Ask HN: I'm disabled and out of money. Now what? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: I'm disabled and out of money. Now what?

352 pointsthrwtllwy253 comments

TL;DR: I'm a founder who had some success, but now I'm disabled, can't seem to hold down a job. I'm close to defaulting on my car. I am (unsurprisingly) depressed. I need help but don't know where to go.

I spent the 2010s as a founder. My company was funded by YC and several others. We were moderately successful but didn't see a meaningful exit. After my startup failed, I started consulting to pay the bills.

In 2018 I started having problems with chronic pain and gradually became less and less capable on the job. Consulting gigs were letting me go because I couldn't keep up. The last time I worked was over a year ago, and I finally exhausted my savings in early June 2022.

I live as cheaply as I possibly can at this point. I live with family and only pay for absolute necessities. It comes out between $1200 and $1500 per month.

I'm in the US and I have an application in for SSDI, but, from what I've heard, it's very hard to get benefits, especially if you have an invisible illness like chronic pain. It's likely that my application will be initially denied and I will have to focus on an appeal. It could take a year or more of fighting to be approved.

I am selling some of my old stuff on eBay but it's exhausting and frustrating given my limitations. It's not sustainable.

I have a car payment due soon and I'm already behind by one.

Worst of all, my life is pretty drab at this point. I am obviously depressed. I see a therapist and a psychiatrist but, fundamentally, the source of my depression is the state of my life. I have nothing to look forward to. I can't even afford to toss a few bucks into side projects so I at least have something to do with my time... I mostly watch TV, play video games and lurk on the internet. It's absolutely soul sucking.

I think, given the right environment, I could finish a weekly workload of a bit less than half-time and slowly re-learn how to work again even with my limitations, but no one wants to hire a middle-aged disabled person for part-time work. Further, all of my experience is in startups and that makes me less palatable to larger companies, but larger companies have more options to accommodate disabled people.

I don't know what to do. Has anyone in the HN community been here?

EDIT: A few people have asked what I’d like to do if I were to work again. The answer is that I don’t know!

Before I started having problems, I was a backend-centric web developer but I’m pretty burned out on that these days.

I’ve always wanted to get into embedded, but I have no idea if I can make a lateral move like that in my current state.

Whatever I do, it needs to be with someone who will give me the space to try and fail and try again. That’s really the main thing.

Feel free to EMAIL ME:

tyvm for the shrimp at gmail dot com

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I'm not sure what the cause of your chronic pain is, but I would highly recommend reading John Sarno's "The Mindbody Prescription." I've dealt with chronic pain for years and it's the only thing that's had any effect. Please, please, don't write it off until you've read the book. Note that Sarno's work focuses on back pain, but it applies to all types of chronic pain (including migraines, which he discusses in the book).

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jQtmSZetJM

- https://aaroniba.net/how-i-cured-my-rsi-pain

- https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/09/well/mind/john-sarno-chro...

- https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/well/chronic-pain.h...

Good advice. Also check out Rachel Zoffness, who is the #1 scientific source for information about chronic pain:

https://www.zoffness.com/resources

Curable is also a useful resource:

https://www.curablehealth.com/

Aaron's article was discussed here at the time:

How I Cured my RSI Pain - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1269951 - April 2010 (75 comments)

Lots of Sarno over the years:

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

I read about here last year, and gave it a shot based on the many recommendations. It definitely helped me.

Helped me too. I still deal with pain but it totally changed my mindset about it and relieved a lot of the suffering associated with the pain. I saw an associate of Sarno’s who co-authored one of his books, she looked at my imaging and was like, I’ve seen way worse than this, you’ll be fine long term, which was a huge concern of mine. That was a decade past now.

Everybody should read Sarno's book. It's a short read and even if it doesn't help your back pain it will probably alleviate something else. My partner and I both had pain that disappeared from reading Sarno. Back and wrist pain are gone.

This might sound snarky I apologize. How do you know that you pain disappeared from reading a book, when it could have been random coincidence?

Or to phrase it the other way: I have had some or the other sort of pain in my life, and these pains did, rather randomly leave. Would I have read a book or done some random ritual at this point in time, I might now misattribute the relief to the random ritual.

> How do you know that you pain disappeared from reading a book

I can't know for sure. Though there is this:

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/retrain...

> “For a long time, we have thought that chronic pain is due primarily to problems in the body, and most treatments to date have targeted that,” Ashar says. “This treatment is based on the premise that the brain can generate pain in the absence of injury or after an injury has healed, and that people can unlearn that pain. Our study shows it works.”

My back was feeling worse and worse until I read the book though. My partner reported the same thing. It could be a coincidence but the book was short, contained a few good lessons, and costs me nothing to recall the information in the future.

This sounds very odd - I read this book with skepticism as a PhD neuroscientist, and found much of it to be completely preposterous, and yet, somehow, it still helped me get back to running after being unable to run properly for 2.5 years. I didn't even have to fully believe the weirder aspects of his theories - the core, and more defensible parts were enough to give me benefits I didn't really expect, as a skeptic.

This is not without merit and to some degree I suffer from TMS but I also have EDS (hypermobility syndrome) which is a very real physical condition, and the two work in tandem to make life somewhat uncomfortable, to say the least.

So while I agree the mind does play a part in chronic pain, it is not necessarily the only part.

For those curious enough for a brief explanation -

>Sarno explains how your unconscious mind can provoke physical pain by manipulating your autonomic nervous system to deprive muscle tissue of oxygen. The book posits that the unconscious does this because of unresolved, unconscious stress that exists deep in your mind. By inducing physical pain, the unconscious creates a distraction that prevents this stress from becoming conscious. You can eliminate the pain by addressing the unconscious stress and becoming consciously aware that the pain is merely a distraction, thus rendering the unconscious's technique unnecessary and ineffective. The book provides specific methods for accomplishing this. I applied these methods and my pain disappeared.

Seems like it could be very effective, and something I'll keep in mind if I ever end up suffering from chronic pain.

Summary linked in the comments:

https://web.archive.org/web/20101210060431/http://podolsky.e...

> Here is my summary of what I think is most important in Dr. Sarno's theory:

> 1. The mind and the body are linked. Classic example: the placebo effect -- your mind thinks it's gotten a pill that's gonna fix your body, and what do you know, believing that leads to your body fixing itself.

> 2. Not only can the mind-body connection lead to your body healing itself (as with placebos), it can also lead to the body harming itself, or creating pain.

> 3. Now why would your body do this? In my experience, people with chronic RSIs are, deep down, not happy.

Not terribly impressed, especially the last one, try to be happy when you have pain every minute, especially when you were happy beforehand.

From wiki:

> Sarno's most notable achievement is the development, diagnosis, and treatment of tension myoneural syndrome (TMS), which is currently not accepted by mainstream medicine.[...]

> Patients typically see their doctor when the pain is at its worst and pain chart scores statistically improve over time even if left untreated; most people recover from an episode of back pain within weeks without any medical intervention at all.

> James Rainville, a medical doctor at New England Baptist Hospital, said that while TMS treatment works for some patients, Sarno mistakenly uses the TMS diagnosis for other patients who have real physical problems.

This is a mischaracterization of Sarno's work. One doesn't need to be "happy" to have relief of pain. Sarno's thesis is that chronic pain of this sort is caused by unconscious stress/emotions and the mere acknowledgement of the underlying issues is enough to cure chronic pain. Furthermore, Sarno stresses that patients must first undergo physical examinations by their doctor(s) to ensure that the pain isn't caused by anything structural. Only then should one proceed with his treatment. Note that Sarno (who has since passed away) was not some quack--he was a bona fide medical doctor who treated patients at NYU Medical Center's Rusk Institute.

I would ask you to read his books' reviews (of which there are thousands on Amazon). Are all of these people who were cured from many years of pain lying? Are the other commenters in this very thread lying? There is mounting evidence that Sarno's theories are, in fact, of merit--e.g. https://www.bidmc.org/about-bidmc/news/2021/09/researchers-m....

I have no opinion on the book or author in question, but I’m not clear on why you are so dismissive.

The ability for psychological expectations to cause physical pain and even physical symptoms (like those of an allergic reaction) is relatively well established science.

Doctors are very dismissive of chronic pain patients and regularly make you doubt you have anything, generally with language very similar to Sarno's, in my case I had to fight a lot until they found I had a variation of Parkinson's disease, it was very distressing and a huge part of my unhappiness.

He stated exactly why he was dismissive. You merely reassert the author main point, but fail to address the counter arguments he gave.

Calling a single sceptical statement "counter arguments" is disingenuous at best. The linked bidmc article is a good starting point if you really are interested.

He quoted 3 sentences from the Wikipedia article, in addition to his own. All of which are relevant and valid points.

You didn’t address any of those. Neither did you address his own.

Even if it was only one, reasserting the author thesis, pretending to ask why he is dismissive while ignoring everything he brought is not a constructive contribution. It’s manipulative at best.

I is relatively well established but it is also used by people and physicians to dismiss of sufferers' pain by assuming that psychological aspect are the _sole_ cause of physical symptoms. Blame the sufferers' attitude etc. Quackery at it's very finest.

"The Way Out" by Alan Gordon is a modern treatment of the idea that has been super effective for me.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/50021854-the-way-out

> Chronic pain is an epidemic. 50 million Americans struggle with back pain, headaches, or some other pain that resists all treatment. Desperate pain sufferers are told again and again that there is no cure for chronic pain.

> Psychotherapist Alan Gordon was in grad school when he started experiencing chronic pain and it completely derailed his life. He saw multiple doctors and received many diagnoses, but none of the medical treatments helped. Frustrated with conventional pain management, he developed Pain Reprocessing Therapy (PRT), a mind-body protocol to eliminate chronic pain. He subsequently founded the Pain Psychology Center in Los Angeles to bring his treatment to other pain sufferers.

> PRT is rooted in neuroscience, which has shown that while chronic pain feels like it's coming from the body, in most cases it's generated by misfiring pain circuits in the brain. PRT is a system of psychological techniques that rewires the brain to break out of the cycle of chronic pain.

> The University of Colorado at Boulder recently conducted a large randomized controlled study on PRT, and the results are remarkable. By the end of the study, the majority of patients were pain-free or nearly pain-free. What's more, these dramatic changes held up over time. The Way Out brings PRT to readers. It combines accessible science with a concrete, step-by-step plan to teach sufferers how to heal their own chronic pain.

I've suffered from severe chronic back pain for the past 12 years or so, starting at the age of 16. It manifested as sciatica initially, and gradually became more severe. I had flare ups that would last months. It eventually started manifesting as SI joint pain, constantly switching sides.

Over the years I had been to 4 different physiotherapists, tried everything from regular core exercises formulated by Stuart McGill, to Infrared heat bands, climbing alot. It would always come back.

I picked up Sarno's book about 6 months ago and I approached it with a highly skeptical eye. My back pain is nearly completely gone. I have had very minor flare ups that last a day or two, but I just repeat a few mantras and it disappears the next day (whereas before the same kind of flare up would last for months).

I even had MRIs done at the start of the pain, I had multiple bulging disks and even a spine that appeared too straight. For anyone reading, don't let this discourage you. 50% of people who have had bulging disks appear in an MRI don't experience any pain at all!

Sarno's book has some pretty flaky theories behind how the pain manifests and the physiology of it all, but the overaching theme is that repressed anger / anxiety can manifest as severe back pain. Once you recognise this you can lose the pain. I never thought I would fix my back pain, but now I have.

Read the book if you're suffering!

psychosomatic effects are strange, i'm gonna peak at this book

also there are non individualistic leverage to curing the mind/body aspect

I tried a lot of meditation, hygiene and sport, but nothing had as much impact as having a daily life (commute,job,colleagues). It seems we're also very dependent on our context.

Routine seems to be a master regulator.

The social aspect of routine. I am a clock like person, but it doesn't fill some needs to relate to others.

Q: My life is falling apart on all fronts and I'm struggling with physical and mental health issues; what should I do?

A: Read this book.

Only on HN...

I admit it sounds crazy, but it works. I was extremely skeptical too.

It really doesn't work for everyone.

OP needs to see a doctor first instead of trying to use a placebo.

I'm incredibly confident that OP has already seen a doctor.

Well put. The sheer number of well-intentioned people who tell you the obvious thing to try out is annoying.

HN bashing can only go so far, every where people have the same prototypes of answers, HN, reddit, boards, public transportation :)

I didn't read it as bashing, but as a joke

Maybe I was lacking some humor that day

Bashing people trying to help is usually a reddit thing, but here we are.

This website is a text based medium. Literally the only thing that can conveyed here is information.

Books, as you are aware, can contain even more information and advice than this website.

If the person was looking for something other than information and advice, they would be looking elsewhere.

I have an intuition that there's a reasoning problem in this comment but I can't point out what exactly this time.

Verbal clues and facial expressions are also pieces of information, so the fact that HN is a text-based medium does not set it apart from other communication mediums only because it conveys information.

People going to HN to ask for help probably do this because they are familiar with this community, not necessarily because it is text-based and probably haven't rationalized this aspect that much.

Anyway, good luck to OP. I don't have any insight on this matter.

When my grandmother was in her 20's, her hair turned white and she started losing weight. Convinced it was psychosomatic, the doctors at the time gave her 10 rounds of electroshock therapy. Later it was discovered that she had Addison's disease, an autoimmune condition. All she needed was some medication.

So, let's say I'm skeptical when it comes to the "mind body connection".

Not everything is psychosomatic. It's good to be skeptical!

