The popularity of country music in rural sub Saharan Africa | Hacker News Reader

The popularity of country music in rural sub Saharan Africa

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143 pointsblegh145 comments

Oh, man. So almost a decade ago I'm in Kampala, Uganda, staying in Muyenga, a neighborhood on the hillside above Lake Victoria. I've bought an adungu, a local instrument that's a sort of harp shaped like a sailboat. I bring it back to the apartment building I'm staying in and I start trying to figure out how to tune it and play it. Turns out it's generally tuned to chromatic C, so you can play anything that's in C or Am or G maybe, if it's simple.

The security guard for the apartments wanders over to where I'm sitting outside. I'm kind of playing whatever easy stuff I can figure out in C, like "No Woman No Cry" or whatever. He's sort of smiling and nodding the way people do when you're playing an instrument.

Then he says, out of the blue, "Do you know... Kenny Rogers?"

I'll be real honest with you, this is not a thing I'm expecting from a Ugandan dude.

"Yeah," I said, "sure."

"Do you know... 'The Gambler'?"

I allowed as how I was familiar with the composition in question. I Googled the lyrics and started playing it.

I have had a lot of weird moments in my life, but sitting on an apartment stoop in Uganda, watching a big electrical storm riding in over Lake Victoria, with this antelope hide ass harp thing, singing "You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em" while this little Ugandan security guard dude in a uniform delightedly sang along, clapping to the beat, may be the weirdest and most awesome one. <3

This reminds me of my young days when I happened to visit my grandpa's house during summer vacation. I had a habit of going for long walks during the cool evenings/early nights - one of those teenage things. On this particular night, I walked farther than usual and came upon a clearing next to the bank of the local river - it was a small river next to the tea gardens. This being a small town very long ago had next to no light pollution - the sky was FULL of stars. Just so many stars. As I walked ahead, I heard the sound of kirtan[0] coming from a hut nearby. I walked over and it was mainly working class folks gathered around few kerosene lamps singing. Just the chorus of simple folks singing devotional songs accompanied by a khol[1]. When I reached them, they continued their singing and just shifted to make space for me to sit - my arrival was as normal to them as the cool breeze blowing through the grass. I listened to the songs mixing with the night under countless stars, not sure for how long, and then quietly left, just like I had arrived.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaishnava_Padavali

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khol

This is beautiful man

Another interesting African music genre: Desert Blues [1], which mostly comes out of the Western Sahara. I like this example (Title: Tinariwen (+IO:I) - Ténéré Tàqqàl (what has become of the Ténéré) ) [2]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_blues

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boiiiVh52v4

Worth noting Ali Farka Toure (the first name mentioned in the 'Desert Blues' link) didn't like people calling his music 'blues' at all - for instance see [0]

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/news/2006/mar/08/guardianobituar...

From your linked article:

His work certainly echoed the blues - and, in particular, the playing of John Lee Hooker - but it was a comparison that first boosted his career, and then infuriated him. He told me that he played African music, not blues, and that "this music has been taken from here. I play traditional music and I don't know what blues is. For me, blues is a type of soap powder."

Haha wow, that's definitely worth noting

I was introduced to this music in 2009 or so and it's been a consistent part of my musical diet since then. I remember reading the blog post about Music from Saharan Cellphones and the method of getting the songs. I found this relevant comment on the Sahel Sounds post from 2010:

"In the effort of cultural exchange, I traded for a few Townes Van Zandt albums; we’ll see if they’ve survived next time I’m back in Kidal." https://sahelsounds.com/2010/10/tracklist-from-music-from-sa...

https://sahelsoundscompilations.bandcamp.com/

Sahel's Bandcamp is full of such compilations! Including the recently released "Music from Saharan WhatsApp" https://sahelsoundscompilations.bandcamp.com/album/music-fro...

These little vignettes into music communities brings me a lot of joy.

I just saw that! I wish I hadn't missed those sessions.

I recently wrote about finding music communities through the internet in 2000 or so. One of the fascinating views into completely foreign places was through the punk music found by Tam89 records.

https://tam89records.bandcamp.com/ https://www.maximumrocknroll.com/blast-from-the-past-luk-haa...

