I don't think a sudden layoff at any time is an assurance for workers in the sense that it is better to pretend everything is Ok until it isn't.
I'm kind of tired of seeing this "well actually, in Europe..." -- there's a reason there's zero major tech innovation happening in Europe. There's a reason Google/FB/Netflix/etc. and 99% of other major software unicorns (save Spotify and handful of others) are from the US. To be successful as a company, you need to be nimble, not burn your runway with bureaucracy.
Working for a startup is a risk and money, for the time being, is very tight.
ie “#2 in the US is Stripe, the company that lets you pay on a credit card. Not sure if I’d be trumpeting that as innovative!”
Thanks for telling us you know nothing about Europe.
You going to tell us the US tech market is not boggled down by bureaucracy? Surely you jest. Do you need a reminder who sets the trend for the remainder of the market?
And as for unicorns, we may have few of them but we have many, many profitable and innovative companies that stick around for the long term.
You don’t think any of that has to do with the employment contract?
>You don’t think any of that has to do with the employment contract?
The Netherlands has a legal notice period of 1 month baseline. Despite that, many companies opt for a longer employee notice period, which then requires them to double that amount from their side. Doesn't sound like the employment contract is at fault here as much as the risk-averse culture, when nothing is keeping these companies from keeping the notice period shorter. Surely, a talented developer does not have to worry about finding a new job so much it requires more than a month.
God forbid I mention Japan, which despite still using fax machines and having similar structures, still produces plenty of global products. Unless your idea of tech is "just software".
It's not as simple as you try to imply. Spend a bit more time doing research between what is legally required, what employers offer and what developers realistically need.
What's the layoff policy in Japan? I would say it used to be 'never' and that hasn't been the case for some time, but a lot of the innovation ramp for them occurred before the 90's recession that started breaking the social contracts, so that isn't really a point in dvt's favor.
Culture definitely plays a role here, as does need (see also the Netherlands who send consultants worldwide to talk about water management). People like to talk about how different Scandinavian culture is from American culture, but from what I know of Japanese culture, it's at least as far away from say Norway as Norway is away from America. So if dvt thinks that Europe is missing some secret sauce and not just American Exceptionalism, I would say that Japan has substituted a different sauce to good effect.
Layoffs can still occur for economic reasons, but that's the same as in Europe.
>not just American Exceptionalism
There is very little "exceptional" about America in and of itself. What America has, is a lot of cash to throw at getting exceptional people and mess around forever. When your markets are huge, you can throw huge money and gain it back. When your markets are small, you can't.
Which then comes back to the question "so why don't European countries target the English market like the US does? Why care for your local market if you can make much bigger money targeting the global one?". And unfortunately, I don't know why beyond risk-aversity, culture and "that's just how it went". At least in Japan, the Japanese-only market is still far bigger than most [insert non-English European language]-only markets.
Point being, if dvt is arguing "it is the bureaucracy!", that doesn't explain why Japan works, China works, and why Europe tech scene continues to import bureaucracy-heavy approaches from the US tech scene, like you know, big Agile.
I had to listen to too many rants about the quality of Tim Berners Lee's code to allow that he invented the web. I place too high a premium on execution, which is a big part of my problem with IP and patents. You made a box. Congratufuckinglations. Can you make a million of them? And not chop anyone's fingers off?
If the web were the automobile, he's no living embodiment of Rudolf Diesel. Maybe closer to a valued employee of James Watt. He was channeling Engelbart, channeling Bush, and stuffing it into SGML.
Rudolf Diesel, there's a European inventor. We went a little crazy with that car thing. Sorry about that.
Edit: That was also 30 years ago for the one, 40 for the other. That's quite a long time. Whole countries have cycled though low-end tech to innovator to resting on their laurels in that time.
It's important to note that this is typically a legal requirement (e.g. the requirement to consult prior to redundancy in the UK) rather than something typically done out of any good-will by the companies/employers.
Since businesses haven't managed to lobby such legislation requirements in for workers to give notice (largely because at-will is typically beneficial to them) and just use contract law where it matters (public personalities, etc.) you can just show up and quit legally, without legal repercussions.
With that said, cultural protections have been put into place under job history in the application process. If I were to show up and without a very good reason tell me employer I quit effective immediately, I can do so unlike the European cases described.
But is this really freedom or an illusion of freedom? Many in the US are living paycheck-to-paycheck to survive. They're financially leveraged and can't really just quit, they need to line up an opportunity and have minimal savings to protect them. For them they can make the choice but it's a bad choice for them and most of the time they won't. Businesses know this and leverage it. The pandemic labor market offered a shift in this giving some bargaining power back to labor but it seems to be clawing right back to businesses again, probably for quite some time.
In what are classified as more professional positions, you're expected to give 2-weeks notice. Many employers request references and if you're honest during your interview, leaving without notice in most cases will require a good explanation and a competent interviewer, otherwise you're a red flag no hire almost immediately and there's a pool of others behind you without said red flag. So, I could quit tomorrow, but I'd have to be very careful with my next employer as to how I go about referencing my previous work, why I left, etc. In most cases I can't really just show up and quit, I need to give notice and wait. Perhaps that's not as long as some European countries closer to the order of 4 weeks IIRC but it's not as free as it might appear to be for the majority of laborers.