Sarno's work comes up periodically on HN, and I always have to chime in to say that it cured my RSI. Everything is still completely, 100% cured at 15+ years. As a developer, I have no idea what I would have done without it, my career would have been over. Here are my previous comments:

From 2016: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12990976

From 2021: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26120633

Yes same here. For me Sarno gave me my life back and reading my comments it seems it has helped a lot other people here too, so I always chime in too. Here is my comment from 4 years ago and that was the the start of the end of my struggle with pain. (1)

Nowadays I've started doing the wim hof method and it's unbelievable my body can endure 7°c bath and I don't feel that cold or fall sick taking an ice cold baths everyday even during winters. The reason I'm mentioning this is because it really seems our minds are much more capable of things for which common sense goes against.

I think like the way germs were discovered which changed our understanding of medicine, within a few decades it will also become a norm to assess patient's mental condition before checking for physical and hopefully using the mind to cure a lot of disease. I feel like a hippie saying these things but after sarno and wim hof I've become more open to the power of human mind.

(1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17982355

While it might be a possible reason for OP's pain, a lot more often, it's actual physiological issues.

I read this book and it did nothing for me. I had actual medical issues, and I kept going to different doctors and physios until I found one that found the issue and solved it.

OP needs to go see a sports physio and neurologist.

What were your medical issues?

Personally I think Sarno is BS. He's telling people what they want to hear and covering up for the failures of of our medical system.

He basically says that your pain is coming from stress from psychological issues and what you need to do is therapy and Journaling.

I believed this nonsense in regards to my own back pain for a long time. Ironically my pain of 5 years started to subside as I gave up these beliefs although I don't think that was causal.

I had a physical injury to my neck muscles. It turned out what I needed was years of rest and pt to that muscle system. No amount of Journaling is going to fix real injuries

My experience is the exact opposite of yours. I was told for 12 years my back pain was caused by bulging discs, having a spine that has a reduced natural curve and also caused by poor posture. I read Sarno's book and I have been pain free since November last year. I have never gone longer than 2 weeks without severe sciatic or SI joint pain.

Please don't dismiss Sarno's work as BS. It may have not been the right fit for you, but it is for countless other people. Sarno's work is aimed at exactly people who don't have a real biomechanical issue like yourself. It's not a one size fits all, nor is Physiotherapy or surgery.

Also in general, Sarno doesn't reccomend journaling to everyone. A simple mindset change works for most people. Worked for me.

I don't think your story should lead you to conclude that his theories are BS. Like clearly a lot of pain has a physical basis. Sarno's argument was that there is a fair amount of pain that does not have a physical basis, and that once structural causes are eliminated one should consider emotional/mental sources for the pain. The fact that you had pain with a structural basis doesn't really suggest that any of that is untrue.

I'm pretty skeptical of what he says, but there is definitely enough smoke that a fire is possible.

No horse in this race, by the way. I've never had chronic pain, I just think the topic is interesting.

As somebody with chronic pain I think Sarno is a total crank. It has been decades and TMS still hasn't been demonstrated in a way that's objectively measurable. He puts forward what should be testable hypotheses about what's going on in the body and yet still can't publish anything showing it's actually happening. When you read the forums for his books it's a bunch of people cultishly telling each other that they need to believe in order for it to work.

Do 1 task a day, no matter how small it is, do it consistently for a week or two. Then every other day you do 2 tasks for a month, and you start working up to a point where you feel you do what you can within your limits and get joy from that 1 (or 2) items you can scrap off.

If you live with family focus your tasks maybe on easing their life, pull out 10 weeds out of the garden, take out the trash, fix a squeaking door. Small but attainable things.

Chronical pain is a mess, it's relentless and it's always there, it doesn't go away, but you learn to deal with it. Focus on the pain initially, learn what pain you have and focus on it. I learned to focus on it and make a mental note (do not know how else to say) that it's not worth paying attention to, and I get by without medication. It's not always easy and there are days where you want to cry and cry and just fall asleep so you do not have to feel it. It's normal and accept that not all days will be the same and successful.

It's a tough hill you are up against, but all shall pass and all will be well in the end. It's unbelievable sometimes, but all shall pass. Remember that.

Good luck, don't falter, reaching out is the first step!

I was in a similar situation, minus the physical disability (I was mentally in a really bad place though). The only advise I have is to not think of any job as below you. I don't know your exact situation or your disabilities, but if you can deliver pizzas to at least keep your head above the water, do that. Having gone through YC you're obviously also a bright and intelligent person, how many different companies have you tried consulting for? Some companies could be more understanding than others of your situation, in which cases making 1500 a month shouldn't be a huge problem in this industry. Sorry you're going through this friend..

It’s also worth considering whether providing a lower going rate and longer duration of work would be effective. For some projects it may be possible to effectively work half time.

I’ve met folks in unusual industries that need ongoing tech work/knowledge but have no desire to have this knowledge and effort in house. Medical device manufacturing was one such field. (work was government compliance, and server patching/network maintenance)

Would you have any suggestions for finding work in fields like this? As a developer (mobile with some web and backend), I would love to have ongoing part-time work to provide enough income and free time to pursue other projects.

These jobs are generally considered full time and may even have anti moonlighting clauses. They just don’t have much pressure associated to them as long as you are moderately competent and can reasonably deal with crushing beuracracy.

The way to find these is to really just look for a job which emphasizes enterprise, a tech you know, and the main focus being upgrade from version X to version Y. Bonus points if this is in a large firm with minimal competition in its sector.

These companies largely need someone to be there in case they might need some job done, but generally they need people to pretend to be busy. With remote work, they probably don’t need you to try particularly hard at that.

Where are you based?

Am based around the Los Angeles area.

>>The only advise I have is to not think of any job as below you.

This. I had two tries at starting up last decade, failed. Good for me, I had some back up plans. Beyond all, I realised, a regular salaried job is a privilege. There is nothing wrong in taking up a full time 9-5 job. In my case I had a full time job, before, and just continued it after my venture went under water. For some reason such a job which is something most people aspire for, is considered some sort of a failure in entrepreneur community. You get a salary every month, with annual bonus, and health care plus vacation covered. How is this failure? If anything this is the best thing that can happen to many people on this planet.

I'd advice the OP to consider taking up a full time job. If you have started up and seen any amount of success at all, chances are you will do good at interviews and eventually at your job. Do this for a few years until, fix your health and finances- and then work from there.

Do you have any particular IC skillset? E.g., software development, QA, UX. Would you be willing to learn a new stack if you had to?

No promises but, if so (and assuming you don't get plenty of better suggestions and offers here), drop me an email: bart PERIOD read THEALIKECHARACTERTHATISNTANAMPERSAND savanta DECIMAL POINT com.

I'm the CTO so have a meaningful level of influence but can also tell you that what's most likely to scupper us working with you, apart from a skillset mismatch, will be some BS about creating IP and taxation within a US state (or some other legal nonsense that makes it hard or impossible to work with you even though we are incorporated in the US).

I'm sorry I can't be more directly encouraging but do reach out if you're interested and I'll see if I can help.

EDIT: One other thing that might be useful to us, doable part time, and would I think sidestep any issues around IP creation. How are your management skills? And might you be willing to work slightly odd hours? E.g., afternoons, to cross over with the UK (obviously depends where you are in the US).

Not to derail this thread or to sound like I am criticizing OP, but everyone should take this post as a reminder to look into having a disability insurance policy. Your megacorp may offer a policy, but look into getting your own guaranteed renewable non-cancelable policy, as it provides greater protection. The Bogleheads wiki has a good page describing what is important to obtain in such a policy.

Good point.

Pro tip: get this while you are employed full time before you jump into self employment (at least look into it).

It’s unclear to me that this case would be covered though? It’s not hard if you lose your legs or arms. Pain and related topics are likely excluded from your standard policy.

I am not an expert on disability insurance, so I recommend everyone do their own research and speak to a disability insurance independent broker to get tailored advice, but if you have a "true own occupation" and "partial disability" coverage, then I think you would be covered, e.g. if you are a programmer that can no longer code more than half time due to carpal tunnel, I would think you could collect 50% disability even if you could work full time as a waiter.

Of course, it's likely harder to prove such a claim, as the insurance companies look out for fraud. But if you have a clear and well-documented history, medical files, etc., I would think you should be eligible.

Note that your megacorp group insurance policy is likely more limited, e.g. it may not have any coverage for partial disability.

Happy to be corrected by those more knowledgeable.

Right, not an expert either. But you moved the goalpost a little.

Carpal tunnel is a medical condition. You can take an xray and see inflamation and rule it.

You can't really do that with pain or brainfog. There is no test "how real is this persons pain".

Again, not an expert, but I would guess that in a “good” comprehensive disability insurance policy, chronic pain or brain fog is not an excluded condition, per se. It may be much harder to get the insurance company to accept your claim, but that is an issue of proof, not contractual exclusion. I would also guess that a good attorney could help make your claim succeed, even if initially denied, if it can be shown through the totality of the circumstances, e.g. a long history of doctors appointments, pain pills, attempts and inability to keep working due to the pain, a decrease in normal life activities (e.g. you used to be an avid sportsman and have clearly ceased all those activities), etc. If you claim your pain is horrible but they catch you skiing on vacation in Italy, even if somehow that was during a lull in your pain, that’s probably going to not help your claim.

I have a friend that was a doctor for over 25 years. Made great money, but ended up having a career-ending disability.

He had been buying disability insurance, the whole time (he says it was pretty expensive).

It ended up saving his ass. He makes more money from the disability insurance, and SSI (It is possible to get it, if you have doctors. Many lawyers also help -for a percentage), than many folks make, working.

I am not in any way offended by this. I agree 100%. It was a mistake not to have disability insurance.

If it makes you feel any better, group disability insurance is notorious for being some of the scummiest insurers out there. Their whole thing is deny deny deny. You may have to file a federal lawsuit to try to just get the benefits you were owed and in the end with group disability and it could take just as long as SSDI.

Since we're on this topic: any notably good insurance companies that folks would recommend if we're talking privately purchased disability insurance?

Mine is through Principal, because it covers mental and nervous system issues too. It was the only one that did when I was looking.

I'd also like to add that if you end up collecting, DI payments are TAX FREE. The second I found out this existed I got a policy asap lol

DI payments are tax free if you pay the premiums out of pocket. If the employer pays your premium through a group policy, the payments are taxable.

At least that’s my understanding, anyone reading should confirm with a DI broker.

> disability insurance policy

You know people on group disability policies can have to wait up to 18 months for disability while their disability insurance unreasonably denies their claim, and that the laws governing these plans don't actually allow you to collect damages but only the disability benefits you were actually owed in the first place?

It might be better than SSDI, but not much.

I wouldn't go so far as to recommend not getting disability insurance, but folks should know how much of a scam it is.

I know of two folks personally, and many more folks second hand, who have battled to get disability insurance they are rightly owed. The insurance agencies will do everything they can to prove you are a fraud, like have private investigators tail you for weeks to collect photos of you doing things that people who are disabled obviously can't do. They'll go to your door to trick you into talking to them, they'll talk to your friends and family and colleagues and clients behind your back. They'll track your car.

Both cases I know personally ended up giving up on collecting insurance due to the full-time nightmare it required. One even moved overseas to get the insurance company off their back years later.

This needs to be said more. Especially for the young, disability insurance is vastly more important than life insurance usually.

When I got licensed, they quoted to us saying that "you are 8 times more likely to need disability insurance than life insurance (and you are guaranteed to die!)." This is due to something like 20-25% of people needing disability insurance during their working careers and most people dying during retirement with not a lot of bills left behind.

I’m sorry you live in one of the worst countries in the world to be disabled in. While this can be challenging everywhere, the US is especially bad at providing adequate support, both financially and otherwise.

What might help you is looking for a job with part time responsibilities and part time wages and investing full-time into that job if you need to to keep up. If this is viable for a tech role you’re likely to easily afford your fairly modest lifestyle living with family. I know this sounds a bit depressing as you’re essentially taking on a full-time schedule for part-time pay but it’s better than not having a job at all. Other options include looking at work where pain isn’t likely to substantially impair your performance so that you’d be able to get things done. This may involve drastic pay cuts as well, but again while you’re living with family and have a modest lifestyle even a drastic pay cut from peak of the tech market can lead to affording what you need.

As far as therapists go, I’d be considering reevaluating the ones I’ve talked to if you talked with them about your dwindling financial resources and none of them attempted to find an adequate solution or tried to help you get back on track. If you haven’t mentioned it at all you may want to consider doing so if they might have useful advice.

If all else fails, cut costs aggressively. The lack of freedom from not having your own car sucks but it’s better than being bankrupt or cutting needed therapy (if a family member can drive you there). If cutting a car is absolutely impossible for your life then it seems essential to figure out what work you can manage to handle and seek employment in that quickly.

> I’m sorry you live in one of the worst countries in the world to be disabled in.

The US is such a bad country by almost any fundamental metric... I think it's just a matter of time before its economic privilege implodes.

My comment was not popular, but it's hardly unreasonable. Even the FT writes:

> While US political risk in global comparisons is still relatively low (it ranks 85 out of the 127 countries tracked by Rosenberg), it is now by far the highest of any developed market. Only countries such as Turkey, Colombia, Mexico and Israel look anything like the US within the OECD nations. Even more worrisome is the fact that the change and volatility of key metrics, including the risks of social and government instability, political violence and even the risk to democracy, make the US look much more like a developing nation than a developed one — let alone the supposed leader of the free world.

https://www.ft.com/content/7b40420e-c678-4400-a4bd-ccdbbc445...

Yes, the pain would clearly be much less if OP were elsewhere.

It's why the US border is clogged with people trying to get in. They hate the better care elsewhere, obviously.

Yeesh.