Yeah the region has some incredible stuff. If you've never heard it before the master musicians of jajouka are pretty great. The way it builds up is just amazing [1]

Sub-saharan music with similar influences like Ghanaian Hi-life is also really cool [2]. I think the first time I heard any of it was actually starting off a DJ set of mostly electronic stuff, but it fit really well [3]

There's a pretty good curation of stuff over at Awesome Tapes From Africa as well [4]

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjQefHjLSTo

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0KPmzb9gHY

[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEyWIqQCTWk

[4] https://www.youtube.com/c/AwesomeTapesFromAfrica

I'll add my own favorite to the list. I dont like dancing but this song makes me want to dance:

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLLU6bzks7A

Some more:

[2, live] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIUbWnxxfuM

[3, live] https://youtu.be/0s6WjkNlzK4?t=67

Still one of my favourite "music videos": https://vimeo.com/83776166 (unfortunately need to login to Vimeo to view). Music from Mali ist really nice.

Also check Bombino

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B9z17eZv5WA

Loved that, thanks!

This is interesting, because country music is very popular in aboriginal Australia too. Further reading: https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.abc.net.au/news/201...

The one that really threw me is that American country music is very popular in France.

I have never been, so naturally I am sure my view of the place and the people is skewed.

It is my understanding that the American country music industry employs much more specialization of labor (e.g. performers / lyricists / composers are all different people) than other American genres, so I generally expect the quality to be higher.

My sister and I both love country music. My dad is very vocal about how much he hates it, but his reasons have nothing to do with the quality of the music - they are purely cultural. Country music is part of the South, and like any member of respectable Californian society he believes that the South is evil. This does not leave room to enjoy Southern music.

But I suspect that overseas they are more likely to view country music through the same lens as "America", having no specific concept of "despicable Southerners".

>But I suspect that overseas they are more likely to view country music through the same lens as "America", having no specific concept of "despicable Southerners".

I think you're going to find that the rest of the world is going to have much more commonality in social cultural viewpoints of the American South than with California.

But that doesn't matter if they can't tell the difference between California and the South in the first place.

Another commenter in this thread mentions the popularity of country music in France, which would appear to be more on the California end of things.

Depends on what part of France. I'm sure French farmers will find quite a bit in common with American farmers. I'd be surprised if country music is popular among Parisians.

A lot of country music came from California, although from the parts of it (like Bakersfield) that were more Southern then, not very popular with the rest of the state now, and have meth and gun violence problems.

The South is as much a region as a set of attitudes.

There are certainly rural parts of California which are Southern in that sense, just like Ohio is very Southern in that sense.

You will find proud Southerners less than 100 miles from Chicago in fact. That includes (light, but perceptible) southern accents.

Not just that, but someone hugely popular like George Strait will record albums with session players and then tour with his regular band.

I’m sure that happens with pop music as well, but it’s not something that people are open about.

I lived in Tanzania for a few years and while riding an absolutely packed daladala (minibus), I heard over the radio Lee Greenwood belt "...and I'm proud to be an American!" I was so confused, but smiling, but so confused.

American country music buff here. Until recently Ghanaian music was mostly about the lyrics—it was impossible to make music that didn’t have great lyrics about love, life, work, religion, you name it. Music was a great instructor in traditional values. For lovers of the old music American country music fits right in since it’s probably the only(?) music export from the US that doesn't glorify crime, debauchery, all the non-traditional African values. I've lost count of the number of times music lyrics have suggested themselves in critical times for me: when apologizing, showing appreciation, expressing love, offering consolation, offering encouragement, you name it.

As another American country music buff, all my favorite country songs glorify crime, debauchery, and non-traditional values. I guess that is another great thing about the genre... its breadth.

A fantastic observation, and a sad indictment on modern American culture.

What do you mean modern? And American?

