix or similar sites, but I don't live in Italy anymore and most of my friends just pirate stuff so I don't know.
I really don't know the current trends, but anime have always been a staple of free-to-air television. It all started with regional channels in the early 80s; national channels (most famously, Italia 1) followed suit a few years later. Italia 1 still does feature several "oldies" shows daily, and recently aired Dragon Ball Super (as I said, Dragon Ball is wildly popular).
I don't think we have an anime-only service à la crunchyroll yet, but most streaming services feature anime as part of their offer. A controversial new dub of NGE by Netflix Italy even raised a minor commotion among fans.
When I was a kid in the 90s and 00s our TV program was always full of "cartoni animati" (telemontecarlo, which later became MTV I think, and also on Italia uno). I don't think there exists *any* Italian that grew up in the 80s/90s that doesn't know shows like Sailor Moon, Power Rangers (not anime, but still), Sanpei, Ken il Guerriero (with one of the best non-Japanese openings *ever* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Crm94eMuPE), Holly e Benji (Capt Tsubasa), Lady Oscar, Mila e Shiro, Dragon Ball, Ranma 1/2, Nadia e il mistero della pietra azzurra, Mazinga, E' quasi magia Johnny (Orange Road), Lupin, etc. These were all parts of the communal zeitgeist when I was in elementary school in the 90s, and my sister who's a bit older than me (about your age I imagine) also had the exact same experience (we often watched them together).
I "grew up" on Digimon, One piece, shaman king and the like.
TV? Like Cable TV is your metric? Come on its the wrong century for this.
People aren’t going to lead with their counter culture obsession but there are other ways look.
More recently:
- Miraculous: Tales of Ladybug & Chat Noir
- Winx Club
- LoliRock
(All aimed at children, admittedly.)
I guess that this is written for a young audience. Getting close to 50 and having grown with Mazinger Z the examples seem childishly recent. If you look back before I was born you will also find the West being inspired by Japan and the other way around.
> "The Great Wave is one of the most reproduced and instantly recognizable artworks in the world. It has influenced several notable artists and musicians, including Vincent Van Gogh, Claude Debussy, Claude Monet, Hiroshige and more." The Great Wave off Kanagawa. From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
But now? Here's the chart for the just-finished spring quarter of anime.[1]
Miyazaki makes movies, not TV series. And while TV/movie crossovers are very common in Japanese animation they’re still very different contexts.