Well he’s already mentioned his disability will be denied by the state and that he will have to appeal. Most countries don’t have a default policy of assuming disability claims are fraudulent and doing everything in their power to minimize them. So there is that.

The fact that you have one border with one country that is significantly behind you economically and people cross that border to try and find a better life is not evidence you’re the best place ever. Maybe Mexico is a hellhole and America is thoroughly mediocre but still better than a hellhole. Most people in most parts of the west won’t trade their rights and benefits for the American side of the equation. The world is watching in disbelief as your Supreme Court sets you back 50 years on basic bodily autonomy, freedom from religious coercion, or the ability to have environmental standards. People of the world mostly don’t want to trade their rights for whatever rights Christian Facists deem acceptable.

> I’m sorry you live in one of the worst countries in the world to be disabled in.

At least in the USA, the ADA ensures that many places are built to be wheelchair-accessible; bathrooms in public places have accommodations, grocery stores have ramps, stairs always have an alternative, etc

I'm pretty sure in most countries in the world, mobility would be far lower for the disabled.

The ADA ensures these things where people complain about them only.

Most countries have laws that require accessibility whenever a building is updated/rebuilt. It can be slightly harder in countries with more older buildings. But access to random spaces in public is less important if you can’t afford to live which the US makes a reality for many disabled people by denying them disability payments and not having decent public healthcare.

Debt: Can you sell the car? Now is a great time to sell. If it's a lease, you could post it on leasetrader.com (or similar)... again, it's a great time to get out of a lease. It's nice to have a car, but it seems like getting out of that would be a healthy financial decision. Remote jobs are a plenty, and you live with family, so you can tag along with them when you need to get groceries until you've got a job and can afford a car again.

If you live within a couple miles of a cafe, then you can walk there and back everyday to get out of the cabin fever feeling, get some exercise, and change up your scenery for a boost in energy. I know a couple miles sounds like a lot, but you have to recalibrate your thinking to your current needs. When I didn't have a car, I used to walk 4 miles/day. Then I got a bike, no car payment or insurance. Then I got a car. Find your path back to what makes you happy. Chances are, that doesn't require a car.

Depression: It sounds like you've gone down the clinical route, so there's no need to cover that. From there, I'm not sure what your aspirations were in the startup world, but you might have to be honest with yourself about what is realistic and where your skills are now. Again, recalibrate your thinking and take it one step at a time. Your immediate task, besides your health, is to get a job that you can do.

Again, remote jobs are a plenty. What are your skills? Keep applying, keep working, eventually you'll find a remote job were the expectations are low and you can keep up. If we knew what your skills are, maybe there's even someone here who needs a part time person with those skills. Avoid startups and consulting, those are going to be high demand and that's not right for you right now. You've got this.

I'm really sorry you're dealing with this. I'm going to mostly share info about public benefits in case it's helpful, just because that's what I know (and I don't have as much knowledge about some of your other questions.)

What state are you in? I know you mentioned SSDI, but just to relieve some of the stress of getting by, you should try to apply for as many public benefits as you might be eligible for (SNAP/food assistance, Medicaid [medical care], affordable connectivity program [internet], Lifeline [phone.]) With little or no income, you should get some decent support from these programs.

For getting disability support (SSDI, or SSI), you might consider getting a lawyer. You're right it can take a long time to get this, but odds go up if you have a lawyer helping you. You can also contact your local legal aid which you may qualify for based on income.

In terms of jobs I'll do some thinking and see if I can post more. Are there any activities that you can definitely do without getting stuck due to your disability? There are definitely options for flexible computer work, and also things that are more phone-oriented.

To add on to this comment, many public benefits are based off of financial households (who shares bills), rather than physical households (who happens to live under the same roof). For example, SNAP eligibility calculation is based off of who purchases&prepares food together. If you purchase and prepare food separately from the family you live with, then your SNAP household size is 1 (just you) and is based off of only your own income. Even if you don't think you'll qualify, it's worth applying because a) the benefits you receive are based off of application date and b) your caseworker may know of unobvious ways to adjust your income so you are eligible.

Hey there! I was in a similar boat. This might not be a popular solution but what got me, "out of the poverty trap" was going back to school. I have high ACT scores so I can get all my housing, meals, transport, paid for by grants and scholarships and what's left over I can always manage with student loans. I keep a part-time (Wednesday and Thursday) job so I have modest disposable income. I'm still in the thick of it; I won't receive full financial aid until the fall so family's helping out.

Don't lose hope! There are workable solutions to social problems.

Can you write code? Plenty of places will hire part time, let you work from home, etc. Don’t look for big companies, look for small and mid sized private businesses. As an aside, I think this is an important reason to develop and maintain a social/professional network that you can lean on in times like this. I’m sure I have friends that would give me a chance at work under these circumstances. Maybe you have some of those from years past that you could reach out to? You may be surprised who is willing to help.

Would you have any suggestions for finding work in small-mid private businesses like this? As a developer (mobile with some web and backend), I would love to have ongoing part-time work to provide enough income and free time to pursue other projects.

Try https://remote.co/remote-jobs or https://weworkremotely.com. There are plenty of jobs to choose. https://hnhiring.com is also a good resource (which curates monthly HN job board). You should be able to land few offers soon.

Hang in there..

Radical idea: try a long meditation retreat. Some of them are free or by donation (e.g dhamma.org, a little cult-like but I think well-intentioned). It also forces a rigorous routine on you for a short while, which can help a lot with the aimless feeling. The challenge of getting through the full ten days gives you some purpose.

It helped a lot with my depression, and some people have found serious benefits with chronic pain. It seems to help people disconnect from the physical pain and not have it affect other aspects of their life as much.

If that doesn’t appeal to you, look for other changes that can enforce some routine in your life. Taking in-person classes at a college, joining a yoga class, meeting a friend for coffee every morning, volunteering at a shelter, cooking breakfast for your family every day… something that turns your focus towards others a little can be helpful.

Your story is sadly not unique: being broke and unemployed is awful, and there are millions in the same situation. You are not alone! Firstly, this post you made right here and now may be the turning point, at least your story is known by others and maybe the right person will read it. Secondly, although it may sound a bit trite, perhaps now is the time of your life to really decide what matters the most to you, and focus just on that. Whatever it is that you really love, try to make it your primary thing. And the better you get at it, the more likely there is someone out there who needs your help. It is a big world and no matter what your skills are, there is someone who can benefit from them if you are an expert. Keep putting your name out there and make sure people hear from you. It sounds as if your mind is still working just fine, and it is your greatest resource, and can be a source of wealth to come!

It sounds like the root cause of all your problems is this chronic pain, and you need to focus all your efforts on solving it first. One option is to sign up for clinical trials at various chronic pain research centers around the country. Stanford is one of them, there are plenty others, hopefully near where you live.

https://stanfordhealthcare.org/medical-clinics/pain-manageme...

https://med.stanford.edu/pain.html

https://med.stanford.edu/pain/about/chronic-pain.html

Some years ago I developed chronic lower back pain from poor sitting posture. It was partially debilitating - not to the level yours is, but it significantly negatively impacted my ability to stay active and thus healthy and thus able to maintain peak performance at work. But I joined a Stanford clinical trial on lower back pain, and it cured me permanently, and they even paid me a small stipend for it! So I think it’s worth a try if you can swing it.

Playing Video Games, Smoking Weed, Jerkin Off, etc isn't going to get your life on track.

I'm a traveling controls engineer, systems integrator, it is not a easy life. I've had plenty of burnout moments, those 100hr weeks where you worked everyday just getting the job done. As that is what needs to happen when a scheduled shutdown of a facility that pulls in over a million dollars a day is non operational. Falling behind is not an option. Luckily for me I've had pretty good luck for the most part and have always been on top of things.

But issues do happen, like the electrician landing 120v to a analog card that the lead times for makes it unobtanium. And with that the old VFD's that relied on that card for a return speed reference. In those times using generic remote IO you had in your truck with a analog card can get things up and running, and make you look like a hero. But going without sleep to get it workin is not enjoyable. Anyone that knows AB Hardware and its shitty support of Modbus would know. Using a add-on you've never used, as you'd normally use a red lion in this use case.

My body aches all the time. and I always have a full work load. On top of three kids at home.

There is no excuse to being lazy. Even pain. Disability is min wage, it is a sad shitty life. My wife's mom is disabled, she has to live on what would be considered poverty wages. She doesn't do anything with her life, and she can't drive because of said disability.

Get to the Gym, get a job, get life back on track.

If you are done with programming, deliver pizza.

My best friend is a full stack web dev, but he too would rather not work as the idea of having day to day responsibilities is too much. He moved homes a year ago, and it still looks like he moved last week. Issue? he smokes pot non stop and gets by on minimal contract work while his wife bring in 80% of the income.

Sometimes the correct answer seems cruel.

I'm working on a bootstrapped SaaS, I didn't plan on hiring developers because I just don't have the budget for it but I've been where you're at. I'm disabled and severely ill, with not much to look forward to in the future, thankfully I'm still employed and have enough to survive.

If you can program elixir and you can settle for a below-market rate I can give you a few billable hours and whatever schedule you can accommodate with your difficulties. It's not a long term solution but hopefully it could help patch the leak in your finances.

Hang in there. You have the courage and intelligence to write such a thoughtful and articulate message. There’s fight left in you yet. Reach out to me directly, and I’m happy to just talk. You can find me online as I’m a member of the Sort Benchmark committee. We as a community are here for you.

I went through a very similar thing with ME/CFS and hEDS (which has a chronic pain component). Before I even knew what was I knew that I was on the decline. I was doing ok at work but my ability to maintain a working pace kept diminishing. I went from full time to part time to less than part time to the occasional contracting. I ended up having to do a bit of a Hail Mary to try to save myself. I took a bunch of stimulants for three months and made some software that I was able to sell for enough money to keep afloat. It was niche software that was obviously going to make money but it was a lot of unpleasant work. I likened it toilet scrubbing work. I knew if it didn't work I'd run out of money and without family support my backup plan was to take a long walk off a short pier. Since then I've been able to find out the underlying problem, no thanks to doctors who were all less than helpful, and now treat it fairly successfully with a variety of meds.

I guess my advice would be, do whatever is needed to make money, no matter how unpleasant, so that you can survive long enough to figure out what is wrong and get treatment. And don't rely on doctors for treatment.

> I guess my advice would be, do whatever is needed to make money, no matter how unpleasant, so that you can survive long enough to figure out what is wrong and get treatment.

The greatest TV show ever made (IMHO of course) was actually based on this premise, only the main character was a chemist, not a developer.

Your story is very familiar to me....I worked for years in a failing body, trying to make enough money to survive.

It sounds like you've found treatments that help you, but if not the Center for Complex Diseases is great with both ME/CFS and hEDS. If you have spine issues due to hEDS there are some PT's in the Bay Area that specialize in craniocervical instability and related issues. Just FYI.

I gave up on doctors a long long time ago. I found that I was far better at diagnosing and treating myself than any doctor I've ever met and I've met a lot of them. I get the meds I need on the black/gray market. I can get research peptides that are not FDA approved and they've been great. It is way more effective than anything a PT or even a doctor could do. I also do weightlifting and take special care of my hormones and diet. The ME/CFS is fine these days as well, I had a relapse with the vaccine booster but was able to medicate myself out of it.

I can relate. Is there a way I can message you? (maybe via Reddit?)

I heard good things about Viktor Frankl's books, e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man%27s_Search_for_Meaning. He went through Auschwitz and learned (and then tought) how to deal with hardship.

People who are willing to work with you, who you can help, even in the context of your handicap, exist. Find them. Be honest about your handicaps.

Man’s search for meaning is certainly inspiring. If you read, it’s worth adding to the queue even if you aren’t experiencing hardship. It’s a tough read at times.

I agree about being honest about handicaps. Especially if you know they can get in the way. People can easily forgive that when they know what to expect. I’ve been more upfront about it and having no issue finding work, but I feel far more at ease as a result. I’m even getting older; I’m 36 with a mild disability. I would have thought I’d be unemployable earlier in my life. Good people exist, and they get it. Definitely seek them out.

As for the search for meaning. I read that at a dark point in my own life and the main thing I got from it was perspective. What he describes is unimaginable. What I was experiencing was very imaginable. I found that very helpful.

Stoic philosophy has a sort of “zooming out” mechanism used to remind the practitioner how small they are in the scheme of things, how little their troubles matter, and Man’s Search For Meaning is an incredible tool for accomplishing this. Very few people can truthfully say their struggles are greater. It’s a window into how fortunate most of us, even with our hardships.

Chronic pain is legitimately hard to mentally distance yourself from though. Don’t hold it against yourself if reading the book doesn’t allow you to do so. I had chronic sciatica for around a year once and while I was young and stupid, I don’t think I’d handle it well today either. It was disabling in a truly unflagging and monolithic sense. I have no idea why it went away, but I can genuinely feel a sense of relief each time I think of it. It was torture.

Above all I would say don’t blame yourself or imagine you should do better or differently or whatever. Each step is part of it, whether it’s a good or bad step. You do the best you can with what you’ve got, mentally and physically, and no one said any of it would be easy. To be depressed about it is understandable. To be tired of it is as well. Struggling makes sense. Don’t hold that against yourself, if you do at all, and hopefully that can provide some relief.

Best of luck OP, and hopefully the traction this post got helps you see that people care, they understand, they relate. You aren’t alone.