Such music has a long history. For instance Mozart's "Leck mich im Arsch" from 1782 [1]. The title is German for "Lick me in the ass". Or Bach's cantata "Schweigt stille, plaudert nicht" (German for "Be still, stop chattering") which glorifies addiction to coffee [2]. (Turn on closed captioning to see an English translation).

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C78HBp-Youk

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nifUBDgPhl4

I realized I was in love with my now wife (we had been on a few dates at that point) while in the car listening to a country song.

I like other music fine, but I’m to old to relate to any of it.

>> For lovers of the old music American country music fits right in since it’s probably the only(?) music export from the US that doesn't glorify crime, debauchery

Early one morning while making the rounds

I took a shot of cocaine and I shot my woman down

Went right home and I went to bed

I stuck that loving 44 beneath my head

6 in the morning, police at my door

I read the Johnny Cash lines in the same cadence as Schooly D or Ice T. No idea if it's the same, never heard the Johnny Cash song

Sounds like we need a mash-up.

There's a Cash/Eazy-E one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2zlIIcH7SY

There's certainly country music about those things, or at least there's a lot about drinking and doing drugs.

But if you hide all the references under a layer of irony, people can just not notice it and be happy.

If I get stoned, I’m just carrying on an old family tradition.

I’ll raise you his son’s words:

    Because I'm drinkin', druggin': I'm havin' lots of fun
    I always carry round my loaded shotgun
    If I think I'm gonna have a bad time
    I got a little bit of smoke an' a whole lotta wine

Or better yet:

    Well, there's blood on the carpet an' holes in the walls 
    Well, it must've been them pills I took 
    Yeah, the mirrors are all busted an' someone's cryin' 
    It must've been them pills I took

> For lovers of the old music American country music fits right in since it’s probably the only(?) music export from the US that doesn't glorify crime, debauchery, all the non-traditional African values

Since the 90s I recall country music being full of cheating on your girl, getting drunk, kicking someone's ass, and so on. Other pop music is more about getting girls in the club or whatever, but country has fairly similar lyrical content.

Or shooting a man in Reno, just to watch him die.

Everyone always brings this song up. It's very clear that Cash is playing a character of a foolish and almost-repentant criminal in the song; traditional American music records were half morality plays on rogues and half religious pleas for virtue.

It is an unfair comparison to modern hip-hop, which is primarily warrior bragodoccio. Go to WorldStar if you want to see.

Hip hop isn’t all top 20 pop hits.

I’d hope country fans also wouldn’t want their genre being judged solely by what’s being churned on the radio.

Perhaps not, but it's extremely telling that most popular hip-hop songs almost all contain explicit claims that the artist committed many violent felonies, loves committing them, and will commit them again, whereas people have to dig in country music for examples of the artist claiming that they themselves actually killed or hurt someone, and when they find those examples they're always obviously playing a character.

My main point is that the equivocation of Folsom Prison Blues with violent popular hip-hop today is ridiculous. If someone wants to compare it to Dance With the Devil or or The Story of OJ or Just to Get a Rep, that's fine, but that's not the context that people usually bring up FPB in. Violence and criminality in country music very rarely touches the rhapsodic and elevated status it achieves every week in popular hip-hop, and to pretend it does so often and that they're perfectly comparable is disingenuous.

Literally the only modern country I hear on the radio involves being drunk and cheating on and fighting with your woman.

Comparing certified classics of any genre from half a century ago to slop churned out today, ignoring the fact most of it will be forgotten and new classics will rise up, is weird.

Even if it were the case that all modern music is about drinking and cheating (which if is not; according to Billboard, the most recent #1 country song is about some things lasting forever, whereas the recent #1 hip-hop songs has a bridge about 'spinning the block'), getting drunk and cheating on your woman isn't anywhere near as serious as bragging about murdering your enemies and slinging hard drugs.

This ridiculous equivalence between popular country and popular hip-hop should end. The two genres are made for entirely different social classes of people for entirely different reasons. The number of popular songs unironically glorifying violence in hip-hop is much, much higher than the number of songs unironically glorifying violence in country. The original commenter was correct.

Don't see what the difference is between Cash and Gang Starr's Just to get a Rep.

