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Comment by ggm | Hacker News Reader

Mixed. There are conflicting views on Neonicotinoids. Varoa mite is a huge problem, we're going to euthenase millions of bees in NSW because of an outbreak and the almond harvest in particular is now at risk.

The anecdotes about "bugs on the windscreen and the bonnet" driving around really resonate to me. There are far, far less casual bug splatters per car these days, and I cannot but think this ties back to a reduction in small insectivore populations too: we killed the bugs, the birds and lizards which depend on them are dying too.

Cycling in scotland in the 70s I could come home covered in black dots. I don't know if the midge problem is as big or not these days. I know out beyond the ranges in Australia, in the bush, its still hand flapping to keep the buggers out of your face but closer to the towns, the immediate rural areas around cities, I sense less insects overall.

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I don't think the view on neonicotinoids is mixed in any useful sense. They are definitely harming bees (and many other insects almost certainly), it's a small question on whether they are doing so in a sustainable way, but the complex landscape in which this additional pesticide operates (amongst herbicides/air pollution/lack of habitat) means that it's almost impossible to quantify the exact impact neonic use has at large.

I highly recommend The Silent Earth by Dave Goulson for more. It's not a strident eco piece, I'd call it more of a lamentation, but it's also very clear headed and fairly detailed on the evidence and the issues around good science in this space.

Anecdote from Wisconsin. 30 years ago when driving across the state in summer I remember my father having to stop at gas stations to scrape bugs off the windshield. As a 40 year old, I have never had to do this. There also used to be so many fireflies I'd have jars full in a matter of minutes. I could count on my hands how many I've seen this year.

Shit is not good.

I installed a roof rack on my car recently, it's always full of bugs. The car itself is almost bug free.

It's possible that modern aerodynamic cars are better at avoiding bugs than old cars, although I don't know if this explains the whole difference.

I think it does. I don't remember the bugs being nearly so bad back in the 1960s and 1970s as they are now where I live, but I never have to clean off the windshield of my car. When I was a youth we would fight for the privilege of squeegeeing the windshield at every gas fill-up. Now, it's hard to go out without drawing a cloud and even the dog wants to stay inside in the summer.

I suspect automobile aerodynamics play a bigger role in the windscreen index reduction than ecological destruction does.

I'm sure aerodynamics play a part, but insect population decline is a very real issue. You (and your dog) may think you have a "bug problem" where you live, but the wider picture is grim.

https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/2019/february/the-world-... https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2023989118

I concur with this. I drove an RV for a period - possibly the least aerodynamic vehicle around. It was a losing battle to keep it remotely clean of bugs. Now driving in the same areas in a normal vehicle, it is a practically non existent problem.

The decline in insect populations is terrifying and real, but windshields are a bad way to measure it.

Consumer vehicles have benefitted from improvements in the process to make safety glass, and are substantially more aerodynamic than they were.

This leads to much less bug splatter, which is good! But it exaggerates the decline as well.

Unless you have an old car from the 70s (I did for a long time) and the results were the same.

Also, bumpers and grills were covered in moths, butterflies and grasshoppers, etc... when I was a kid. Not anymore, not for a long time.

Yeah, seems that fellow doesn't remember that old vehicles still run...

Also, I was hit by bugs around lakes and swamps just riding a bike. Walking some places was unbearable because of bugs my entire childhood.

They are almost all gone now, clear as can be.

Consumer vehicles have benefitted from improvements in the process to make safety glass, and are substantially more aerodynamic than they were.

In the 41 years since our VW Vanagon was made, the aerodynamic profile has not changed. And yet, while not measured with accuracy suitable for a lab report, we clean far fewer bugs of thing than years prior. As in, previously one might have to stop at a gas station just to clean the bugs off the windshield. Whereas these days, I'm actually surprised when a bug splats on the windshield.

That, and your premise is flawed to begin with: ...data showing that modern cars hit more bugs, perhaps because older models push a bigger layer of air – and insects – over the vehicle.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/feb/12/car-spla...

A comment here. It seems to me insects are all over the place in abandoned land. But here we have most of the land alongside the road planted (and sprayed I guess). Which is to say, farmers are killing bugs near their plantation. So, no surprise there.

With respect to neonics this article by the intercept [1] gives a pretty good overview on the tactics some other of the larger pesticide makers have used. It’s incredibly long but worth the read. Plus they provide links to a lot of primary sources throughout. It’s certainly strongly opinioned but I think mostly with reason.

I’d be curious about your opinion since it sounds like you may have some first or second hand experience with pesticides and varroa mites.

There is another article here [2] which talks about the tactics used with atrazine (not a neonic).

1: https://theintercept.com/2020/01/18/bees-insecticides-pestic...

2: https://100r.org/2013/06/pest-control-syngentas-secret-campa...

Anecdotes: When I was young, we would have to pull over to wash the bugs off the window at times during long trips. In my adult life that had never been an issue, except during lockdown when it seemed all wildlife had a resurgence.

I have to wonder if the lack of car travel just allowed the already existing animals to wander further into town, but birds made a big recovery. There are types of birds I jad never seen before now in flocks around the city. I hope they can survive now that it is busy again.

Remember that cars are far more aerodynamic these days too, so some bugs that would have gone splat 30 years ago now glide over

The midges are definitely still here. Not sure how it compares to the past, but I haven't heard anyone say they're getting better.

Ticks are certainly worse!

Can confirm, midges are just as bad as they've always been.

Once, while kilted one evening in Skye, I ended up with literally hundreds of midge bites all over my legs.

I f*cking hate midges :(

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