> In 2018 I started having problems with chronic pain and gradually became less and less capable on the job

Tame the Beast — It's Time to Rethink Persistent Pain, Lorimer Moseley This 5 minute animation explains how pain works, how our nervous system can learn pain, and explains new approaches to help reduce an individual’s pain. (5 min) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikUzvSph7Z4&vl=en]

Best Advice for People Taking Opioid Medication, Mike Evans This 11-minute video is great for both patients and clinicians. It explains what chronic pain is, what we know about the benefits and risks of opioid medications, and how to avoid the pitfalls that can be associated with opioid treatment. (11 min) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Na2m7lx-hU]

Understanding Pain: What to Do About It in Less Than Five Minutes? This easy to follow 5 minute video about chronic pain helps individuals understand what current research has been saying about chronic pain - that it’s not a joint or muscle problem, rather a 're-wiring' of the brain’s perception of itself. (5 min) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_3phB93rvI]

Chronic Pain Self-Management Resources This document provides a list of recommended chronic pain self-management resources that might be useful for primary care practices and their patients. Materials listed include three provider workbooks/manuals, along with resources your clinic might consider suggesting to patients. [https://depts.washington.edu/fammed/sixbuildingblocks/wp-con...]

Have you considered technical writing? I don't have experience with chronic pain but if you can still comfortably play video games maybe you can also write articles?

I used to do this as a side gig and collected some resources and places that pay here [0]

I have since started a technical publishing company [1] so it's a full time focus and most of our writers work 20h/week or less. Feel free to apply if it sounds interesting.

[0] https://github.com/sixhobbits/technical-writing

[1] https://ritza.co

You have big problems. How do big problems get solved? The best approach is to take the big problems and break them up into smaller problems, divide and conquer. Get out a whiteboard and go over your problems logically, as if you were a different person looking at your life from the outside. The key problem in your case seems to be a lack of money. My best advice is to solve it and quickly by finding a job. You don’t have to find the perfect job, just find a job and then work on improving things step by step. It might not even be in tech, there are call center type jobs you can easily do from home. But my advice would be to find a coding job. Don’t try to completely switch fields right now, you’re not in a good place to do that, try sticking with what you already know and build up from there. Take a course in modern web development maybe and brush up that resume. Getting your life together is hard and it takes a lot of work. But luckily you have a lot of options. Try taking things step by step, day by day. It doesn’t need to be the perfect job, just a job that pays the bills. Once you have your basic needs met, then you can begin to focus on finding an even better job, learning more skills, becoming healthier. Ultimately, Rome wasn’t built in a day. The one thing you shouldn’t do is give up, even if things seem hopeless, it’s just because you haven’t found the right plan yet :)

Same, disabled. Luckily I paid into insurance and got disability coverage but even still it isn't enough to make ends meet in Los Angeles. I haven't found a solution. It sounds like you're doing better in some regards. I would say do what you can to improve your situation like the claim and what not as early as possible and say fuck you to the negative self talk that might be holding you back from getting help. Talk to some disability advocates or lawyers to help out as well.

I've heard that SSDI with a lawyer is much more doable than without one.

Absolutely get an attorney, they will collect when you are approved. My mother waited years for her SSDI denials to be appealed, and died in the interim before the issue was resolved.

Start the process ASAP. With an attorney with good recommendations from others.

EDIT: AARP link because it was the least biased piece of info I could find on the topic that wasn't a lead or referral generator: https://www.aarp.org/retirement/social-security/questions-an...

First: I have become an evangelist for disability insurance. I know it sucks but total award amounts seem to be higher and more sustainable.

LA would be hard, I feel for you.

Any suggestion on advocacy programs? I am in the Midwest if that helps.

I know that this depends on specific impairments, but have you found ways to do things you enjoy? This is the hardest thing for me right now: I don’t want to spend the rest of my life watching TV.

I do creative things I enjoy but I am unable to be really be physically active. I'm not really adjusted to the situation regardless, so I hope it changes for the better in the future but for now it is a plight.

Maybe you want to pursue a creative endeavor. Piano, art, and game development (albeit at a very slow pace and intermittently) have been helpful for me.

Prior to my last surgery, I got a high energy puppy. Total PITA. Saved my life. Hard to stay in bed when the doggo needs another walk.

Write. My career blew up early and I've clawed my way back, but can't imagine what it's like to be in your shoes, but..

I read a Priceonomics article entitled "What it's Like to Fail" and it really moved me during a low point in my life. The subject of the article wrote over 100 episodes of the TV show Roseanne, and wound up living in a van. The article, and the book he wrote to earn money, put a lot of emphasis on writing jobs; gig jobs. He wrote, wrote, and wrote more and slowly pulled himself back up.

https://priceonomics.com/what-its-like-to-fail/

Also, when I volunteered with the homeless I found the mormons to be an incredible resource. Most people don't know this, but the Mormon church is VERY giving and expects nothing in return. If you live near a larger city, the church has stores of food and supplies, and produce food to give to those in need.

Call your local mormon church, talk to the Bishop or a Missionary, and they will be slap happy over the moon to help. At the very least they can help supply food and other necessities.

One more thing, and this I know from professional experience: If you get turned down for SSDI, appeal. Most get turned down the first time, but nearly 100% of people are accepted on appeal.

When it comes to SDDI, don't do it alone, hire a firm that specializes in disability claims. Expect to be denied at first and to need to appeal.

I get contacted about once per month by SSDC services. They specialize in getting you Social Security Disability benefits. I have no idea what they charge, but they must be very good at it because one of my prior employers (Fortune 50) is paying them to try to get me onto SS to avoid paying my medical benefits (part of my retirement package). I'm never going to do it because I like my benefits the way they are.

https://www.ssdcservices.com/

This is pretty much exactly the case in Canada, too. You'll nearly always get denied on the first attempt. Then have a psychiatrist or someone at that level submit a report when you try the second time. Then you're far more likely to get it.

I have a feeling they get so many not-actually-disabled requests that they create a break from the first request to the second to force the person to determine if they are really disabled. In some cases, it's probably very true, but it punishes those who actually are disabled and needing the pressure relief of a regular income.

While it doesn't seem like it's a problem for you right now, money-wise, for those who can't afford to hire a firm, there are lawyers that will work on contingency and will take payment from a cut of your disability benefits.

Depending on where you are, areas with good social services tend to also have social/case workers who can help with disability claims, as well.

Felt like I should mention this in case someone is reading this thread who is in the same boat as the OP.

I want to present you with the Gate Theory of Pain [0].

Think of an area of your body as only being able to transmit one signal to your brain at a time, i.e., only one signal may pass through the gate. If you are experiencing chronic pain in an area, you can apply a different (non painful) stimulus to attempt to override the painful stimulus. To achieve this, many physicians recommend wearing and applying a TENS unit (transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulation) to the areas you experience pain. It is around $30 on amazon. Cheap solution that is worth a try.

There is more to say on this topic, and I am happy to discuss further. I wish you all the best.

[0] https://www.physio-pedia.com/Gate_Control_Theory_of_Pain

Sorry to hear about your pain =/ That really sucks. I have had friends in similar situations and without friends and family to help, they're pretty stuck... the US is terrible at taking care of its people. That's not on you, our social safety net just sucks. Have you looked into local instead of federal (city/state/NGO) support systems? Some areas have better support than others.

I'm glad to hear you at least are able to play video games and lurk on the net... having SOME activities and socialization is better than nothing!

That said, in terms of income... if you can do computer stuff, have you considered doing some freelance work from Upwork or similar? It's not consistent, offers no benefits, doesn't pay that great... but it's better than having no work at all. And maybe that would let you build up more of a portfolio for other companies to see.

Maybe the tech sector proper is at a glut right now, but other sectors (manufacturing, retail, etc.) still need devs & people with tech skills, and presumably the big ones are better about ADA accommodations. Maybe those are worth looking into, whether you want to go into the office or find a job that can accomodate you working from home?

-----

Also, work aside... it sounds like at least you have time on your hands, and have some mobility. Do you have national parks or monuments near you? Can you get an America the Beautiful National Park Access Pass? https://www.nps.gov/subjects/accessibility/access-pass.htm For a one-time $10 lifetime cost, it lets you access all of our national parks (which often have good ADA accommodations and interpretive systems) and similar recreational sites... a great way to spend a day or two away from the computer. A lot of them offer volunteer or limited part time work opportunities too. You won't get rich out of any of them, but it's a good way to feel better about the world and yourself and meet cool people to boot.

I was in your situation. Degenerative Disc Disease in the neck gave me unbelievable headaches every single day for half a year.

Without knowing anything about your disease, I know this is a moonshot, but try the carnivore diet for one month, then progress to the keto diet.

There are COUNTLESS reports online from people with autoimmune diseases and chronic pains from inflammation that all report that just eating eggs and beef basically cured them. I have experienced it on my own body and have seen 6 of my friends transform to vastly healthier selves as well.

I know beef is expensive, but so are your medical bills. If nothing else has worked, this is worth a shot.

Can you please recommend some readings?

Lots of good advice already, but if I can make another one -- find a different type of company to work for/with. Not all companies are, can be, or need to be the go hard get big get out YC companies. I don't really like or work for those companies anymore. They chew people up and spit them out.

There's tons of small companies that have real products and that are profitable but are structured with much more realistic growth expectations and targets. I work for one that is largely homebound or disabled people. We work when we're able to, we don't stress much when we can't work, and we do good work.

Get rid of your car. If you aren't working then you don't need it. The cost of registration, gas, insurance, maintenance, and the payments are things that you don't need. Use public transportation or Uber/Lyft. Your costs will be far less than now. SSDI became much easier to get a little over 10 years ago. You should be approved if you are unable to work and need financial support. Have you tried pain management? I have some experience with chronic pain, but I am still working thanks to some really great pain management doctors.

I've never had a medical condition that took me out of the workforce. It's sad that you've been dealt a bad hand in life. It's got to be hugely frustrating. You seem to have (correctly in my opinion) concluded that given your current limitations, there is no point in you applying for jobs. Most people who have been out of work for a year never return to the workforce. The majority of them might enjoy a "retired" sort of lifestyle. However, since you describe your life as "absolutely soul sucking", I would recommend that you remedy that by, from 9AM-5PM Mon-Fri, take the following drastic steps: Turn off the TV, video games, and aimless web browsing. It sounds like you are still capable of making money with online "gig" work of some type. Given your medical condition, you may or may not be able to perform the type of work you would enjoy. You should ask yourself what sorts of endeavors you are "world class" at, and then see if there are online gigs that are suitable for you. People who are detail oriented can make money at a wide range of online jobs. You should try to find an online gig type of job that makes you excited to get up in the morning. You need to make money, but you also need a reason to get up in the morning. I realize that the advice I've offered will not be easy. Most people in your situation would prefer to simply relax and take it easy. The easiest thing in life is to do nothing.

Any suggestions for finding such detail-oriented work? As a developer (mobile with some web and backend), I would love to find ongoing part-time work to provide enough income and free time to pursue other projects.

I understand where you’re coming from but, while pain is always present, it follows a pattern of flare-ups which aren’t easy to predict.

For example, I had a splitting migraine for 63 days straight, starting the day after Christmas this year. It took my neurologist designing a migraine-breaking drug cocktail to break it.

What’s in this cocktail? (sufficient to reproduce it)

I would solve money problem to not stress too much. Maybe try more social job/gig if you are burned by tech. Also to alievate stress I recommend trying "square breath" exercise. Reading less bullshit also helps to quiet mind.

I don't know what kind of pain you are experiencing but just as a litmus test I would try to go trough easier yoga positions to check out where your body has deficits and visit a good sport physioterapist. I also got very good set of exercises from personal trainer that unblocked full mobility in my body and mobily has a lot of downstream effects. One of my best money spent IMO, just after surgery that got rid of nasty medical condition (in gut). After this relaxing morning yoga wins and is free.

How does the pain stops you from working? Can't focus? Stressing too much? Can't move? I had kinda chronic pain(lighter one) pre surgery and only thing was that I was tired all the time and depressed but I could work kinda fine but my stress management was bad (as any stressor got amplified by pain).

From health perspective I would check spine > gut > fascia/tendons/joints/muscles in this order. You can also get common hormones/markers checked to see if everything is all right.

I can also recommend sauna, massage or floating for relaxation of musles and mind. Maybe some of these will help you.

There's not a lot more exhausting than chronic pain. I spend 6 months of the year not working because I need time for other parts of my life, otherwise all I do is work and rest. But after many years, I've found a good balance.

The best thing I found..

- Find out how much you can work. If it's even just 1 hour a day, you can still make a living.

- Make a list of people you don't want to lose contact with, you need to plan your visits and reaching out. Otherwise you'll end up alone, on your own. That makes everything harder.

- Find a job or business that can support async work. There's a lot more options these days than there were even 2 years ago. Startups, dodgy greyhat tech businesses, your own SaaS are all options. Find or create a niche. This is the hard one, but there's opportunity out there - you just need to find it. Blog posts on LinkedIn, Medium articles, get your name out there - this is a good start. Write about what you know, then write about what you're interested in. You're already on the front page of HN, so you're past the majority of people.

Right now you're out of money though so what you need right now is..

- To be able eat, keep shelter, and a source to support those things - in your case - internet and power.

Figure out those first. Because without them, you're screwed. Thankfully you're probably eligible for credit cards and all sorts of bad debt, obviously find the "best of the worst" option and go with that if you can't sell anything or loan from family.

I can't say I have been in a similar situation or that I am qualified to be giving specific advice. I'm glad you're seeking help from a trained professional. I will say this though:

Even though it may be hard to do so right now, try to focus on the things that are in your control at the moment. What was your skillset before your disability. Which of these skills do you still hold now?

Are there any disability inclusion legislations in your country you could take advantage of when looking for a job?