Here's where it ends up, that's the story and that's the song. There's some bragodoccio in it, both Cash and Gang Starr.

Just to get a Rep is a morality play.

Yes, that would be a clever comparison, if that's the sort of hip-hop that's become popular internationally. How about Cash and a modern rapper that people today have actually heard of, as the original commenter is talking about? Please, go to WorldStar and grab one of the top songs and then try to equate Folsom Prison Blues with it.

As a matter of fact, I'll start. Here's "Holy Ghost" by Future, one of the most popular artists alive right now:

> Feeling like a cigarette boat, all this water on me

> I was at my big truck, my wrist up, gettin' my dick sucked

> When I switch my wrist up, switch my car, switch my bitch up

> Every time I hit her, I broke her off then dismissed her

> I been counting this paper all day, I'm getting blisters

> Roadkill, every time I pop out in a new whip

> Gettin' you wacked, niggas ain't running off with my new drip

> Rolls hit, lights hit, platinum set, overkill

And here's Cash:

> When I was just a young boy, my mama told me son

> Always be a good boy, don't ever play with guns

> But I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die

> Now I hear that train a rollin', I hang my head and cry

Wow, so similar. You can really see how they're both speaking the same language overall and have the same effect on society and their listeners.

To be clear, I am sure that you can find nakedly self-indulgent and violent country music if you look hard for it. But you won't find it on the top of the country charts. You don't have to look hard at all to find outrageously vulgar, explicit, and criminal hip-hop. People need to stop pretending that Folsom Prison Blues holds the same place in culture that "Holy Ghost" and its ilk does because it tells the story of a man who shot someone.

>> Feeling like a cigarette boat, all this water on me

What's your problem with that lyric?

I actually liked his dancing better than the "line dancing" people do in the US.

In the early 60s, Ray Charles put out "Modern Sounds in Country and Western Music" [1] and people were shocked. But he just liked it.

[1] https://www.discogs.com/master/141586-Ray-Charles-Modern-Sou...

A lot of people don't really know it, but American country music is the most commercially successful music genre worldwide and is popular in places such as southeast Asia, Mongolia, sub Saharan Africa, even India and Latin america. Europeans and city dwelling Americans love to shit on it but the world loves it, probably because it's easy to relate to lyrically and uses pleasant melodies and simple to follow rhythms. Love, heartbreak and agriculture are pretty much universal.

> American country music is the most commercially successful music genre worldwide

[citation needed]

> even India

Yeah, no. Unless you are using a very liberal definition of popular. American music is a niche in India and country music is a niche within a niche. Rock, pop and hip-hop are far more popular.

"Popular" just means that a lot of people like it. That's a pretty run of the mill use of the term. It doesn't mean it's a major cultural trend in a country. I just said it's pretty popular worldwide.

No, you said it's the "most commercially successful music genre".

I'd love to see a citation for both the claim you wanted a citation for and for your claim.

I sat in a Pizza Hut in CP Delhi loudly playing country music.

American songs play on everybody’s instagram stories. Not super niche.

And I sat in a chain coffee shop in Hyderabad that played the Brandenburg Concertos in a loop. I still wouldn't claim there's a Bach Revival underway in India.

pop music in general is somewhat popular specially in the bigger cities in India. never heard country music playing anywhere though, dont think its that popular as you claim.

local music (bollywood number, south indian film industry etc) is expectedly far more widespread and american music pales in comparison in terms of popularity

I found it funny when I was growing up that my dad (Bangladeshi) listened to country music. I was more of a Dave Matthew’s guy, but as a dad myself now my dial is also stuck on WMZQ. It’s simple and easy to relate to.

I think we have the same dad.

Maybe a few of these dads lol: https://mobile.twitter.com/preetbharara/status/1421629416342...

(What I love about this Tweet is that Preet isn’t using this meme correctly.)

As someone who lives in a city, shitting on country music is not something that has ever crossed my mind

I've seen it. I've also seen people talk down classical, disco and a few other genres at various points in my life. It seems there's always an uncool genre of the day. Which is a shame as people are simply limiting themselves.

Different eras of country music have different themes, values and styles, just like jazz and rock. That said, I heard some country music last weekend with a trap beat straight out of Outkast's Stankonia and it was... disconcerting.

disco, nu metal probably the two most hated genres

It's actually interesting to look at reviews of disco music on RateYourMusic going past the last decade. You might notice a pattern of the older reviews criticizing it as vapid and cheesy, while the newer reviews praise it as danceable and fun.

I think we're finally brushing off the excessive dismissal of the form, probably in no small part to the rock-worshipping generations being drowned out by the newer generations that have no such allegiances.

There are many repetitive lyrical themes that seem to be associated with particular genres, and personal preferences associated thereof. I feel like country used to have more variety- my father used to listened to it- but it's kind of coalesced into "I drank a bottle of whiskey and cried in my pickup truck when you left me" which isn't really my thing. Whereas I'm kind of ok with every power metal song being some variation of "fire! dragons! swords!". The things that aren't really stand out though, such as Kamelot's concept albums Epica and The Black Halo, which are based on Faust. There's also Van Canto which is a rather impressive German a capella power metal band (with a live drummer). In general, power metal seems to be more self-aware of how ridiculous and repetitive it is. See Gloryhammer, which is effectively a power metal parody band, taking the lyrical absurdity up a notch and replacing dragons with unicorns etc.

If there's any self-referential/parody country music out there I'd actually be curious to hear to it.

Do they imitate it in their own music? When I go looking for American influence in foreign pop music, most of what I find is usually hip-hop. Almost never country.

Check out Cambodian rock music. It came about during the Vietnam war from people listening to American radio broadcasts.

And then check out the American band Dengue Fever[0] which is influenced by Cambodian Rock which is influenced by American rock.

[0] https://denguefevermusic.com/

I think 'adapt' might be a better word, but absolutely they do.

I agree it's not as easy to find, I have a Thai country CD from the early Naughts in storage somewhere, I bet if you went with the right searches on your streaming source of choice you'd turn it up.

That's awesome. Again, I wasn't trying to be a dick (I drew a downvote at one point, for some reason, so I guess I was somehow?) it just seems that every time I've listened to a popular foreign radio station from Africa or the Pacific or Asia, the non-English stuff I've heard has either been plainly in some kind of "pop" category, or, even more often, hip-hop, never country, so I found it surprising that an overwhelming love of country music, abroad, hadn't already become evident to me.

Thai country music can be deceptive to foreign ears due to the almost standard rhythm that comes across as retro pop due to its usage of brass/electronic music. However, is it just that, a "base" that is similar sounding across every song - it is the lyrics are the meat of the thing which is a problem unless you speak the language.

Australian country music is a thing, look up eg Slim Dusty.

In Thailand, the local equivalent is luk thung.

Geoff Mack / Lucky Starr with the Original version of "I've been everywhere":

Mack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OZWi-mTkNU

Starr: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdxOy-TxWwE

> American country music is the most commercially successful music genre worldwide

Sorry I'm very skeptical about this claim. According to the recording industry's annual report Pop music continues to dominate and Country is not in the top 10 https://www.ifpi.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/IFPI-Engagin... (page 15)

Also, as a city dweller, why do people like you constantly attack us about everything? That feeling of persecution is destroying us.

Uh huh. From the paper reference:

> The study was carried out amongst a demographically representative sample of the online population aged 16-64 in the following territories: Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Mexico, Netherlands, New Zealand, Poland, Russia, South Africa, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, United Kingdom and United States. The study was also conducted in China and India but results from these two countries are not included in “global” figures due to the size and nature of these markets. In total, 43,000 internet users were surveyed with higher numbers of respondents in larger markets.

They literally just surveyed first world users and made no effort to control for class or other confounding factors that influence musical taste. This pretty much only tells us what first-world city-dwellers like, not the world generally. We're no closer to knowing whether country music is truly the most commercially successful music genre worldwide, but neither are we any closer to disproving it.