I'd even do some research. What is your long term goal? You said you were a founder in the past. Do you still want to do something similar to this? Try to see if there are founders that had similar situations to yours. You can even look into their lives and the road that they took before they got to where they currently are.

As for the short term things like being late on payments and bills, try to ask a friend or family member for help with your finances. They might be able to look at things more objectively and help you make cuts in certain areas until you get back up to where you may want to be.

This is all of course going to take a lot of work, and it's definitely going to have its challenges. This fight is not going to be easy but I assure you that it will be worthwhile. I wish you the very best.

Not to pry into OP's personal details, but I'd try some "moonshot" lifestyle changes if you haven't done so already, to see if anything helps fix your health issues. Keto diet is one everyone raves about, but it absolutely does have risks. (ex: one HN'er wrote about a relative going on keto and later having a triple bypass and chronic back inflammation, possibly due to way too many omega-6 fats)

Keto can be a bad diet even after removing sugar and most carbs if one eats keto junkfood. Any person that had success with keto also understood and some point that food quality, and particularly fat quality, is a must. Instead of omega-6 from seed oils one should supplement with omega-3s via high quality fish oil. The bulk of the fat should be saturated and some monounsaturated fat.

Keto with good fats and eliminating keto snacks (and the snacking behavior altogether), can work absolute miracles. There's no question eliminating sugar and even most carbs will greatly diminish inflammation and improve energetic output via ketones and bypass the overworked carb pathways.

Anyway, such a moonshot diet exists, and it's zerocarb keto, some call ketovore, meaning mostly meat very high fat diet. Reddit has a r/zerocarb sub for the generic (not deliberately high fat) version.

I'm going to contact OP by email because I have a lot of experience with this, along with other advice for supplementation, etc.

Sorry to read this.

You don't mention the cause of your chronic pain, but I'm guessing it's probably related to startup stress & long hours of tense work in front of a computer screen i.e. RSI. I'll add my experience here in case it's useful.

I went through several years of severe, disabling RSI / chronic pain in my 20s, about 6 years ago.

Have written two blog articles about it.

http://edgecase.net/articles/an_overview_of_repetitive_strai...

http://edgecase.net/articles/further_recovery_from_rsi

Recovered from 1-2% working capability to 90% (with some ongoing costs e.g. visits to osteopath).

There's certainly a mental component (you can get stuck in an emotional loop), so I haven't ruled out Sarno, mental recalibration etc. But I will say that dealing with the pain via direct loosening treatments of knotted muscle is almost definitely the right first step.

Hope you find these articles useful, and good luck.

It seems like you've done a lot of the most reasonable easy stuff already (lowering expenses, etc.)

I would assume an IC job with a single employer is easier to manage than founder or side projects or multiple consulting clients. Probably something where physical presence is required might actually be better (given that the rest of your life sounds unfulfilling). Not sure how limiting the chronic pain is for this, but finding something where you are provided housing/office/etc. at some location to do whatever work might be a good thing for a while (i.e. the tech equivalent of a remote oilfield job). These exist, but not sure how best to search for them. Might be a chance to transition from backend web dev to embedded, too.

(I was depressed/broke after a big startup failed and the dotcom collapse and crazy ex-gf in the bay area back in 2002; I went to Iraq/Afghanistan/etc for ~a decade to do tech stuff to get away from it.)

Good luck! (Also there's presumably some YC resource? idk, haven't really kept up on YC internal stuff for a while.)

Could you volunteer any of your time to help an organization that does something that is important to you? If you can, I would recommend connecting to a non-profit or public benefit organization and seeing if they have needs that you can fill, even on a limited time basis. If possible, try and do this in-person, so that you can see the fruits of your work, and the witness the appreciation of those who receive it.

Volunteering to help others has several benefits; You will have a tangible and meaningful impact on others; You will see that your skills are useful, and you are capable of employing them; You will form real human connections with other people in a context different than the one you're currently experiencing.

Another outcome of helping other people is that you will form a network people who know about you and what you can do. It's possible to use that network to earn a modest living, doing side jobs and small contracts. This is not the end-game of volunteering, that is still the help you provide to others, but it's a nice side-effect anyways.

Since you are someone with technology skills, I can tell you that there are many non-profit organizations who need a little bit of tech help, or a lot of tech help, and cannot find someone to do the things they need for nothing, or a even a reasonable amount of money. Don't be afraid to work for free, the thanks you will get are more than worth it.

There's a talk by Sandie Metz that I've shared with a lot of people called "Madame Sandie tells your future"[0] and I would give that a watch, it's quite inspirational and may help you to shift your perspective in a way that helps.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOM5_V5jLAs&t=216s

Sorry to hear of your situation and wish you the best.

> I live as cheaply as I possibly can at this point. I live with family and only pay for absolute necessities.

My advice: sell the car or make the car generate income (delivery or app driving). Without income and near the bottom of your bank account is not the time to be driving a car new/expensive enough to have a loan on.

First of all, I’m very sorry to hear about your situation. My wife has chronic pain and had to give up a career she loved so I have some second hand experience with this.

Can you code? If so please email me and I may be able to give you some work paid per deliverable. You can work on your own schedule without pressure. Nothing huge, just enough to get you started.

Email in profile

> Can you code? If so please email me and I may be ble to give you some work paid per deliverable. You can work on your own schedule without pressure.

I'm not the OP, but I'm in a somewhat similar situation, and yes I can code, but my useful hours are very limited by chronic fatigue.

Do you think that what you're describing is generalizable ? I mean do you think that there are enough people who could use the kind of work you are describing so that it could benefit the, probably very many of us, who are in the OP's situation, rather than just be a one off for one person ?

Please get in touch if you are interested. I think there is definitely enough work, but I think you need very talented managers to enable this kind of work mode. I would argue there is a shortage of high enough quality managers, and no clear incentive to train up managers to this quality.

I've been in the same situation for a very long time so I understand and feel for you. I've often considered creating something for people in our situation (a team that work together to cover the times when a member is unable to work), but I'm not a founder and don't know where to start. I realize it's not a short term solution but if you are interested or just want to talk, you can email me at my username at Gmail.

BTW, an attorney for the SSDI appeal isn't a bad idea. There are downsides but they do navigate it all the time and the deck is not stacked in you favor. Also find a pain specialist with legal experience; it's important they know what to say since there are no scans or x-rays or blood tests that can say why you are laying in bed in tears waiting to be able to take the next pain med.

What are your professional skills? I work for a chronic pain management startup and we have a lot of needs.

Backend web-centric, leadership, plus other misc things I learned as a founder. Can you drop me a message? I can imagine a chronic pain startup being a place that would understand the needs of a chronic pain patient.

tyvm for the shrimp at gmail dot com

>>I started having problems with chronic pain...

I know this is a long shot but if you've not tried it it's worth a shot..

Buy some quality local raw honey and start taking a couple teaspoons a day. You should know in a couple weeks if it's helping.

I had been dealing with severe shoulder pain for close to a year when an old friend told to try raw honey. I was hurting bad enough to give it a shot. It worked, and it didn't take long compared to how long I'd been hurting.

Since then I've told two friends of mine about it who told me were dealing pain, one was just two weeks from surgery for it. It worked for both of them too.

You might also look into getting some Manuka honey. The antibacterial properties are a bit different than local honey so if local doesn't work that might.

I can tell you it worked for the three of us.

You can dig yourself out of this hole. It's a lot of work. You'll have to do things that are challenging, which make you uncomfortable.

I know you can. Asking for help is a huge step. You clearly want to get to a better place.

Ya, you'll need a lawyer for SSDI. I solicited referrals, contacted about 20, interviewed a handful, and then ultimately picked this one https://www.ddmglaw.com/about/ Look for someone similar close to you. Though everything's done remote now, so location might not matter.

You probably qualify for Medicaid too. Ditto food stamps.

Contact everyone to arrange late payments. You'll be surprised how accomodating some will be. For instance, I paused my mortgage for 9 months, and with the COVID carve outs, it was just some forms.

Your utilities might have special rates for low income. In my case, again, it was just some forms.

As for pain...

All I can say is don't accept "no" or "i don't know". Someone somewhere has the answers you need.

Last year I enrolled in Swedish Hospital's Pain Services program. It covered a huge amount of material. Stuff like tai chi, breathing, graded motor imagery, the latest in pain science, and more. I nicknamed the program "Pain College".

Pain College worked for me. Amazing. Beforehand, I would have bet against it.

Here it is. https://www.swedish.org/services/pain-services Don't judge them by their web site; they have no control over it. And it certainly does not reflect what they actually do. When I first saw it, I thought "ya ya ya, I've done all that already." I'm glad I enrolled anyway.

I'll checkout all the other tips and links. My next hurdle is some myofascial pain. I'm always learning new stuff to try.

Sorry to hear about your situation, I have not been in your shoes. If you are able to work a few hours remotely have you considered teaching? Maybe something like https://outschool.com or local kids (post on Facebook, Nextdoor) and help kids get ready for AP computer science or something. I use codehs.com for their curriculum and learning platform, and volunteer with a few kids of friends.

It will take some time to startup snd get reputation on outschool but if you find enrichment with teach kids this could be something to consider.

I don't think it would be enough money to make a career but I'd you need to offset some bills it could be a quick way.

it’s interesting that no one in the comments suggets maybe we as a society should try to find a place where we could plan how to implement ubi. considering TLAs are always going to infiltrate such a group of people to stop that from happening (on twitter or elsewhere) it would be reasonable for people to discuss the massive fundamental problems with our society and how situations like the one this poster finds himself in number in the hundreds of thousands if not millions. and most of them just kill themselves. maybe some people here might be able to make the mental connection that this is going to affect their own loves at some point even if you have a cushy software job at the moment

Lean into your network. Use the fact you have access to YC. Find a company that will give you a job doing what you can with the hours you're able to do. A killer network like the one that's open to you is something most people don't have.

Here is an interesting news article I saw recently about chronic pain, in case it is useful. It seemed like it could be a balanced look at the field of managing it, now, for what it may be worth: https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/27/health/haider-warraich-chroni...

I became disabled due to chronic fatigue syndrome, and as I progressed until gradually unable to keep a job, I also went through what you are of being denied disability benefits, but a good doctor (specialist) helped me w/ an attorney referral, which along with letters from former coworkers. HR and family as to my condition, some careful record-keeping (hard and draining), and being able to stay with family until things stabilized more, were a big help when I went to the administrative law judge finally about it. My security is church and family, family and church (and given the government's track record, that is where it will stay--maybe states could do better, but I don't think the US fed ever could--long set of experiences there).

So I can sympathize: even though our conditions are different, I think there is some overlap. For my situation at least, graded exercise therapy or the belief it is all in one's head, are very unhelpful ideas (much could be said).

But now things have stabilized, I believe I will get better eventually, and there is hope for me, and there is hope for you. Don't ever give up.

Here is another recent article (related to overcoming depression with a multi-pronged approach, not trying to do everything at once but in thoughtful steps), which I thought was very good (has some religious aspects, which are actually relevant): https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/liahona/2022/07/07...

Again, don't give up. It can really get to where things are OK.

ps: I don't know if this applies to you, but since there is overlap between us (my condition is like a permanent flu: brain fog, general body aches, slow at everything, oversensitive to stimuli like noises or movement):

Learning pacing (managing activity levels, following a sustainable routine) and general routines for managing life have been very important for me to get to a stable, somewhat predictable state. There is a web site that covers the pacing reasons and strategies for chronic fatigue people really well--if you want I can dig up the URL. And staying organized within those routines (managing todo lists so I dont forget things etc) has been necessary, because I just can't keep the essentials and planned tasks all in my head now, since I do them so slowly and gradually.

And practicing good mental habits (a learning process, over time), and reinforcing them with notes that I review periodically (anki, and other in the computer, and some daily with a set of mnemonics that grew up over time) has been necessary and very helpful also, to not get in a bad set of thoughts, but to respond in a good/planned way.

I would be very interested in that link.

http://cfsselfhelp.org

My doctor (Lucinda Bateman, a CFS research coordinator kind of person and founder of a center, BHC aka https://batemanhornecenter.org which has other materials including a CFS self-care brochure kind of thing, and ed. materials for doctors--they provide education that counts in professional training hours I gather, etc--not a cure so far though) recommended the site once. I have very many notes & other URLs, not all of known quality. More ideas than one can try reasonably, in a lifetime, I guess, so in large part I am waiting for COVID-19 ("long covid") research to shed more light on CFS, and answers to my prayers, and I expect to get better.

My efforts at routines (work vs. rest, doing things one at a time, per plan and in order), mental habits etc have expanded greatly beyond that. There is some stuff at my web site (in profile) which has my email in the footer if you ever want to discuss details, ideas, or questions further. It's still hard but I feel peaceful and pointed in the right direction. Best to you.

I am exactly in the same boat, except I live in the UK with my British spouse (I'm American). I've been slowly rebuilding myself after heart surgery, trying to build up my physical stamina, getting therapy for depression, and learning the new JS hotness to be able to get better work to support my wife and I. Except the Home Office here fucked up my visa and it looks like I might get sent back to the US, where I have no home, no access to the medical care I need, and my wife (who is also disabled with chronic pain) needs me.

I got no advice, man, but you're not alone here. Being a 44 year old web dev with chronic pain issues sucks. I'm pulling for you.

Not sure how it works in the UK but maybe contact an attorney or your local MP.

I wish the OP the very best. I can't offer any more suggestions, as I suspect there is a great deal more to the story. I am quite aware that finding ourselves in this kind of hole is devastating and humiliating. Getting out, often requires a lot of work.