I googled a bunch, the highest I've seen Country listed is 4th globally, usually much lower. It's obvious to me that betwixthewires just made up his stat because he wanted to make a dumb point about clueless city dwellers.

It's also interesting because there's 5 examples of American country songs in those videos. One sung by Johnny Cash in the 60's, one written and sung by Dolly Parton in the 70's, two sung by Kenny Rogers in the 70's, and one co-written by Bob Dylan and Old Crow Medicine Show (which I suppose is country-adjacent). At least three of those are just famous in general, and most people would recognize them whether or not they're country fans.

Just looking at the five songs the Twitter user gives as examples of American country music in Africa, it doesn't look like contemporary country music has much of an impact there.

Yea those are just all-time popular songs loved by everyone, even "city dwellers".

Most folks globally (and domestically, tbh) probably know Wagon Wheel not from OCMS but from Darius Rucker who sang a cover that made it to #1 on the country charts.

> Also, as a city dweller, why do people like you constantly attack us about everything? That feeling of persecution is destroying us.

I read it as an attack on people who "like everything but rap and country", which I associated with teenagers' Facebook profiles in the 2000s, not so much city dwellers.

There's definitely some cities associated with country-like music too.

There's no attack intended, at all. I'm just pointing out that Europeans and american city people are insulated from recognizing it and I'm pointing that out because they're overrepresented online.

I upvoted you because I'm also skeptical about the object-level claim, but this is a little dramatic:

> Also, as a city dweller, why do people like you constantly attack us about everything? That feeling of persecution is destroying us.

Rural people can easily levy the same accusation in return.

Why is my comment more dramatic than saying city dwellers "love to shit on it"?

"Shitting on" a music genre is strictly less dramatic than "destroying" a group of people.

Is it not true that urbanites shit on country music? I've heard it happen numerous times.

Most country music is pop music. Also I'm skeptical of the list you linked because 80's and 90's isn't a genre.

Alt country is a thing. Cannot wait to hate on the inevitable mashup of country and hyperpop.

Who's people like me?

People that blame everything bad in the world on their fellow americans that live in cities who they feel they are in a death struggle with.

You seem to feel like you're in a death struggle with someone, and it isn't me. I'm not destroying you.

It's common to hear "I like everything except country" from people who live in cities, it's common to hear derisions of southerners and flyover country and inbred bumpkins and the like. People from cities do shit on it, it's a trend that exists, all I did was say it out loud.

> People that blame everything bad in the world on their fellow americans that live in cities

Not even close to what the comment was saying?

My Egyptian musician friend who loves country music explained it to me as being exotic sounding and uniquely American. He also really enjoys live music and there are a lot of country bars with talented musicians playing.

I’m an American who used to listen to a lot of country music. I have spent the last four years in South America and before that two years in France. I can’t remember a single time hearing American country music outside the US. I’m sure I have heard a song or two but I can assure you it is very rare.

Which parts of south east Asia? I mostly hear the same kinds of pop songs here in Singapore as they are playing on the radio in Europe.

Here in the Netherlands they love country music, both modern and older styles. I'm not sure what the connection is, but there was a local city-wide battle of the bands sort of thing here in my home town and _every_ band was playing bluegrass type music.

What are you talking about. American classical rock is popular the world over, especially the stuff from the 60s and 70s. No one listens to what Americans refer to as country music. Definitely not in the Middle East, India or Latin America.

I'm a city dwelling American and I love country music. I grew up not in the city, so that may help.

tl;dr - country music is for chicks and hicks, even hicks from other countries.

I would love to party with these people. I think that would be an awesome experience. A long time ago we used to meet up every weekend at an old boss's house to enjoy live music, good food, and to shake a leg on his outdoor dance floor. The beer would flow like water while a fiddle played old Bob Wills tunes and laughing people of all ages spun their partners or tried to steal a dance with someone else's. Many a blanket hit the ground out there. Good times.

I have to admit that I did not consider that I would see a video of people in Africa line dancing to Old Crow Medicine Show. I love their style of bluegrass and to see it getting this level of exposure is great because you can see the people dancing and enjoying it.