I have known (and still do know) folks in the same boat. My own "origin story" is one that has some ... exciting bits ...

Some folks have managed to do well in life, despite the challenges; some, not so well. Not everyone can climb out on their own, and the type of help we need, varies greatly, on the kinds of things we don't want to talk about or face.

Will probably get downvoted here, but read a self-help book.

Awaken the Giant Within by Tony Robbins is one of the better ones based on the various areas of your life. (Raising Standards, Limiting Beliefs, Change your Strategy)

If you don't read this book, there's plenty of others regarding how our mental state can do more damage than good. Some are even associated with chronic physical pain such as back pain or migraines.

For as little as $10 or a trip to the local library (or online version), you can potentially change your life by reading a book with something foreign to you that you try and it suddenly works.

Consider moving to a cheaper country.

By selling everything you own in the USA, you might end up with many many years of living expenses in say Thailand.

In todays world of remote work, even getting a tiny number of consulting jobs, at US rates because you have (presumably) a US education/work history, will then pay the bills.

Many countries have small populations of American/British people you could join. Check visa eligibility first - some countries are far easier to get into than others.

Obviously this probably depends on the whole family wanting to move - and thats a big decision for you to all make together.

I'm sorry but if he's selling personal possessions to fund a car payment he's already behind on, he doesn't have the money to move to another country, even a cheap one.

But if you move country, you will no longer need that expensive USA house and car, so you can sell them and get a far cheaper house and car in the country you move to.

If he had a lot of equity, he would not be behind on payments, he probably would have refinanced, and you are neglecting the upfront costs of an international move. You might eventually save money, but that's not super helpful to this person's situation.

"An international move" doesn't need to be as expensive as you make it sound.

Once you sort out a visa, you can literally buy a plane ticket, pack a backpack, and get on a plane.

Bali has recently introduced a nomad visa:

https://www.euronews.com/travel/amp/2022/06/24/balis-new-dig...

If OP were able to find part time work online, moving to a tropical climate in a new environment could potentially help their condition.

The biggest challenge would be medication, but even with that they could probably figure it out.

Living in a different environment can definitely help with your health. IMO, if they've been stuck where they are for years, it's not a silly idea at all to make a complete change of environment and see how they do.

I don't think you're being at all realistic. Have you tried an international, inter-cultural move, while disabled and broke? The post mentioned "I live with family", so I don't think selling "that expensive USA house" is an option, neither is there likely much equity in the car (already behind on a payment).

be carefull with this, if something goes wrong in a country with weak rule of law, and customs you dont understand... A vulnerable person might not be in the best position to travel

This is not a good thing to do.

Disabled and unemployed, not speaking the language, he will be trapped in a bad situation there with no one to help. It will be increasingly hard for him to come back to USA.

Also, CoL in major metro cities in a lot of these countries can be as high as that in USA. See cost of living in Europe or world major cities. I don’t think you can easily transfer money either.

I will give non-standard advice.

I would argue against all the people saying you should read John Sarno or other mind-body connection books. Been there, done that, did not help with tendonitis. There are alternatives thesis that explain why those books help certain people and how the advice did not in fact help them. A good exposition can be found here:

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/BgBJqPv5ogsX4fLka/the-mind-b...

Now on your problem. If it is related to chronically pain, you could try to come to Chile and get physical therapy for cheap. The medical system on the US cannot afford to pay for physical therapy, but can afford the pill subscription. There are friends in the US that have used pills for month for what known physical therapy exists, it is sad.

Locals tend to use FONASA, which is like the NHS for the UK. Paying from your own pocket (private) it is not cheap for locals, but for north-americans I argue it is. I would say

- 40 USD for the private medical session of diagnosis.

- 140 USD for 2 months of physical sessions (3 times a week).

You can heal a lot of stuff with those cost.

Plus the attention has a good cost / benefit ratio. Sure it is no mayo clinic, but you get cured in the end. The physical therapist (kinesiologo) I ended up attending was a college professor on the side. This was in Quilpue, not santiago! Plus he had great attention too!

I had RSI. The physical therapist uncompressed the muscles with needles and low voltage electricity. That made my brain realize "oh, those muscles _are_ overloaded" and uncompressed them; it is no acupuncture mumbo-jumbo. Then gave me a routine of exercise to develop the other half of the muscles that were overworked, so they got aligned. Afterwards on the third week I was back at work. I have to do complementary exercises every three days as a precaution (stretching, weights etc), but certainly this is sustainable. I had to do that anyways after 30.

I can see myself working for a long time. I don't feel afraid of hacking on OSS at night ;-)

I had bad RSI and lost the ability to work like I used so I adapted, can't force anything. I was homeless and worked at McDonalds and Taco Bell before getting a car and delivering pizza. Now I'm back at a startup and can work again. If I push myself too hard my hands will hurt so I don't. Only advice is fight with everything you have but don't push yourself harder than will allow you to rebuild and recover your health. America sucks. So does most of the world. There is no country to go to and be free in. Good luck!

If you are suffering from RSI, you might be interested in checking out programming by voice solutions like

https://talonvoice.com/

https://github.com/dictation-toolbox/Caster

https://serenade.ai/

Deadlifts fixed mine

You could try making money on a youtube channel, document your journey. Could help a lot of people and make a few hundred dollars on the side. See if there any exercise that you can tolerate. Yoga or kayaking something to keep you moving. Fishing could help with getting enough protein on a tight budget or even something like trying to grow microgreens on your window sill could help you eat healthier. Instapot pressure cooker for cooking beans and rice would also help to get enough protein on a budget diet.

Been there, still there… Also no idea what to do. I've been just doing my best to learn a buncha open source related skills (Blender modeling, Python scripting, Linux administration, etc) to try my best to keep some relevant skills alive, but the pain has directly affected my sleep, which has directly affected my skills to a severe degree, so it's slow going. Still trying though, because I'm just not able to completely give up for some stupid reason, no matter how hopeless things appear.

It seems to be a little out of fashion with the HN crowd, but maybe meditation can help you a little on your way. It is taught that pain is inevitable but suffering is optional. Trained Buddhist monks can endure immolation, see for example https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th%C3%ADch_Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_%C4...

Good luck, hope you find something helpful here.

I wonder if one could get oneself a piece of land far enough from cities and raise chickens or a cow or a couple of goats. A garden or similar helps.

In other words, back to good old days!

Is it practical?

Not entirely practical in USA or Canada I think, a whole ton of regulations I think would prevent you from doing it, unless you spent a lot of money.

Let me know if anybody actually thinks otherwise, I never tried it.

Maybe, maybe not, but worth a try. Consult a medical doctor. You might have a major vitamin D deficiency? https://vitamind3-cholecalciferol.com/how-to-estimate-your-v...

As always, consult a medical docter, don’t rely on internet medical advice blabla etc

What are you interested in work wise, do you already have the required skills or can upskill? Perhaps gigs related to your skills? If you need to build up portfolio you could volunteer? I think everything is easier when you have a team, would you be able to join any groups online or otherwise with similar interests or disabilities? Best of luck and let us know how it goes, you’re not alone!

Did you enjoy YC? Could you do it again?

That sounds like a really difficult situation. What sort of jobs would you be interested in? What do you think are your relative strengths & skills?

> Further, all of my experience is in startups and that makes me less palatable to larger companies, but larger companies have more options to accommodate disabled people.

My understanding is lots of large enterprise/legacy companies are constantly looking for startup experience since they want to replicate the startup success with their own projects and often consider their own projects to be startsup.

> My understanding is lots of large enterprise/legacy companies are constantly looking for startup experience

They certainly say that, but in my experience it is not true. They want cubicle monkeys with a CS degree that can do leet code.

For the tech team but not for management. They love some fancy consultants with some vague set of achievements.

For your chronic pain, I recommend reading "The Mind Body Prescription" by Dr John Sarno. Saved my sanity and my career 7 years ago.

Although it doesn't help the OP, another option in private LTD. I knew someone who had terrible bad pain that even surgery didn't help and they used their employers LTD and it was easier to get approved along with much higher payments than SSDI. And if structured right, its tax free. So even if running a startup or consulting, you should make sure you have LTD coverage.

Everyone (in America at least) should make sure they have LTD coverage of some sort if they can. The public benefits options just aren’t there. This was a mistake I made.

https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwiDnY6F-eH4AhUECH0...

Sorry to hear that, after my startup failed I also had a very hard time, didn't want to take benefits (I thought that was below me, idiot me) and was eating the very cheapest Aldi stuff and got renting problems (no rent payed) and all credit cards and bank accounts cancelled. Got some money from my mom (they are the best). Luckily a friend gave me a job.

Have you considered a second or third tier company.

Some small SaaS that is looking for full stack etc.

Consulting and startups are wayyy more stressful than changing a tooltip verbiage in a 2 week sprint (seriously the bar for full stack senior engineer so low you could trip on it at many places).

You could be burned out and physical pain can certainly be a manifestation of mental issues.

Contact your city sometimes they have programs for people in your situation.. recently at my work we were contacted through one of these programs about a an older dev in a similar situation as yourself. We interviewed them for an internship and if we take them on the city will pay their wage for the length of the internship.

A way to make a few bucks for your side projects might be to do polls/surveys and get paid via Paypal or Amazon vouchers:

https://www.householdmoneysaving.com/free-paypal-money/

> I can't even afford to toss a few bucks into side projects so I at least have something to do with my time...

Lots of people work on side projects with no money nowadays - the situation is different than it was 10 years ago. Even putting a beta out there is doable for free with AWS credits or the free tier.

Economic hardships can take a heavy toll on one's mental health.

When you are calm, cool, and collected, take stock of what you have left, i.e. money, time, skills, health. Put them to good use. Learn to be frugal with your time. To me, time and health are more important than money.

Downshifting may be an option.

On the work side, I am surprised no one has suggested freelancing. Yes, bidding on sites like Upwork isn't a great way to make money especially in the USA, but given your situation, it's a way to earn something working on your terms and no more that you want or can.

Do Uber, or Uber eats if you don’t want to deal with people too much. It will make you more than enough to sustain yourself with your experience.

Put yourself on upwork (I assume you know programming).

If not, take up an administrative job, remote if you can find it in HR or recruiting or something similar.

If you are able to push through the pain and exercise, I have heard it can be helpful, even if it's just light stretching. You might also want to get checked for sleep apnea. I know far too many comorbid cases of chronic pain and sleep disorders.

I mean it must be obvious but the source of your problems seems to be your chronic pain. What is the source of it?

Do you need to go undergo an operation and don't have the resources for it? If not, do medications help? At least to help you get work done?

This chronic pain - what is the cause of it? Are you diagnosed with fibromyalgia?

Fibromyalgia and CFS have been tossed around but never officially diagnosed.

The practical experience that I have is frequent exhaustion from things that should be easy, difficulty focusing, flu-like aches and tons of migraines.

I've lived through this myself. There is hope. I had the great fortune of being able to live with family until I could weather the storm. It turned out I needed to de-stress by life, live with accepting people, and eat delicious and healthy food over the coarse of a few years. I had destroyed by mind and body burning the candle at both ends with little to no nourishment (physically and non-physically), and the tax man came.

Every hope for your success..

Fibromyalgia, CFS, .. labels like that are used when the doctors have no clue, just give up and don't wanna look further into your issues. Then they blame it on stress and psychological issues. That's 1000 % wrong.

Most likely you have a virus or bacterial infection that hasn't been detected yet. I'm in a very similar situation like you so I'm speaking from personal experience. Ever been bitten by a tick? Do you have gut issues?

Read this, very important: https://www.hardtowrite.com/pathogens/

As for earning money: Assuming you're too unwell to consult, you can do mindless tasks on Appen. https://connect.appen.com/qrp/public/home Things like checking search results for Bing or Google, improving Apple & Google maps. Pay is between $15, $24 / hour depending on the project.

Doctors checked me out for various things and then sent me to a psychologist who declared I had “health anxiety” when I was developing adult-onset type 1 diabetes. I had been in pain for months, every day, and lost tons of weight, then turned it around with a very specific diet (coincidentally low carb) and they acted like I was just being paranoid about food. It’s maddening how some doctors, for one reason or another, disregard almost anything a patient says.

You should all (also OP) look into Fabry. It's a genetic disease which for some only shows up in adulthood. My Mum went through decades of chronic pain and though she had Fibromyalgia. There are dozens of papers showing how Fabry is often misdiagnosed as Fibro.

I had increasing difficulty with fatigue for years and it turned out to be Celiac disease. Then, I got type 1 diabetes after going GF to treat Celiac, which was a slow onset which made things very difficult for 1-2 years. My situation isn’t too different than what you describe, actually, even after diagnoses and treatment.

Have you been checked out for celiac? I had all sorts of unexplained health effects but the #1 thing was feeling exhausted all the time and falling asleep after lunch every day.

Those symptoms sound very similar to the fatigue I have, but I have type 2 diabetes and the fatigue started very suddenly after a brief viral infection. I've had the usual tests for Celiac but they were negative. I have seen some signs of improvement on a very low carb diet but it hasn't been consistent and I have trouble sticking to that kind of diet due to cost coupled with the fact that, as an amputee, it's hard for me to get to grocery stores.

My aunt had this exact same symptoms. In her case, after years, she was diagnosed with diabetes, which some prior exams had missed somehow. Treating for diabetes fixed her chronic pain.

It's just an anecdote, of course. I hope you get cured :)

Have you done a sleep study to check for sleep apnea?

I had similar except the migraines, from gallstones and cervical spine misalignment. I suffered for over a decade, but never gave up hope. Once the obvious pain showed up in the gallbladder and I found a good chiropractor, my issues are almost completely gone.