This post made me very happy. It was blistering hot outside today and the only shade was all under my son's vehicle where I am doing some maintenance for him. Listening to those short takes in that thread took all the edge off of the day and was reinvigorating. I really enjoyed that and now I have my work cut out for me tracking down some of this music for another Spotify collection that I can share with my kids.

There is a metal scene in Africa too.

https://www.anorak.co.uk/381262/celebrities/music-celebritie...

American country music has been heavily influenced by African Americans since the beginning (often without recognition, though that's starting to change.) The banjo is based on African instruments, and many musicians like Huddie Ledbetter, Elizabeth Cotten, Mississippi John Hurt, Arnold Shultz, and DeFord Bailey helped shape the genre. It's great to see this popularity in Africa--in a weird way, it's almost like coming full circle.

Maybe there was some cross pollination but the progenitors of country were the hillbilly folk music now now as bluegrass that is rooted in English, Scottish and Irish folk music. Banjos were adopted later, the original form was fiddle based.

All of the above. Country is heavily influenced by African American gospel and blues, but also the hillbilly roots you described. It's a fusion genre and that's beautiful.

But the "stolen without attribution" claim paints it negatively for little reason.

African Americans contributed; nothing was "stolen," as romantic of an idea to the chronically-oppressed may oppose.

I pick banjo and I've never heard anyone claim the banjo was "stolen". Especially not in this thread.

No one said stolen. Both GPs used the term influenced.

IIRC from a book I read on the blues, banjos had some early traction in and were introduced by blues music because they were indeed derived from West African instruments (built around gourds, complete with one shorter string like a banjo has) but the updated, new-world construction of the modern banjo (twangy, poor sustain) was better-suited to accompanying higher-pitched white voices, so ended up falling out of favor in the blues about the same time it was becoming standard in genres like bluegrass.

There is a lot of cross pollination of music genres in the US: "But the general consensus is that jazz is an American invention, born in New Orleans, Louisiana from the influences of traditional American work songs and French cajun instrumentation, including the standup bass, the Dixieland drum kit, and particularly, the cornet, an instrument invented in France in the 1820s similar to the trumpet."

From: https://moviewise.substack.com/p/a-short-history-of-jazz-in-...

I wouldn't worry about it not being recognized. Much of artistic inspiration is not attributed, as cross pollination is the norm. Once an artist makes something, it ceases to be theirs and becomes its own creation. Most of the time artists don't even realize where their inspiration comes from.

With the genres I'm familiar with there's clearly a lot of cross pollination between ethnic groups in the US and it's very hard to tell who "started it".

I feel pretty strongly that with music - disparate influences makes it better. Or maybe I just say that because I like detroit techno...

There's so much terrible country music out there that I admit put me off. But lately I've been listening to Townes Van Zandt and well... my god

If you like Townes Van Zandt you might like Jimmie Dale Gilmore as well. You may find the first songs by Gilmore too polished if you like the realism of Van Zandt's live recordings, as I think I probably would if I had discovered Gilmore later, but listen to "Dallas" or "Tonight I think I'm gonna go downtown" to get a sense of his good lyrics in my opinion. Happy to see someone else like Townes Van Zandt!

Somehow this ain't really all that surprising. American "cowboy" culture is nowadays pretty thoroughly whitewashed; in the actual days of the cow rustling gun slinging Wild West, cowboys were a lot more racially diverse than in their modern portrayals. Country music itself reflects this, combining elements of European, African, and Native folk styles.

I would wager that this came about as a result of the Internet. I can't imagine some record company deciding Africans would like country music and investing there. No the interest started first and then it pulled the record companies along.

Next question is when will country music stars start touring there?

The second and third tweets in that thread refute that hypothesis.

I was the first comment on the page. It's a shame at times like this we don't have time to the minute on our messages because then it would be apparent.

But that's OK because I learned something today. Apparently the Internet didn't have much influence over the popularity of country music worldwide.

It's been a trend since the 70s.

Who knows, maybe country music was all the rage on the ARPANET

Grew up in the caribbean and can say, american country music was fairly popular down island. Not sure if still so.