All I can say is focus on fixing the problem. Do whatever you need to do to diagnose yourself, heal yourself, and focus. Going to work through the pain an fatigue was tolerable only because it kept me able to pay the chiro/surgery bills.

Self diagnosis comes through process of elimination sometimes. Try eliminating or adding different things from/to your diet for a month, one at a time.

Hey. Sorry to hear about your issues. I would love to help, but I don't know how to.

I am based in Europe, but used to live in the US. Is there a specific type of job, even if part-time, that you think you could do well?

Perhaps look for freelance gigs that are paid by the task, not the hour. Then it won't matter that you might need to take a little longer because you are dealing with the chronic pain.

Good luck

If you are in California and/or you are a veteran, then you have two avenues to explore. Both those things being true for me made it possible for me to stay off the street.

If you're looking for part time work in tech, if you're patient with upwork and similar sites you can find roles for 10-20 hours a week that pay decently.

I suffered with chronic pain related issues for some years. I might have some insights, feel free to shoot me an email if you feel up to it. Mail is in my profile.

Is there something you could do on fiverr or upwork? As these abstract you from the customer a little more, and good comms and service will get you a long way.

I’m sorry to hear about your situation. It may seem hopeless at times but remember working at startups is quite challenging and you did that - and faced challenges lots of people wouldn’t care to try to.

Your current assets and your psychology are two different things. Every improvement you can wring out with the latter, could be the piece of strength you need to deal with the other. Seek out any way you can to build up mentally bit by bit. Even little things if they can make a difference.

I’m no expert on this stuff but I wanted to let you know you’re not alone out there.

Wow downvoted for trying to be encouraging? Guess I need to practice that more, I honestly intended the words compassionately.

Since there are already lots of good ideas in this thread, here's an off-the-wall suggestion for income: cam modelling. A lot of people in similar situations (struggling to hold down a steady job due to needs for flexibility around disability, health, family, etc.) get into it because it can be a quick source of income. "Camming: Money, Power, and Pleasure in the Sex Work Industry" by Angela Jones is a great study of the industry and people's journeys if you want to read more about this.

What kinds of things are you still capable of? Can you walk dogs? Operate a pressure washer? Narrate audio books?

Can you do a dev-adjacent job like SCRUM-master or Agile coach? Corporations seem to be big into that the days.

If i were you I will do a job which while I'm doing it I lost the time and it's give me energy

>I can't even afford to toss a few bucks into side projects Why do you need money for side projects?

Is this a permanent disability or something that can be recovered with a lifestyle change?

Could you try side-gigs like online life coach, programming lessons, code review?

Say you are going to the gym 4 times a week, then one day, while running, you feel a sudden pain in your knee. Knee swells but nothing too bad, except that every single time you move your knee, some sharp, nagging pain comes back and gets you to stop whatever you're doing. You then touch your knee, move it left and right, and scratch at the pain. Makes it a bit worse.

You should rest, says your aunt and her bridge friends. You don't really want to rest, but at the same time... that pain! Right? Can't really go to the gym now.. could I?

So, you stay home for the next two weeks. After two weeks, the pain is still there; you leave it for another two weeks before going to the doctor. Doc can't find anything wrong, so you get Ibuprofen for 2 weeks and rest, perhaps a little contention for your knee. After the two weeks are done, you feel a bit better, and you gained a bit of weight, so it's really time to go back to the gym.

You go back to the gym, pumped. First move, bam! Knee pain comes back. As sharp as ever. WTF.

Thing is. Not moving for a month or two and avoiding the pain has made all the muscles around your knee grow weak. Your threshold for pain is lowered by the inactivity in the limb, and your general fitness has severely diminished.

Is having knee pain as bad as your story? Of course not. Is that a helpful story? Well, maybe, you tell me.

I believe in both cases letting the pain control your life is a mistake. Even if it is the worst pain imaginable, do whatever you can to work AROUND it. What does it mean in your case?

Your pain does not forbid you to take care of your lifestyle: - Do not indulge in useless behaviours that kill your soul and increase your self-deprecation: (re)Build a discipline. - Eat well, sleep well and rise with the sun. - Do every bit of physical activity you can, regularly, like clockwork.

Can you do 20 pushups? 10? 1? Well, then it goes in. Can you run for 5 min ? You start there. Can you stretch your back ? Bam, in. You find out what you can do and make it a doable and improvable routine that you do EVERY SINGLE DAY, in the morning, preferably.

Work around the pain. Do not let it control you, build what can be built.

Your pain does not forbid you to take care of your mindset: - Find goals, start small, and keep growing - E.g. "I can't hold a job" --> that's a useless generalisation. Change it to rational thinking: are you cognitively diminished ? yes/no ? if yes, how much? Are there job for cognitively diminished people like you ? (probably, given that half the population has an IQ below 100). Are you physically dimished ? yes/no ? How much? Can you find a job that would work? Remote? Coding ? Job X ? You don't know how to do X ? Replace video games by Coursera. Get a certificate in X. Is it you can't keep a job because you aim too high ? Would it be ok to aim lower ? How low ? How much time would it be ok to be there ? - Keep a vision of what the future could be. Even with the pain, even with all the failures and broken dreams. Find out what it could be as if your life depended on it.

Anyways. There is no silver bullet. You are, or have been, at a threshold for a while, a fork in the road between extinction and rebirth.

My advice is to take the Ibuprofen or whatever antidepressant you can get, whatever can help you stand a bit taller and feel a bit less of the pain. But go back to the gym, work around whatever pain is left after that, and wean yourself off everything you thought you needed to go through the days. Progressively.

Also, obviously. Stop taking benzodiazepine, weed, alcohol or any other drugs. Get help if you can. You are in a fight for the rest of your life.

Good luck.

Anyone downvoting this post is a douche, because this, fellas, is pure gold.

You're welcome.

Lots of credulity in here. "Worst of all, my life is pretty drab." I'll bet.

I wonder what the person who watches him play video games all day thinks about his inability to work due to "chronic pain".

Tell me you've never been depressed without telling me you've never been depressed.

where do you experience the pain? does it get worst or better on certain occasions?

chronic pain: Check your sitting posture and blood flow, especially upper neck. It's a modern-day epidemic among screen workers:

https://getradiantlife.com/poor-posture-a-modern-day-epidemi...

Have you been chronically depressed before? Paragraph two comes across extremely snobby and out of touch in regards to depressed people.

that wasn't my intention. edited the post.

Thank you

I have been where you are. It's terrible and the United States is a terrible place to have these kinds of problems.

I have a few thoughts.

1. Focus on finances. You say you're behind on your car payments. With the upside-down state of the current car market, there's an outside chance you could sell it at a profit, maybe clear 10k. (I have no idea what kind of car you have, but 10k > sales price is not unusual right now.) Maybe you could sell it, pay off the note, and have enough left to buy a very basic used car?

2. SSDI. A disability law firm can be helpful. I used them for LTD but they exist for SSDI as well. For LTD they work on a commission of your back pay once you are approved. YMMV.

3. Part-time work - at this point your focus needs to be on survival. What can you do, that's relatively in demand? Start there, worry about perfection in your career path another time. P/T flexible jobs for disabled people -- that's a need that's been unmet for years, but there are some developments in it. Try https://www.wearecapable.org// .

4. Keep up with the therapy. Also investigate nutritional deficiencies, thyroid imbalances, etc. Fixing them won't "fix" your problems, but it'll give you more physical and mental strength to deal with them. For more info see my short essay: https://radiosof.com/2019/09/22/some-interesting-tools-for-d.... The embedded links also link to some other essays on genetic and nutritional components to depression. Some of these can also affect inflammatory response as well. So finding out if you're bad at methylation and supplementing with B-12 shots and methylfolate (for example) could also potentially reduce some pain levels somewhat. Which would then allow you to think and strategize more clearly.

5. Depending on your issues, it's great to have really smart, genius-level doctors on your side. The Center for Complex Diseases in Mountain View is one such a place. I'm not sure chronic pain is their specialty, but perhaps you can call them and ask. I think Stanford has a pain clinic as well?

You're used to the YC world, where they talk about "10x" coders. Well, there are "10x" doctors. Once you get into the world of invisible hard-to-treat illnesses and you're trying to qualify for disability, you NEED a 10x doctor. First, b/c they might help you improve. And second, because they see people like you all day and they are going to be better at helping you qualify for disability than a regular primary care doctor.

I would recommend calling the Center for Complex Diseases, and asking if they cover patients like you, and if not, who they recommend. Then put the very expensive appointments on your credit card or borrow money, do what you have to. They are an investment in your ability to qualify for SSDI. A few thousands now may guarantee $18k/ year for the foreseeable future.

6. This website is the Bible for people navigating disability applications: https://howtogeton.wordpress.com/

Good Luck!

At least you're not American. Oh wait ...

This is brainstorming for what I might try if I were in your situation:

- try contracting! There are a lot of people who need a basic MVP written and do not have the skills themselves. Not everyone has a tight deadline, either, and if you're paid hourly, if you are too tired to work one day, no problem, they just don't pay you. Just set good expectations ("I can only commit to 20 hrs/wk, but may be able to do more", no need to mention why). Between skills, availability, and rate, there is a lot of room to maneuver: a very skilled US developer who can only work 10 hrs/wk but who charges a low rate might be quite worth it. (But choose clients carefully) I know Toptal has had a lot of these kind of jobs, and I expect the other agencies also have a lot.

- look for companies with lower expectations. From what I've heard (i.e. HN comments :), often small, non-tech companies might find even basic stuff really helpful. Also, big companies have a lot of time spent not-coding.

- you could specialize in understanding code to fix bugs. Fixing problems in million line code-bases involves a lot of reading and experiments, not banging out code. This pairs well with contracting, but this is also an asset to big companies.

- if your pain is physical (e.g. wrists), you might try voice input. My brother knows a blind developer (who uses Linux [!]), he presumably isn't typing 100 WPM, but is reliably employed.

- consider leveraging your technical abilities in other fields that don't involve typing/standing/sitting. As I understand it, technical sales (e.g. selling devices to engineers) requires understanding how the products benefit the customers and visiting customers, not cranking out code. "Applications engineering" is sort of like high-level tech support and consulting, and some engineering companies have a group like this.

- consulting to fellow founders. I'm sure you have something to offer.

- management or PM, and I assume you have experience with at least one of these as a founder. You can also do this as contract work; I've seen contract work for PMs, small team managers, and even CTO. (Presumably the CTO contract position was for a rather small company which was either too small to need a FT CTO, or bridging the gap until they found someone permanent.)

- tutoring HS math/science/programming. From what I've heard, tutoring rates can be quite good, especially if you target the market that can pay.

- if you need money right now, $1500/month at part time (80 hrs/month) is $19/hr, which is fairly achievable. This isn't fun or glamorous, but I know second-hand that doing phone support for AT&T, Verizon, etc. is paying about this; I expect they are always looking for people. My friend, who took the job (half-time) because of some physical limitations, went through a month of frustration, but came to an understanding of what the business goals/limitations are. He also quickly got promoted to trainer, so he enjoyed his role more. Not something you'd want to make a career out of, but it would stabilize the situation, and you'd still have 80 hrs to explore alternatives.

Also, this probably isn't a popular HN approach, but if your pain is physical, you could try divine healing. Find a charismatic church and ask for prayer for healing; if it doesn't work, at least it'll probably be a new experience. If you're near Redding, CA, the Bethel Healing Rooms has hundreds of people that come every Saturday, and I personally know a number of people that have been healed. (Don't read too much on the web, though, there are a lot of opposition to Charismatics that are opposed because of doctrine and take stuff all out of context. All the naysayers are really motivated to make websites going into depth about all the failings, but all the people that have a great experience don't have a burning desire to create websites about it, so search results are really skewed.)

With respect to the chronic pain, I'd suggest some kind of embodied mindfulness practice to help alleviate the symptoms. I assume Western medicine has not been able to help you much on that front.

There are tons of techniques out there, some of which have been proven by scientists to help reduce the symptoms of chronic pain. I'd suggest you find someone qualified teacher, since doing some of these on your own might be dangerous.

If you are willing to go for something more out there, I'd recommend reading this book https://www.amazon.com/Meditation-Saved-My-Life-Tibetan/dp/1... (it's free on libgen). It's the story of a Tibetan monk which was tortured in a Chinese jail and developed gangrene in one of his ankles, which progressed to the point of almost killing him and destroyed his joint. Doctors kept pressuring to have his foot amputated, but he sensed it'd be the wrong choice. Eventually, he went into retreat in his apartment and practiced some techniques for healing he had been taught in Tibet. Within a year, his foot was mostly healed, and eventually his body somehow managed to grow a new ankle joint.

The book is not explicit about what he did, but the two main practices he alludes to are called "tsa lung" (moving energy through the body) and reciting the "Medicine Buddha" mantra. I think you'll need an instructor if you want to practice "Tsa Lung" (the monk in the book teaches it, but he moved to France). But Medicine Buddha mostly involves reciting mantras and should be safe.

I don't have a lot of personal experience with the Medicine Buddha mantra, but reciting another mantra ("om mani padme hum") and similar practices cured a chronic depression that lasted more than five years. Saying "cure" is a bit of an understatement, because my outlook on life has radically changed. My external circumstances have not changed a lot, but most of the internal turmoil has mostly subsided. So on the base of that, I am willing to consider the possibility that a monk might regrow a joint by reciting a mantra.

You don't have to believe in cosmic blue Buddhas (in fact, the official position is that they don't inherently exist, just like you and me). I think of these practices as a technology developed by a culture that put the mind at the front and center of their inquiry into the nature of reality.

Here's some references: - Medicine Buddha mantra (so you hear what it sounds like): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoGmifZperY - A more involved practice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on7kiQawZJ0

This second one is a more traditional presentation, so it might not be your cup of tea. But I am including it anyway just so you can get an explanation from someone qualified. Again, sorry if this is too out there. But again, I doubt you posted here because you wanted to hear the same answers you get anywhere else.

Hello,

Sorry to hear you are having a hard time. I suggest you find work as a contractor in backend work just to stabilize yourself financially.

Try not to take it too seriously, consult with your doctors on how to manage your pain and depression and any anxiety you may have from backend work.

Once you are stabilized and maybe have moved to a low cost of living area, you can take your time to find a more interesting job :)

Good luck.

I'm 39 and disabled in addition to being politically exposed (that is, a bunch of people whom I've never met know me by my real name and, for reasons so silly it is not worth getting into, utterly hate me) so I have some insight into your situation.

To start: this utterly sucks. If it makes you feel better, it's not as uncommon as people want to believe. It awaits probably half of the people here in middle age (meaning 40s and 50s) due to a mix of random bad luck and work stress. Unfortunately, there's no easy fix. Getting sick invariably damages your life, in our society, more than it should. Money problems are an absolute nightmare that cannot be understood except by people who have experienced them.

It is truly astonishing, in the United States, how quickly your life can turn to shit, and how readily our society will let it happen. If the 99 percent of people who will not inherit high positions in the corporate system realized this--if they realized that they are not protected by their educational paperwork or "professional network" (which will disappear as soon as they need it)--then our entire society would be overthrown (good riddance) in a few nights.

It's good that you have family you can live on, and you shouldn't be ashamed of the fact that you're in this situation, because it's not your fault (shame or guilt will just make it worse). Not everyone has that. I'm not saying that to make you feel bad about people who are worse off; I'm just stating a fact. People have come back from worse.. although the path is difficult and the odds are poor.

What happened with your consulting clients? Did you inform them of your situation, and were they understanding? Would you be able to use them as references? (If they say anything bad about you, you can argue that they're engaging in discriminatory communication and sue their dicks off... but, ideally, things would be in a state where they'd say good things.) Why wouldn't they have been accepting of your scaling down your hours?

The first thing you have to do is focus on your health, like nothing else matters. Easier said than done, I know. If you can improve your situation to the point where you can work 25, then 30, then 35 hours per week... then great. It might take a few years, though; health problems do not resolve quickly, especially later in life, and doubly-especially when bullshit survival pressures do not let up.

I think you and the corporate world are, to be frank about it, probably done. For all the claptrap about corporate "mission", the truth (that everyone knows but cannot speak) is that the work has no real purpose and it's all about the money (and ego and narcissism, but those are connected to the money and the ability to get it). When you become disabled, you're no longer in the running for the executive-level jobs that are the carrots dangled in front of the masses, and everyone knows it. So, the cunts up top will take your inability to work 70+ hours per week as an "attitude" problem rather than a justifiable concession to a hard medical need. You can draw out the process, document everything, and probably collect a better-than-typical severance when they eventually fire you... but I'm guessing this isn't the way you want to live. With or without severance (which is never enough, even if you played the disability endgame like a pro) getting fired every year still fucking sucks.

You could look at government jobs. There are a lot of jobs in the public sector that are "boring"--meaning there's a fair amount of bureaucracy, and you're not going to be flown to Hawaii after a product launch--but that will allow you to work from home, and scale back to part-time if/when you need to do so. (I'm guessing that your disability fluctuates, and there are times when you can work 40+ hours and times when not.) You're not going to make a ton of money, but (let's be honest) that's never going to happen for you (unless your disability spontaneously resolves, which I hope it does, but which can't be bet upon) in the corporate world either. Plus, while some government jobs are bureaucratic waste, there are a good number of them that actually serve useful social purposes, and give you something to think about other than your health.

The best strategy, if you can get it to work, is probably to find a "boring" (boring is good, because income is a utility and having it turned off fucking sucks) job with flexible hours where you can work from home. You'll need one with good medical benefits, too. The era in which you can bet your life on a dodgy startup (it didn't pan out the last time) is over.

Good luck! You are certainly not alone in this. Infirmity happens to all of us; the only variation is in when it comes.

> in the United States, how quickly your life can turn to shit,

This is true, unfortunately. There is minimal social safety net in the USA for people like OP. This is partly due to the very independent, self-determination mindset that has pervaded in the US since its founding. US values hard work and perseverance. The moment you cannot work, you are treated poorly and are a second class citizen.

Showing you are willing to work, even if it's slow, is worth a lot. So I certainly echo the sentiments in other comments, start small and stay consistent.

I was going to mention government jobs as well. I'm not sure how good the US/state governments are with this, but in Canada the feds are extremely accommodating for any mental and physical illnesses.

You don't spend money on rent, but are still spending $1500/month? On what?

I'm guessing food, car payment, gas, insurance, it adds up. Also, your comment comes across as really inappropriate.

It's an appropriate question in a forum full of curious people, with no demonstrated animosity.

In the US it's really easy to spend $1500 a month even on medicine alone, not to mention food, electricity, etc.

In other countries, $1500 is minimum wage, and in others it's maximum wage for most people.

Making $1500 a month in Belarus, for example, puts you in the top 1% of everybody.

I think the parent's question may be insensitive, but not inappropriate. The core problem OP seems to be facing is a mismatch between their incoming and outgoing cash flows. If we take it as given that they cannot work, e.g. that their incoming flows are fixed, then I think it's a natural step to examine ways to decrease their outgoing flows.

Of course, that oversimplifies the problem somewhat, since any changes could worsen the situation overall, e.g. decreased mental health. Sitting in a bare room paid for by someone else and watching the wallpaper peel away has very little out of pocket cost, after all.

The counterargument is that homelessness and loss of medication would probably be far worse -- for example, it could be wiser to sell the car and live an ascetic lifestyle for 16-24 months until the disability appeals are processed, at which point the OP could return to an equilibrium. Stretching out the runway, so to speak.

Forming any actionable advice in this vein is impossible without a better understanding of the OP's costs, however.

How is my question inappropriate?

In any case, selling his/her car seems like an easy way to cut costs.

However it sounds like medical costs are the culprit, which was the intention of my question.

Probably mostly meds if in the US; US citizens don't have access to cheap generic medications nor universal healthcare so something like chronic pain can cost a lot out of pocket.

My co-pays for meds and visits are about 1/3 of my budget.

Have you tried this: https://costplusdrugs.com/

Now you go on welfare and find a $400/month apartment in rural Nebraska

This is unnecessarily mean.

If you don't have anything good to contribute at least don't be a dick to others. Life can turn on a dime and any of us could be in a similar situation.

The question is "Can you program"?

If the answer is "Yes", then stop watching TV, playing video games and lurking on the internet.

Honestly, this will sound heartless, but if you can play video games you can also work. The problem is more in your head and you need to shed the victim thinking and start focusing on what valuable you can do.

Even if your output is less than it was before, you can probably pay for a reasonable lifestyle.

Right now there is a lot of huge companies that will hire anybody that can code anything. Trust me on this. It is total seller's market. There are people who can't code and still get the job.

You say you are burned backend-centered web developer? You can probably get hired for full time, less ambitious job or contract and do your job in a fraction of time. The key word is "Less Ambitious". Which should help with your burnout. Just put a very strict work time / free time boundaries.

My burnout comes when I can't leave work even when I am at home and the solution is to give yourself permission to have time off. It is all in your mind.

This advice is not particularly effective. Getting hired into a backend firm is tough as all of them want the same things, if you don’t have those things - then getting a company to “yes” is hard.

People watch tv and play video games because they do not have a high mental demand. If you are on pain medication, or going without - your “free” mental cycles may be non existent

When I was burned out I got hired into a large bank (think Citi, Credit Suisse, maybe not necessarily Goldman Sachs which has high standards).

They have huge amount of backend. Super slow development filled with people who do not have large ambitions and only express them so that they are not labeled as waste. My principal developer was a woman from India who could not write a loop. She worked there for 6 years. Deadlines are not deadlines, only suggestions (just make sure you are not working for a team that has regulatory deadlines).

Perfect place for a person that wants to just get by with as little effort as possible. You don't even have to think bad about it -- as long as you know how to code and are doing slow, steady, honest progress you probably are doing more than most of people working there.

As to playing video games -- yes, they have high mental demand. The only difference between solving problems while playing the game and solving problems in IDE is your will power. Games are fun and work not necessarily.

When I was burned out I would not do anything. I would lie still and do nothing because I had no willingness to. I think if you can play games you can also sit by the computer and do other things.

> As to playing video games -- yes, they have high mental demand. The only difference between solving problems while playing the game and solving problems in IDE is your will power.

This isn't really true.

Disregarding the fact that the mental demands of software engineering work and games can be of different kinds, there is also absolutely a difference in volition.

Games are played voluntarily, and there's generally no external pressure (at least in single player games). Facing demands at work -- or even having the obligation to show up -- is not voluntary. You can also switch games at will. You can stop playing at will. Most people can't do those at work, at least not to the extent that one would actually feel free to do so.

Whether you've got a sense of control and are doing things voluntarily, or whether you're doing the same things because you are or feel forced or obliged to, can AFAIK show up as actual differences in your neural activity (with stress-related areas being more active in the latter case).

Anecdotally, and based on personal experience, burnout can also seriously turn things you used to enjoy into something that triggers immediate anxiety and (malignant) stress. That might be similar to the difference in volition if an activity that used to be within your control and more or less your own choice turns into a malignant stress-inducing forced one. At least it certainly doesn't help if you're both feeling forced to do something you don't feel is within your control and getting a massive stress spike out of even thinking about it.

If you want to twist that, you could still technically say it's in your head, but it can be an actual physical difference.

You're not wrong about all the things you're saying. Finding a place with lower actual demands, and settling with that at least for the time being, might actually be a good idea for OP. It's quite possible that OP might have a much greater chance at landing such a job than it feels right now. It's quite possible that some things actually aren't as bad as they feel to them right now.

But saying someone is capable of doing a mentally (and, in burnout, probably emotionally) taxing thing A because they're capable of doing thing B that may or may not also be mentally taxing in a similar or different way isn't quite right.

And pinning things onto the will power of a burned out person can be outright dangerous.

I have no reason to doubt your personal experiences, but other people's experiences with burnout can be rather different from yours.

My friend, I am very sorry. Focus on what you can do right now. The first thing you can do is work hard to find joy in every day of life. Yes, it exists, and yes, you have to look for it. This will help you turn around your depression.

My wife found joy every day even though she was terminally ill, and I'd be remiss not to point you to the same place where she learned to find it:

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/living-with-...

If you want, you can email me to my username@gmail.com and I will send you her Instagram feed which is still online and you will see what she went through and how she stayed positive, peaceful, and even happy despite her awful ordeal.

Lastly, you are more than the sum of your accomplishments. Your material needs are few, and your qualifications many. Get a job doing anything you can do from home, and just start grinding. Don't worry about trying to get back to where you were. Accept your new normal and work it like any other problem.

Hey, FYI, I initially flagged your post because I thought it was spam... thought JW had moved into the online version of door-to-door Watchtowering with drive-by evangelism.

But I was wrong, and I'm sorry. You're just a regular part of this community and your wife happens to have religious beliefs that helped her through tough times.

I apologize for jumping to conclusions, and I'm posting this response mostly so others don't make the same mistake and assume your post is spam.

JW is more likely to cause you to commit suicide than find happiness. I'm not sure we should be giving the benefit of the doubt to cults where the danger is well established.

https://www.dehek.com/general/health-wellness/escaping-suici...

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/03/18/j...

I appreciate that. I too hold those beliefs and they help me, but I'm not here to proselytize. I share what has helped, and if it helps somebody else that's great. We all hold beliefs of some kind, be they a differing religion or a philosophy that's helped us, and I see people share those all the time and that's all I'm doing as well. I appreciate your seeing it that way.

Jehova's Witnesses aren't a legitimate religion. They're a cult, and the parent comment to you is engaged in predatory behavior exactly of the sort any cult is known for.

You know, I get where you're coming from. One of my good friends was a disfellowed JW -- which is kinda like excommunication, except they're not just cut off from their church, but their community and family and friends too, altogether. This person had horror story upon horror story to tell about JWs. I certainly would never choose that path for myself.

However, I don't think I should be the one deciding what the OP is interested in or not. If they want a religious discussion they are free to follow up, or else they can ignore it. I just didn't want to erroneously mark it as spam.

<aside> Really though, what's the difference between a cult and a religion? The amount of real estate they own? Every mainstream religion presumably started from a small cult at some point. Yeah, there are some questionable JW practices and adherents who do shitty things, but you could say that about any religion, or really any group of people. As an agnostic outsider who never believed in any religion, they all seem kooky and silly to me, but I also recognize that they fulfill deeply-rooted human needs for belonging and meaning.

The OP is already in a rough place, between the chronic pain and the depression. It's not up to me censor their options. If they can find some respite and peace, be it in a religion or in mindfulness or in nature or in community or in harmless drugs, you know... good on 'em. As long as they're not hurting themselves or others in the process, not my place to judge how they find solace.

Our society is so obsessed with materialism and the worship of greed that sometimes even just asking people to consider other spheres of being -- spirituality, community, personal meaning, whatever -- might open up avenues they wouldn't even have considered otherwise. IMO, when you're truly desperate, no option should be off the table.

But of course others are free to disagree, and I'm also glad the OP is getting informed about the downsides of JW so they can make a balanced opinion of their own. </aside>

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