Reminds me a little of the Heavy Metal Gangs of the Aboriginal Outback town of Wadeye, Australia.

The whole area is segregated into different gangs, based on heavy metal bands allegiances.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBygHZTZM9Q

At least half of the songs in those videos aren’t really country as much as americana/folk/blues.

I lived in Burma for a while. Up in the north, line dancing is super popular.

Is the music in the clip considered country music? I always thought that was classical rock.

Another unexpected one: Celine Dion is INCREDIBLY popular in Senegal and The Gambia.

Off-topic:

I never understood why native English speakers use Sahara and desert and think they are different things. Sometimes they even say "Sahara desert".

Perhaps this explanation will help. When I hear the word 'Sahara' I think of a physical place, in northern Africa. When I hear the word 'desert' I think of an ecological system, characterized primarily by low rainfall and sandy soils. When I think of the physical place in northern Africa that is denoted (in my language) by the word 'Sahara', I think of it as being an exemplar of the ecological system denoted by the word 'desert'.

Near me, there's the Sonoran desert and the Great Basin desert. If I lived in eastern Asia I might think of the Gobi desert. There's many deserts. So while I take your point that 'Sahara', in a non-English language, denotes what I call in English 'desert', I would say that the phrase 'Sahara desert' could be interpreted to signify "the place on this planet, that could be characterized as having a desert ecosystem, that is described by the people who live nearby as 'Sahara'". For the people who do not know that 'Sahara' is used by some other people to denote what they think of when they say the word 'desert', the word 'desert' is not extraneous. But for you, who does, it is.

"When I hear the word 'Sahara' I think of a physical place, in northern Africa. When I hear the word 'desert' I think of an ecological system, characterized primarily by low rainfall and sandy soils."

I understand that... but Sahara means the latter in Arabic. Any desert is Sahara.

But Sahara doesn't mean desert in English...

Languages are littered with these kind of things. Like every language.

Desert doesn't mean Sahara in Arabic, and they never say Desert Sahara. Do you see my point?

It is just a small observation actually, not a big deal.

I understand your point, but not why you are surprised. If a non-Arabic speaker hears this place referred to as "sahara", why wouldn't other languages adopt it as "Sahara"?

My adjacent point is that this is very common: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tautological_place_nam...

Didn't know it is common, thanks for that reference.

That prompted me to look up what 'sahara' and 'desert' are in Arabic -

صحراء - Sahra' - Desert

الصحراء الكبرى - alsahra' alkubraa - The big desert?

What language are you coming from?

I am an Arab, that's why I always notice it. صحراء means desert, any desert, not a specific one.

Yeah I think English does tend to do that a lot to foreign loan words, that's pretty interesting though, I guess you learn something new every day. The Anglosphere probably isn't the most polyglot out of all the spheres of languages.

The same reason English speakers often say “chai tea”.

They speak English, not Arabic or Hindi, and those words haven’t been turned into loan words. Likely, because English has its own equivalent.

Yes, but that would mean it could be done from the other side too, English speaker say "Chai Tea", and an Arab speaker would say "Tea Chai", but AFAIK, they don't. Do Indians do that?

Because there are many deserts, and the Sahara desert is just one of them. There is the Gobi desert, Mojave desert, Kalahari desert etc.

Because country music is also black music.

And there have been Black, country musicians as long as country music has existed. But you wouldn’t know them because of the racist history of Nashville music industry.

But we’re talking about Africans, a culturally distinct group of people.

Hundreds of culturally distinct groups, I'm sure.

Edit: a quick search suggests as many as 3000. Either way, it's many distinct groups.

Of course, you’re right.

I am pretty sure Charley Pride is not obscure

Charley who?

Just a black country singer with 30 #1 hits and 4 Grammy awards.

He is even an award winner from the Scandinavian-American hall of fame. Pride is a legend in country music.

One of my favorites https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b5ZWRFr5ls

It's popular in Vietnam too, maybe you know why that is as well?

These are subsaharan Africans, not African Americans.

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